Schatz 49 suspension block screw

F

fmholly

I'm working on an abused Schatz 49 that is missing the thumb screw that attaches the top spring block to the hangar. Does anybody have advice on where to find a replacement?

I couldn't believe it - someone had wound the bob up probably hundreds of turns thinking that's what powered the clock - the suspension spring was spiralled all the way up (the mainspring was all the way down....)

Thanks for any help on the screw.

Forrest Holly
 

Joe Collins

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Hi Forrest,
This is the best place to look for 400 day clock parts.

The Horolovar Company
PO Box 264
St. Clair Shores, MI 48080
313-882-9380 or fax: 313-882-9381

Bill Ellison is the owner. Nice man to deal with.

Joe
 
J

John W

Hi, I'm new to this site, but am a bit of a 400 day clock enthusiast, if only an amateur. So far I've successfully restored 3 of these beauties, two of which keep perfect time, nad the third is getting there. Anyway, my reason for butting in here is to offer notice of a very good supplier here in the UK if you are having trouble with spares, they are called simply Clockspares and can be found here: https://www.clockspares.net/index.asp just put Horolovar in the search box and off you go...
 

shutterbug

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Your twisted suspension spring could be the original spring. They had that twisted look on purpose and it can throw you off when you're used to the new ones. It's a design thing, for looks, and will not effect the way the clock runs.
 

John Hubby

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Shutterbug,

Do you have any evidence of twisted suspension springs being original equipment? E.g., catalog photos or advertising photos.

I agree these clocks "can" operate with the suspeension looking like a corkscrew, but have yet to see anything to confirm they started life this way. My main interest is in historical reseach so if you do have something would sure like to see it.

John Hubby
 
F

fmholly

Thanks for the information. I got it running again with a new straight suspension spring - but am frustrated at the inability of my entry-level micrometer to distinguish among suspension-spring thicknesses, it's a tedious trial and error process to get it right!

Forrest
 

harold bain

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Forrest, you save yourself a lot of aggravation by not buying the assortment pack of springs. Far better to order the Horolovar 3 pack of the right size for your need.
Harold
 

shutterbug

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Pastimes - dang, I wish I'd kept one. I've seen several of these and just assumed they were common. Let me look through my supply of "new" old ones and if I find one I'll take some pics. I've also seen some with little balls running the length of the spring.
 

shutterbug

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Hey, I found one on one of the Kundo's in my personal collection. Note the even twist throughout the length. A twist from spinning the pendulum would appear uneven and eventually would loop. Rest assured that this clock is running quite well and the spring is functioning as it should.
67.jpg
http://static.flickr.com/42/74242205_3fa91fe58d_b.jpg
 

John Hubby

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Shutterbug,

I've also seen many like this but had always believed they were the result of some hyperactive kid giving the pendulum a spin. Just to be sure I just did one to see what would happen, and it looks exactly like the one in your picture, no irregulartity or loop-overs even with spinning about 40 revs.

Anyway . . if you can find a "new old stock" original with the twisted bottom part and a flat upper part where the fork and upper block fit, I would be very intersted to have it documented. Also, the one with little balls . . not seen that either.

John Hubby

PS: As a by-the-way, you can straighten out the curly-cues by counting the number of twists, then manually rotating the pendulum in the opposite direction until you have created the same number in that direction, then going back to the rest position for a check. You may have to make a few more twists in one or the other direction to get it completely straight but it "will" go back to normal with no effect on performance. I've done that several times with excellent results.
 

leeinv66

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Originally posted by pastimes:
I've also seen many like this but had always believed they were the result of some hyperactive kid giving the pendulum a spin./QUOTE]

Hi John, I have had one like this and yes it was the result of a hyperactive kid (my grandson). I managed to straighten it out by rotating it in the opposite direction while applying some downward force on the pendulum. I will try yout count method if there is a next time.

Cheers
Peter
 

dutch

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Hey Shutterbug,John and all,

I recently bought one with the suspension spr.twisted at least 40 times and the seller told me it was running. I thought to myself "YEAH SURE" but when I got it home I gave the pend. a push and sure enough it ran for a week before I got around to cleaning the clock and replacing the twisted spring. I kinda wish I had left it alone just to see how long it would have run.

Regards, Dutch
 

shutterbug

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I looked for one of the "ball" types I refered to but I don't have one in my collection. I have about 40 400 day clocks and my Kundo is the only one with the "twisted" spring. It's been running fine for a LONG time :0) If I get another one with the unique spring I'll post it here.
 

Joe Collins

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About a year ago I bought a S. Haller clock that came with instructions. Taped inside the instruction leaflet was a spare suspension spring. The spring on the clock was twisted like the one in Shutterbug's picture But.. the spare was flat! I have always assumed that the one on the clock started out flat also.

Joe
 

gromit

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If I knew how to attach a photo, I'd send you one of a suspension spring from a Kundo (Kieninger & Obergfell) showing that the spring not only has a regular twist built in, but has top and bottom blocks aligned perfectly, as though there were not twist at all!. I doubt that this would result from a "winding" of the pendulum.

Incidentally, has anyone figured out that "Kundo" is German for "K and O"? -- K und O.
 

Timm

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Ya, "K und O" ist Kieninger & Obergfell.

If you go to the clock forum, there are instructions on how to post pictures. Better yet, it's also at the top of this very page, just under the "NAWCC Emart".
 

John Hubby

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Gromit and all,

The reason the fork and upper block stay aligned is that when the pendulum is being spun around, the fork can only move as far as the anchor pin will let it. That's about 30 degrees, which is NOT beyond the elastic limit of the suspension spring material between the fork and upper block. From actual test, you need to twist the fork around at least 60 degrees to exceed the elastic limit and produce a "slight" twist in the spring segment between the fork and upper block.

When the pendulum quits spinning, since the elastic limit has not been exceeded the fork will return to its normal position and (most of the time) the clock will continue to run even though the suspension spring below the fork has been turned into a corkscrew. As I mentioned earlier, I have done this on purpose to check out what really happens.

Regarding twisted springs being original equipment, I am highly skeptical of that having ever happened. I have a large collection of original Schatz, Kundo, Kern, and other maker post-WW2 catalogs and technical material, and no mention is made of this "feature" in any of them. Charles Terwilliger made no comment whatever about this in the Horolovar 400-Day Clock Repair Guide, and he saw a LOT more 400-Day clocks "as shipped" from the makers than I ever will. Not only that, since he was "the" major producer of suspension springs in the 50's and onward, I don't think there is any way he would not have noticed such a feature and at least commented on it. Further, technical literature from "way back" strongly emphasizes the need to have a perfectly flat suspension spring to be able to properly regulate the clock.

I also am positive about the following:

1) Horolovar has never supplied corkscrew suspension springs. In an earlier post I mentioned that I never say never, but this is one time I can do that because I personally know the owner and have spoken with him on this subject.

2) I have opened "many" new old stock spare suspension spring packets from Kundo, Schatz, Kern, Koma, Kaiser, Reiner, Würthner, Haller, Nisshindo, and others and have yet to find a corkscrew original spring.

So . . unless and until someone shows up with an unopened original spare suspension spring packet and can show me X-rays that it is twisted, I'm going to say 'tain't so.

John Hubby

P.S.: In addition to "K und O" for Kieninger and Obergfell, there is also "KO MA" for Konrad Mauch and "HE CO" for Henry Coehler. Probably a few otheres as well.
 

shutterbug

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Incidentally, has anyone figured out that "Kundo" is German for "K and O"? -- K und O.
I find this quite interesting! Does one pronounce it like that as well?

I'm going to have to abandon my assumption that the twisted look was original and bow to Johns superior knowledge. However, I am positive about that beaded suspension spring I saw and wish I would have kept it. It was broken and I replaced it with a standard spring. Now I'm wondering if it too was an invention of some home tinkerer. I've seen monofiliment fishing line used as a suspension too :)
 

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