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s und p identification

The Black Pig

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Jan 3, 2019
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Good afternoon gentlemen,
I am a complete newbie and this is my first post so please be gentle with me.
I have a 400 day clock which has been in my wife`s family for many years, my initial thoughts were that it was a Kundo, but having read some posts regarding misidentification I now believe it is a S und P. I have attached some pics (hope the quality is ok).
If I am correct could any of you learned chaps advise as to the correct size of suspension required?. The bottom block is missing but top block and fork are intact so I will be able to get the correct spacing for the replacement. Regarding the bottom block, I have seen some images which show S and P clocks with a distinctive teardrop shaped bottom block, was this standard for all these clocks as I will need to fit a generic rectangular block which I assume will work ok as I am more interested in getting the clock running rather than being too fussed about originality.
I would also be interested in the manufacture date of the clock -Serial No 25866 which appears to be hand stamped.
Finally, at the risk of upsetting any purists, could anyone recommend a metal polish (available in UK) which will give a good shine to the plates and carcass of the clock?, some people seem to use Brasso whereas others seem to have issues regarding the residue it leaves.
I would greatly appreciate any advice you can give.
Thanks,
John

clock7.jpg clock1.jpg clock9.jpg
 

KurtinSA

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Nov 24, 2014
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Welcome to the message board, John. A member was instrumental in pointing out that some "Kundos" are really SuP clocks. John Hubby has done some documentation about them as well. It would appear that the universal thickness of the suspension spring should be 0.0035". I have three SuP clocks and two of them have the teardrop shaped bottom block but one has the standard square block. So, I'm not so sure of what was original, but likely the square was added to mine by the previous owner. I've attached a picture of what that teardrop looks like in the exploded view of my SuP teardown.

John Hubby has dated these clocks and the serial number should date yours to the first half of 1933.

As for polishing, I use something called Blue Magic Metal Polish but a more universal item might be Simichrome. A couple of micro fiber towels to apply and wipe off should work. Then the issue of protecting the surface. They were lacquered from the factory, but I've not mastered that. I use a car wax with Brazilian Carnauba. There are better I'm sure and others have offered it up...I'm sure they'll be along with their recommendations.

Kurt

SuPParts.jpg
 

Dells

NAWCC Member
Oct 18, 2019
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In the cotswolds UK
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Think you will find it’s 0.0035 Cousins or mills clocks have them.
If you decide to lacquer then one wet coat not any more , I have changed to using Renaissance wax ( what the museums use ) gives good protection but wear gloves after to stop finger prints.
Dell
120C969B-9A59-47B8-9A64-C186CC122386.jpeg
 
Last edited:

etmb61

NAWCC Member
Oct 25, 2010
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Just about any bottom block will do the job. This is what they originally came with:
bottom block.jpg

Eric
 

Ken M

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Feb 28, 2009
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Blue Magic won't damage the original brass, Brasso will take it off if you work hard enough. I try to keep the original lacquer if it's in good condition. I can't spray lacquer either, tried and tried. Bought the good stuff from Timesavers, no help.
 

Dells

NAWCC Member
Oct 18, 2019
754
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In the cotswolds UK
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Blue Magic won't damage the original brass, Brasso will take it off if you work hard enough. I try to keep the original lacquer if it's in good condition. I can't spray lacquer either, tried and tried. Bought the good stuff from Timesavers, no help.
Just one wet coat is best not multiple coats like you would expect and it needs to be warm otherwise it will bloom ( go cloudy).
 

Schatznut

NAWCC Member
Sep 26, 2020
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I've gotten my best results with lacquer if the ambient relative humidity is low, less than 20%, and the temperature on the cooler side of things. In my experience the "blooming" is caused by humidity, so a balance needs to be struck. Lacquer contains "hot" solvents that flash off quickly, but if it flashes off before the material has flowed out evenly, the result can be a bumpy, or eggshell, appearance. On the other hand, if ambient is too cool, there's more opportunity for the material to absorb moisture from the air before it sets.

I agree with Dells - Renaissance Wax is good material. If doing a full restoration, I'll generally lacquer the base, as it is what is exposed to the elements most directly, and wax everything that's under the dome. If I'm preserving a clock in its original condition, I'll do minor cleanup and wax everything.
 

Schatznut

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Sep 26, 2020
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The Black Pig

New User
Jan 3, 2019
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A big thank you to everyone who replied and thanks for the advice.
Regarding humidity problems for lacquer, I think I will settle for a good polish and wax, the humidity today in my part of bonny Scotland is 90% and there are probably only about 2 days per year when it approaches anything like 20%.
Thanks again and no doubt as someone once said "I`ll be back`.
John
 

Dells

NAWCC Member
Oct 18, 2019
754
151
43
In the cotswolds UK
Country
Region
I've gotten my best results with lacquer if the ambient relative humidity is low, less than 20%, and the temperature on the cooler side of things. In my experience the "blooming" is caused by humidity, so a balance needs to be struck. Lacquer contains "hot" solvents that flash off quickly, but if it flashes off before the material has flowed out evenly, the result can be a bumpy, or eggshell, appearance. On the other hand, if ambient is too cool, there's more opportunity for the material to absorb moisture from the air before it sets.

I agree with Dells - Renaissance Wax is good material. If doing a full restoration, I'll generally lacquer the base, as it is what is exposed to the elements most directly, and wax everything that's under the dome. If I'm preserving a clock in its original condition, I'll do minor cleanup and wax everything.
I generally wax pre WW2 because most aren’t lacquered post WW2 wax movement lacquer base and pillars, I am used to lacquer because I use it at work all the time just try different ways and practice, both humidity and damp will make it bloom because both are moisture.
 

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