S Hoadley Wood Movement Clock

Discussion in 'Wood Movement Clocks' started by Ian Bruce, Mar 6, 2019.

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  1. Ian Bruce

    Ian Bruce Registered User

    Mar 6, 2019
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    Hi, I'm new to the forum and to clocks. I have a tall case S Hoadley, Ct clock in a pine case with a one day wood movement. I don't think the clock is especially valuable, but I'd love to get it working and would welcome advice.

    I've attached a few pictures. The clock has clearly had some fairly recent repair work -- several of the gears are clean and new-looking, and the strings on the weights are new, as well as the dowels pegs that hold the frame together.

    The clock was recently moved with the pendulum and weights removed and the case hood taken off. I put it all together, set it in motion, but no ticking. If I gently pull down on the weight, it does tick some. When I look at the movement of the escapement, the pallet doesn't seem to clear the escape wheel teeth (apologies if I have the terminology wrong here!) I have tried leveling the clock.

    Any advice on steps I should take much appreciated!

    IMG_0538.jpg IMG_0539.jpg IMG_0542.jpg 1570_1.jpg IMG_0538.jpg IMG_0539.jpg IMG_0542.jpg 1570_1.jpg
     
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  2. R. Croswell

    R. Croswell Registered User

    Apr 4, 2006
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    Looks like a nice clock. If we assume that the movement was recently repaired properly, then the most likely cause of it not running is that it is out of beat. Make sure the pendulum is suspended properly. Go to the repair section of thi s forum and read the beat setting 101 article.

    RC
     
  3. Ian Bruce

    Ian Bruce Registered User

    Mar 6, 2019
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    Thanks RC. My plan is to spend this weekend going through the process of getting it back in beat, but my initial reaction is that there’s something else wrong. It doesn’t tick at all.
     
  4. Burkhard Rasch

    Burkhard Rasch Registered User
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    #4 Burkhard Rasch, Mar 7, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2019
    the distorsion of the lines has to be corrected,if the loops go over one-another they will block and not deliver power to the drum and to the train.Best would be to gently disengage the click from the ratchet wheel,pull down the line completely by hand and then - with the weight attached and the click working again-rewind each arbor taking care that the loops don´t overlap again.Besides that beat setting is the most probable issue.A nice clock btw!
    Burkhard

    another tip : if You have to move the clock around ,of cause the weights and the pendulum have to be taken out, but before You remove the weight wind each train to the top and then place a broad piece of adhesive tape over the line curled around the winding drum so that it cannot move when the tension is released by taking of the weight.HTH
     
  5. Ian Bruce

    Ian Bruce Registered User

    Mar 6, 2019
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    Thanks everyone. I've taken another look at the clock and the movement, and think I may have isolated a problem. The main drive gear wheel (the one that has the drum with the string wound around it, and the pendulum weight attached that drives the time train) has a loose bearing. I can move it about with my hand. It's not engaging properly with the smaller gear (a newer, replaced gear) that then drives the movement and escapement. If I place some pressure on the gear mechanism for the escapement, it ticks fine. But because the main drive gear isn't delivering enough power to the gear train, it's not ticking.

    So, I think I need to replace the bearings for this gear, and adjust the position somehow so the gears mesh properly and transmit power up the gear train. Does this sound right?

    If yes, what do I do and where do I find bearings? Can I repair or do I need to replace?
     
  6. Burkhard Rasch

    Burkhard Rasch Registered User
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    it could well be that a worn out bearing of the first wheel leads to not meshing with the T2 pinion,but it could also be that the newly made T2 pinion is the reason for not working properly. Take out all innards between the plates except of hese two gears and analyse the problem again. Let´s see what You come out with (multiple pics!)
    Burkhard
     
  7. Ian Bruce

    Ian Bruce Registered User

    Mar 6, 2019
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    Another update. I took the clock dial off plus the gears that drive the hours and minutes hands. This exposed the bad bearing. I used a thin strip of wood to reposition the gear so it meshed properly with the rest of the gear train, and the clock works great!

    I still need to get the hour strike mechanism working but pleased it now tells time.

    Any suggestions on how/where to find a bearing and how to deal with the worn out hole in the plate?
     
  8. Burkhard Rasch

    Burkhard Rasch Registered User
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    I´m not the expert on american wooden works clocks allthough I own two of them,but as far as I see the pivots of the arbors run in the wooden plates directly,there is no special "bearing" but just a hole in the wood of apropriate diameter to accept the pivot and at an apropriate distance to the bearing of the next arbor to provide correct meshing.So IMHO the original hole should be plugged with a kind of dovel,if ever possible of the same wood (oak) and with the grain running in the same direction glued in and then a new hole should be drilled into that dovel of correct size and distance.If You don´t want Your repair be seen at first glance You can insert the plug from inside the plate and not of the full plate´s thickness.See that You mark the correct location of the new hole on the plate before You start. Pics?
    Good luck!
    Burkhard
     
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  9. Joseph Bautsch

    Joseph Bautsch Registered User
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    I learned this method of replacing bushings from a lecturer at a regional convention. I don't remember the name of the speaker. I've used this method a number of times and it's never faiiled. Use a drill press with a 1/4" drill. A wood works plate has a convex divot centered over the pivot hole. Put a wood block under the plate, to prevent the back from splintering the drilled edges, and drill down onto the convex divot. Don't lock the plate down. Let the drill and divot guide themselves to center.The shape of the divot and of the drill will center the 1/4" hole over where the pivot should be located. The center will be found regardless of the amount of wear in the pivot hole. Next iuse a 1/4" collet and mount a short piece of 1/4" dowel in the lathe, take a center and drill a hole a little smaller than the pivot. That can be broached out to fit after the bushing is installed. After the center hole is drilled use a 3/8" drill just deep enough to create a new concave divot. The new wood bushing should fit snug with no need for glueing. Take another piece of the 1/4" dowel and sand the end round. Use that to drive the bushing from the front onto the hole until it is flat with the outside of the plate. Trim any overage on the back to make it flush. If it is a little too loose then hide glue will lock it in place. The speaker also suggested using a cherry wood dowel. That will give you a much smother and longer lasting bushing. If you want the color to match use a touch of wood stain dye.
     
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  10. R. Croswell

    R. Croswell Registered User

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    For the past 12 years I have been making by bearings from Delrin-AF. The material is available from McMaster Carr but you will need a lathe to turn and true bore the bushing to size. The material is very low friction and requires less removal of original wood from the plate. This thread from the clock repair forum describes a "basket case" wooden works movement brought back to life; Wooden Works "basket case" repair Scroll down to post # 69 for illustrations about making and installing Delrin-AF bushings.

    Joseph has described a method for locating center that usually works, but I would also visually check to see if it is apparent the the original hole was indeed centered in the divot. I have found a few - very few - where it appears that the original hole may not have been centered. Important to check the meshing of the wheel and pinion before starting. I use my regular Bergeon reamers to enlarge the hole to receive the bushing. Best to drill the bushing to the correct size before installing. I don't like extremely tight fitting bushings in wooden plates, especially where several bushings may be in line as there is a risk of splitting the plate.

    There are of course a number of different materials and methods that have been used successfully over years and various reasons for using, or not using each.

    RC
     
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  11. Ian Bruce

    Ian Bruce Registered User

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    Thanks. I think this would work for me, although finding the center of that dowel will be tricky for me.
     
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  12. Ian Bruce

    Ian Bruce Registered User

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    Thanks to everyone for their help! I'm now trying to fix the chime mechanism. The mechanism will work for one strike, then seems to get caught and won't work unless I give the gear mechanism a little "help" with gentle pressure on the gears. I can't find any obvious obstruction and the gear train seems fine. I wonder if the problem is that the pendulum weight isn't enough? The two weights are different sizes, I currently have the largest on the main time train, the smaller on the chime. How can I tell if the weights are right? Is it okay to add weight?
     
  13. gleber

    gleber Registered User

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    I believe the heavier weight is usually on the strike train. When it stops, are the wheels higher in the train loose (able to wiggle)? If so, there is binding in the lower wheels. If not, there is not enough power (weight) or the higher wheels are binding.

    Tom
     
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  14. R. Croswell

    R. Croswell Registered User

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    If the clock ran OK before it was moved but now it doesn't, and if you have it level and in beat then there would seem to be a possibility that the weights got mixed up. How much weight do you have on each side? It shouldn't hurt anything to switch the weights and see. I would not recommend using anything heavier than the heaviest original weight on either side. Most clocks place the heavier weight on the strike side, but some types of wooden movements specify the lighter weight on the strike side. not sure about this one.

    Whenever a clock has had "previous repairs" its best to assume nothing and suspect everything. This is a somewhat different wooden works movement that I have on the bench right now. Same complaint - sometimes doesn't work right. Lots of previous repairs including some strange replacement teeth. Nothing was binding but the trains seemed a bit "stiff". not real bad, just less free than usual. Someone spent a lot of time bushing all the pivot holes with wooden bushings. Nor so obvious from the outside, but this is what I found inside. Almost all the pivot holes are off center. Each misalignment creates a little more power loss. Anyone who has had to clean up a mess like this will tell you that it is a lot easier to get a bushing centered right the first time than to have to find center after the original location is lost. Two points are, suspect and verify the integrity of all previous work, and if you do install bushings, make sure that your method results in pivot holes that are perpendicular to the plate and centered over where the hole originally was before wearing out.

    RC

    gone-wrong.jpg
     
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  15. Ian Bruce

    Ian Bruce Registered User

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    RC, much appreciated! I plan to take the clock apart this weekend. Fingers crossed, because the work you outline would be at the limit of what I can do.

    I do have another question. I tried moving weights around, and the time movement only works with the heavier weight (it's under 3lb). The lighter weight doesn't work either side. I tried messing with the chime movement and succeeded in breaking one of the gear ends. So my question is, if I take pictures of the broken gear mechanism, where can I source a new gear set? I'm *hoping* they are available and standard, but that might be very naive!

    I do not have the equipment to make a new gear set, so any ideas welcome!
     
  16. R. Croswell

    R. Croswell Registered User

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    If the heavier weight is under three lbs. I can't help wonder if you have the original weights. 30 hour wooden movements typically use about 3 to 3.5 lbs weights. As for the broken gear, these can usually be repaired. I believe Don Bruno (I forget his web address) can duplicate most wooden gears.

    RC
     
  17. gleber

    gleber Registered User

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    Pictures would help us provide the best recommendation.

    Tom
     
  18. rmarkowitz1_cee4a1

    rmarkowitz1_cee4a1 Registered User
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    #18 rmarkowitz1_cee4a1, Mar 16, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2019
    I can't help you much with the movement. My experience with ww clocks, and I have quite a few, is that they don't work long term. Sorry if that statement rankles some. I still love them to death and collect them.

    Just a comment. It seems that in the general Americana antiques market, with the exception of exceptional exceptions, clocks are being avoided by many dealers who offer the general line of American antiques. They have become a tough sell and many dealers don't want to have to guarantee them as working nor have the expense of having them repaired, if you can find someone good to execute those repairs. That is especially the perception of ww clocks, again with exceptional exceptions. Chipped teeth, split gears, bad prior repairs. Getting things fixed seems to take forever (as is my personal experience) and generally very expensive. Finally, being a 30 hour clock hurts, too.

    However, some ww clocks transcend that.

    A clock with a lovely dial. You clock has one. The dials of these clocks have long been appreciated as folk art. There was a time in the hands of the right dealer, just the dials sold for as much as the complete clocks often sell for now.

    A great case. Case style, originality (of its components and of the movement and dial to it), wood (cherry? tiger maple?) and especially surface treatment. By the last I mean if it is paint decorated, inlaid, etc.

    See these:

    Paint-decorated Tall Case Clock | Sale Number 2897M, Lot Number 201 | Skinner Auctioneers

    Vermont Paint Decorated Tall Case Clock

    Clocks like these tend to cause a feeding frenzy amongst dealers and collectors...even if a marriage or not working!

    I would love to see pix of the case? Sadly, many of these ww cases were skinned and are now plain pine. The refinishing knuckle heads at it again. Yes, that 1/64 inch of surface can make a huge difference.

    Anyhow, good luck with getting your clock running and enjoy it.

    Nice bit of Americana!!

    RM
     
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  19. R. Croswell

    R. Croswell Registered User

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    I hope Ian doesn't become discouraged by this. First, American ww clocks generally are 180 to over 200 years old and many have accumulated a number of poorly executed repairs. Because wooden parts are damaged more easily than metal one needs to use a bit more care. Also, one improper repair can precipitate another. For that reason when a ww movement presents for repair it is important to bring the entire movement up to sound running order. I have five of my own that have been running for over 10 years withou a problem. I agree, that 30 hr. clocks can be inconvenient to wind every day, but there are some 8-day ones, and I have one in the shop now that belongs to someone else. One of the reasons that servicing a ww movement can be expensive is that it probably will require a lot of pivot and bushing work, and I almost always find previous subpar repairs that have to be redone. And it just takes time to make replacement wooden teeth, bushings, pivots, etc. Granted, some of the earlier models can be more difficult, but if one wants ww clocks, they are what they are. In good condition they run quite well and I personally find them to be as reliable as any other movement. And no need to worry a busted main spring or having a lot of places to oil.

    RC
     
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  20. bruce linde

    bruce linde Technical Admin
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    love mine, and echo @R. Croswell 's recommendation of delrin.... a joy to work with, and changed everything on a particularly difficult movement.
     
  21. Peter A. Nunes

    Peter A. Nunes Moderator
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    Light weight on the strike side!
     
  22. gleber

    gleber Registered User

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    Thank you for the correction. I mixed myself up on that one, but I know better.

    Tom
     
  23. R. Croswell

    R. Croswell Registered User

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    However in this case the OP reported that the heavier weight is under 3 lbs. so very likely neither weight will operate this clock properly considering the condition it is in with wooden shims in pivot holes and misaligned wheels and pinions. My guess is that the original weights went missing and someone substituted a set of American 30 hour OG weights.

    RC
     

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