Samuel Terry Wooden Works Clocks

Discussion in 'Wood Movement Clocks' started by Sooth, Apr 30, 2007.

  1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  1. Sooth

    Sooth Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Feb 19, 2005
    3,899
    51
    48
    Cabinetmaker
    Cornwall, Ontario, Canada
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Hi, are Samuel Terry clocks hard to find (fairly "rare")?

    Seems to me that they might be (although from the info I've read, they arn't), simply because I can't seem to find more than one or two examples ANYWHERE (antiqueclockspriceguide, Horton's, Cottone, Google, eBay, members' personal collections, etc). I'm specifically looking for the column and splat type, like the one I just bought on eBay yesterday (see "Your Recent Acquisition" thread for pics).

    I have only found two similar clocks so far, and neither shows me the details I want to see. And neither has an original stnecilled tablet.

    Does anyone have one?
     
  2. swankyman

    swankyman Registered User

    Nov 5, 2006
    565
    1
    0
    A, A
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Sooth, I did a two month search and found this one item#130090006443 on eBay. Mark
     
  3. Sooth

    Sooth Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Feb 19, 2005
    3,899
    51
    48
    Cabinetmaker
    Cornwall, Ontario, Canada
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Thanks so much. I think this one is a different syle (columns are attached to the door). I'm still hoping to find more source photos to work with. The more the merrier.
     
  4. Sooth

    Sooth Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Feb 19, 2005
    3,899
    51
    48
    Cabinetmaker
    Cornwall, Ontario, Canada
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    I just found two more!
     
  5. Jeremy Woodoff

    Jeremy Woodoff Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Jun 30, 2002
    4,100
    53
    48
    Brooklyn
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    These long-case stenciled column & splat clocks often had mirrors in the bottom rather than painted tablets. An old (I think original) name for this type of clock was "bronzed looking-glass clock."

    Jeremy
     
  6. Joseph Bautsch

    Joseph Bautsch Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Dec 9, 2006
    1,113
    125
    63
    Male
    Retired
    Atlanta, GA
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Sooth - I have a Samuel Terry half column and splat with gold stenciling. It's has 30 hr wood movement. From the picture of your clock it looks exactly like mine. On mine the top is complete and the stenciling is in good shape as well. Unfortunately the reverse painting is just about gone. Only a few patches of color remain. Not enough to tell what was there. At one time it was a beautiful deep red mahogany veneer with black columns and splat stenciled in gold. I'll be glad to trade photographs and dimensions with you. Unfortunately my son has my camera right now and I'll be leaving for a vacation out west for three weeks in the early am tomorrow.

    The big problem my clock has is with the dial. The one I have is much too large and not the correct style. It is however in excellent condition. I will post a picture of it to see if anyone is interested in a trade for one of the smaller size I need. It's in such good condition I don't think I can bring my self to putting it on a table saw to cut it down to size.

    I've had this clock for many years. I knew when I bought it I was going to have to wait until I learned a lot more about the restoration process before I could lay hand on it. With the good advice of the people on this message board and your excellent demonstrations of restoration techniques this might be a good time to do this job.
     
  7. Sooth

    Sooth Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Feb 19, 2005
    3,899
    51
    48
    Cabinetmaker
    Cornwall, Ontario, Canada
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Joseph, that would be greatly appreciated. I am in no great rush, so when you get back, I will draw up plans showing which measurments I need.

    Photos of the stencilled top and glass (even if most of it is gone) would be immensely helpful. I can at least get a sense of what type of glass it originally had, and then find similar ones.

    And PLEASE, don't saw the dial! I'm sure someone would be happy to sawp one with you.
     
  8. Sooth

    Sooth Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Feb 19, 2005
    3,899
    51
    48
    Cabinetmaker
    Cornwall, Ontario, Canada
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Here is an elarged, and brightened photo of my clock (until it arrives, and I can take better photos).

    SamuelTerryBrightened.gif
     
  9. Jeremy Woodoff

    Jeremy Woodoff Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Jun 30, 2002
    4,100
    53
    48
    Brooklyn
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Sooth,

    There is a picture of a Samuel Terry pillar and splat clock on p. 41 of the Swedbergs' book "Encyclopedia of Antique American Clocks." It appears to be exactly the same case and label as your clock. The dial is different. The lower glass is a mirror. The splat has a stencil of a basket with flowers. It isn't a good photo, but the stenciling looks in very good shape--perhaps too good, especially since the stenciling on the columns is barely visible. The splat itself, however, looks correct. The mirror has lost some silvering near the bottom, leading me to think it is old and possibly original.

    Jeremy
     
  10. Sooth

    Sooth Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Feb 19, 2005
    3,899
    51
    48
    Cabinetmaker
    Cornwall, Ontario, Canada
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Jeremy, I don't have this book. I plan to use a mirror only if necessary. I believe most of these originally had painted tablets, and that MANY got broken and replaced with mirrors. Just because the silvering is flaking doesn't necessarily mean anything. The mirror could have been broken 10 years after the clock was bought, making the mirror at least from the 1840's or 50's.

    I do know that many did have mirrors originally, but from what I've seen, those are usually the type with the columns attached to the door (not always).

    I'm still anxiously awaiting this clock (it's in the mail).
     
  11. Jerome collector

    Jerome collector Registered User
    NAWCC Fellow NAWCC Member

    Sep 4, 2005
    834
    65
    28
    Geologist, US Army Corps of Engineers
    Omaha, NE
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    I can't speak for what Samuel Terry used for tablets on his clocks, but many, many of these clocks originally had mirrors. Jeremy is absolutely correct that when this style of clock was introduced, it was called a "bronzed looking-glass clock." Mirrors were not common at that time, and use of a mirror was a major selling point. I've never heard of a correlation between mirrors & painted tablets and columns on door & columns on case. That would be an interesting correlation, if there's data to back it up. In any event, it would not be inappropriate for you to use a painted tablet, particularly if you can find a Terry example to base it on.
     
  12. Joseph Bautsch

    Joseph Bautsch Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Dec 9, 2006
    1,113
    125
    63
    Male
    Retired
    Atlanta, GA
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Sooth - I am attaching the photos of my clock. There are 16 total so I will have to send them in two sets. The message board only allows eight to attached at one time. The measurements for the top brackets, blocks, and splat are as follows:

    Case - 16 1/16" High from the bottom to the top of the wood molding on the top of the Splat block. The width is 30 3/8".

    Splat - 12 7/8" long X 3 3/8" high at the top of the arch X 3/16" thick. the ends are 1 13/16" high. There is a 1" level area at the ends before the start of the curve for the arch.

    Splat End Blocks- 1 15/16" W X 1 15/16" High X 13/16" Thick. The slot for the splat is 3/16" X 3/16". The slot is set back 1/8" from the face. There is a notch cut in the back outside corner for the side support bracket which is 3/16" X 1/4". With the 1/4" cut being from the back to the front.

    Side Support Bracket - 4" Long X 1 15/16" High at the splat. The other end is 1" high. The lowest part of the curve is about 11/16" which is located at about 3/4 of the length from the back of its length. It's difficult to measure because the curve in the bracket evidently was hand carved.

    Side Bracket and Splat End Block Support Blocks - There are four support blocks. The one at the bottom of the splat block is 1" X 3/8" X 3/8". There is a vertical one in the corner of the splat block and the side bracket, 3/16" X 1/8" X 1 15/16" with a hand carved taper to a point at the top. The side bracket support block is 1 1/8" X 3/8" X 3/8". There is a slant cut in the length starting at 3/4" down to 1/8" of the end. The forth block iv vertical at the back end of the side bracket. It's 1" high X 1/2" wide X 3/8" thick. The slant cut starts at about 1/2" from the bottom down to 3/16" of the top end.

    Top Molding - The back of the molding is flat. The molding is cut in the face and both sides. Overall thickness is 3/8". The top level is 2 1/2" X 1 1/8". The second, or center level, is 1 1/16" X 1 1/4" X 1/16". The bottom is 1" X 2 1/8" X 1". Each level is 1/8" thick.

    The photos should give you a better ides of what the measurements look like. The right hand splat block is a replacement and not very well done. The measurements given here are from the left side which is original.

    The works are near mint. No cracks, splits, or broken teeth. I have some work to do on the case veneering. The biggest problem is with the door. The dial glass evidently broke at some time and someone cut the veneer to get the broken glass out and did some damage to the center bar. I'll have to repair that and replace all of the veneer around the door.
     

    Attached Files:

  13. Joseph Bautsch

    Joseph Bautsch Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Dec 9, 2006
    1,113
    125
    63
    Male
    Retired
    Atlanta, GA
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Rest of the pictures.
     

    Attached Files:

  14. Joseph Bautsch

    Joseph Bautsch Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Dec 9, 2006
    1,113
    125
    63
    Male
    Retired
    Atlanta, GA
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Two more pictures. The ones of the splat end block above are of the not very well done repair. The one attached here is of the original block. Also attached is a photo od the cap molding giving a better view of the shape.
     

    Attached Files:

  15. Joseph Bautsch

    Joseph Bautsch Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Dec 9, 2006
    1,113
    125
    63
    Male
    Retired
    Atlanta, GA
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Sooth - I saw what happened to your Samuel Terry in shipment. Disappointing to say the least. I wanted to bring this back to the top for you to see. I've attached photos of my Samuel Terry and provided a number of measurements. I know that this may not be on your front burner but take a look at what I sent and see if there in anything else you need.
     
  16. Sooth

    Sooth Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Feb 19, 2005
    3,899
    51
    48
    Cabinetmaker
    Cornwall, Ontario, Canada
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Wow, thanks for all the info and pics. I'm not quite sure what splat design I'm going to go with yet (there are 2-3 different ones used by Sam Terry), but I can definitely use the information on the size of the end blocks.

    I'm not quite sure when I'll be getting to this clock, but it's one of the more appealing clocks in my lot of fixer uppers, so it may get done fairly soon.

    I'll be sure to keep you posted.
     
  17. Joseph Bautsch

    Joseph Bautsch Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Dec 9, 2006
    1,113
    125
    63
    Male
    Retired
    Atlanta, GA
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Sooth - I won't have to cut that other dial I have afterall. I found a wooden dial with a 9" chapter ring at the national and it's a perfect fit. It does have a lot of the painting chipping off so I will have to have it restored. At the most I found a dozen wooden dials at the national mart and this was the only 9" chapter ring there.

    In any case this Samuel Terry is number three on my restoration list so it will be a little while before I can get started on it. I'll Keep you posted.
     
  18. Paul H

    Paul H Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Jun 23, 2005
    275
    6
    18
    Country Flag:
    Joe;

    What a wonderful project clock you have with your S Terry.

    It's nice to see originall stencilling in fairly good shape. However, I wonder if it was Monday Morning when some girl way back in time stencilled your splat. I've never seen one so far off center. But, it's things like that, that add character. And these old clocks definitley have character.

    I once bought an Ogee at auction that had just a little too much "character" though. After securing the winning bid, they brought me the clock (I think it was an EN Welch) and when I openned up the door I discovered that the label was originally installed up side down. I debated with myself and then decided to complain to the auctioneer that the clock was "not as described and offered" and got them to take it back. I have not regretted that decision.

    Sooth: Any luck on your insurance claim on your damaged S Terry??

    Paul
     
  19. Joseph Bautsch

    Joseph Bautsch Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Dec 9, 2006
    1,113
    125
    63
    Male
    Retired
    Atlanta, GA
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Paul - I think you are correct about the stenciling being a little off center. But that makes this one a little different from all the others. As you say it gives it chatracter and it's own identification. What may be contributing to the problem is the right hand splat block is a replacement and not very well made. The slot the splat fits into is too deep and may be adding to the look of the off center stenciling. When I get into the restoration I will probably remove that block and replace it with one that is correct in dimensions. The stenciling will still be off center but I plan to leave it that way.

    I have a pair of 9" Terry hands. Do you, or anyone else, know if the hour hand should have a bushing installed? If so any idea as to what size? Right now both hands have very small center holes that will have to be sized to fit.
     
  20. Sooth

    Sooth Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Feb 19, 2005
    3,899
    51
    48
    Cabinetmaker
    Cornwall, Ontario, Canada
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Paul, an insurance claim was filed, but I'm still very doubtful I'll get anything back. I had TWO other claims filed last year, and I called them several times about it, and I still haven't gotten compensation (the amount for both was around 300$ damage).

    Joe, yes the hour hand is bushed, and the bushing (unless I'm incorrect) is usually made from zinc pipe.

    It's a really large bushing. Maybe almost 3/8 across, but you will need to fit it to your movement.

    I can take some detailed photos of the one on my Boardman, but I had to resolder it, as it was loose.
     
  21. Joseph Bautsch

    Joseph Bautsch Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Dec 9, 2006
    1,113
    125
    63
    Male
    Retired
    Atlanta, GA
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Sooth - I don't have a hand bushing like that. Do you have any resource(s) where I can find one? Thanks, Joe
     
  22. Sooth

    Sooth Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Feb 19, 2005
    3,899
    51
    48
    Cabinetmaker
    Cornwall, Ontario, Canada
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Ummm, no. When it comes to things like this, you're kind of "screwed". Parts suppliers only carry certain things, and anything else, you need to make by yourself. Sometimes I really wish they carried more of the hard to find items that are often missing, but if there's not enough demand for it, they just can't justify the costs of manufacturing it.

    It is possible that there IS a place that carries these, but if there is, I don't know about it.

    I would suggest trying to make a custom made sleeve from thin brass sheet. It's not impossible, but it's very tricky. I was able to make one successfully for my Black Dial clock reproduction. I can maybe take a photo or two of that hand also. I was quite proud of it.

    Your other option is to just buy some zinc sheeting (places like Van Dykes - I think that's the name of it), carry it. You can then cut a strip of it, and just form a tube, and solder it in place.

    Whatever you do, make sure that you have a nice smooth fit, since the hour hand pipe slides on a WOODEN pipe shaft, and you don't want your hour hand to cut, scrape, or gouge the pipe as you turn it and reposition it from time to time.
     
  23. RJSoftware

    RJSoftware Registered User

    Apr 15, 2005
    8,332
    81
    48
    Male
    Loxahatchee, Florida
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    It's a thin wood tube too. Especially thin cause it's old and wore. Easy to crack.

    I'd just take a small rectangle of tin from tin can, fold a small 90 length wise to serve as a small lip (arround 1/8th inch) to join the hour hand, then wrap that arround pencil or something equal in size. To form semi circle.

    Remember, you don't have to have a complete circle, it can be 3/4 of a circle for that matter. Just has to grip on the hour cannon tube.

    If you look at most other manufactured hour hands there is a small gap in that piece.

    You can also fit the lip inside the hole of the hour hand instead of soldering to back. Test the tightness on cannon tube you may need to broach the hour hand hole.

    Doing that way gives you a little more mechanical grip initially before soldering. You might even use super glue if desired.

    You can even press that small lip edge on flat surface to make it more square. Reem the inside with large smoothing broach or some metal object, test fit, broach if needed, then solder.

    RJ
     
  24. Joseph Bautsch

    Joseph Bautsch Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Dec 9, 2006
    1,113
    125
    63
    Male
    Retired
    Atlanta, GA
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Thanks guys, I appreciate the info. :thumb: You have given me some ideas oh how to make one. Another thought came to me. I'm going to the regional in New Orleans this November. I'll see if I can find an old hands the mart. Also hands are popping up on e-bay all the time maybe I'll get lucky.
     
  25. Paul H

    Paul H Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Jun 23, 2005
    275
    6
    18
    Country Flag:
    Joe;

    The wood works movements that take the square hole in the hour hand have an additional clutch in the works so that when you move the hour hand, the clutch slips and allows the cannon tube/pinion to spin. Earlier movements had this, probably mostly short drop movements, and the Terry's would have chief users of this design. So yours may have had this originally. If the cannon pinion/tube is short and or broken off, this may be evidence of the square post that was previously there (or not if the tube is full length)

    If no clutch is present, then your hour hand definitely needs a sleave. I had made several out of thin sheet brass over the years. I cut small slits in one end, these slits then get bent over so I have some surface area to solder the sleave to the hand. Any extra solder that may insue is usually covered up be the minute hand.

    Have fun
    Paul
     
  26. Joseph Bautsch

    Joseph Bautsch Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Dec 9, 2006
    1,113
    125
    63
    Male
    Retired
    Atlanta, GA
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Paul - The wood hour pipe on the movement is round, full length and not broken. I will need a round hour hand bushing to fit over it. Another solution I thought of is to buy a 31 day calender hand with a bushing for a tall case clock. They are cheep and I can take off the bushing adjust it to fit the wood hour pipe and mount the hour hand on that. I'm in no rush. I'll wait until the New Orleans regional and see if I can't find something more original there.
     
  27. Sooth

    Sooth Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Feb 19, 2005
    3,899
    51
    48
    Cabinetmaker
    Cornwall, Ontario, Canada
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Joe, that's a good idea, actually, about the calendar hand. Does Timesavers carry these? If so, can you get me the part number? The Samuel Terry clock has a really badly replaced hour hand bushing, and I'll need to replace that one as well.
     
  28. Joseph Bautsch

    Joseph Bautsch Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Dec 9, 2006
    1,113
    125
    63
    Male
    Retired
    Atlanta, GA
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Sooth - The only one I could find is in the Merritt's catalog. Part #: P-69B. It's for a 11" tall case clock dial. I'm guessing it will fit the wood hour pipe. A little large is OK. I can always reduce the diameter. I won't know until I get it. I will place an order in the next day or two and let you know how it works out.
     

Share This Page