Chronometry: Roth Bros.

Discussion in 'Chronometers' started by Paul Regan, Dec 16, 2015.

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  1. Paul Regan

    Paul Regan Registered User

    Mar 4, 2003
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    #1 Paul Regan, Dec 16, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 17, 2015
    Here are a couple of ??? navigational aids that were put together by the Roth Brothers leading up to WW II. It seems that leading up to WW II there was a shortage of military timepieces available as Hamilton had not yet ramped up production of the 22 and 21. While using the same case and gimbal hardware it seems they fitted any good quality watch movement. They also supplied the dial. Besides the pictured Hamilton and Waltham examples I have seen Illinois and some European versions including one with a detent escapement. In the examples pictured there is a 15J Waltham 83 and a 21J Hamilton 940.
    Please feel free to post other Roth examples you may have.
    Paul
     

    Attached Files:

  2. Tom McIntyre

    Tom McIntyre Technical Admin
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    Aug 24, 2000
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    Nice looking pieces Paul. I think there are more of these than we know about because a lot of people have rejected them as fakes of some sort. The Walthams in flat boxes are probably by Roth or another outfitter with the same plan.

    I have an Elgin 8 day made into an signal room clock by roth Brothers and some other instruments as well.

    SextantInBox.jpg FactoryCert.jpg Signature.jpg

    Below is a Jurgenson detent chronometer mounted in a tub, I think by Roth. Gary Sellick assures me that the box is an accurate copy of a Roth WWII box.

    FaceInBox.jpg Movement2.jpg

    Here is the Elgin/Roth Signal Room clock.

    Front.jpg MvtBack.jpg MvtUnderDial.jpg
     
  3. Jim Haney

    Jim Haney Registered User

    Sep 21, 2002
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    This is a Hamilton 940, which is a 21J 18size pocket watch that was in production for 20 years and helped Hamilton build the following for RR watches.

    Kent has an ad for these from Roth Bros that they ran in newspapers to buy good watch movements. I will contact him for a copy.
     

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  4. Kent

    Kent Registered User

    Aug 26, 2000
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    Here's the ad to which Jim referred:

    [​IMG]
     
  5. Paul Regan

    Paul Regan Registered User

    Mar 4, 2003
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    I recently added this Illinois version of the Roth Bros deck watches. The movement is a 23 jewel Bunn special. A nice extra is that it came with its last Rating Certificate. Looks like it was a nice time keeper. I guess I will have to look for more of these as I have now started a sub-collection.
     

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  6. Accutronitis

    Accutronitis Registered User

    Aug 24, 2014
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    Wow, They must have been pretty desperate for any chronometers they could get their hand on !
     
  7. novicetimekeeper

    novicetimekeeper Registered User

    Jul 26, 2015
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    Shipbuilding was going on at an enormous pace and rather than ships being scrapped they were being sunk, so presumably that had an effect on the secondhand market!
     
  8. Accutronitis

    Accutronitis Registered User

    Aug 24, 2014
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    Before they were sunk weren't they stripped of anything useful ? Say like a chronometer ?
     
  9. novicetimekeeper

    novicetimekeeper Registered User

    Jul 26, 2015
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    I think when you are racing for a lifeboat after being torpedoed that isn't going to be the first thing on your mind.
     
  10. Accutronitis

    Accutronitis Registered User

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    Opps i thought you meant they were being by the good guys for some reason, Brain fart...... screwball
     
  11. novicetimekeeper

    novicetimekeeper Registered User

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    I imagine the emergency shipbuilding programme was a major contributor to the shortage. That was to build merchant ships while the US Navy was already using up most of the available yard space to build its own ships. Add to that ships were no longer being scrapped so readily because there was a huge demand for them and those lost at sea were no source for parts.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergency_Shipbuilding_program
     
  12. Paul Regan

    Paul Regan Registered User

    Mar 4, 2003
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    Just when I thought it was safe, another Roth came along. Up until yesterday I had three (Hamilton, Waltham, Illinois) now I have four. Well an Elgin was spotted and I could not resist. Basically all Roth's are the same except for the movements. This one is an Elgin 21J Veritas. One interesting difference is that the Elgin dial is Roman.
    After all why not have one each of the big four manufacturers at the time. Glad to have it! Now what?
    Paul
     

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  13. Jim Haney

    Jim Haney Registered User

    Sep 21, 2002
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    I found this Roth Bros. Chronometer at the Mid-South Regional show in Chattanooga on Friday.

    They used a Waltham Vanguard 18s movement serial # 9517716.

    The dial and brass case and gimbals are correct but the box is very supect, but it is what it is, and I may find a box SOMETIME... Nutjob
     

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