Romanet Morbier FFR France Grand Father clock movement question

[L3G10N]

Hello everyone, Just got that Grand-Father clock today and movement seems to not work properlly.
When I opened the sides, here is what I was able to see.

Romanet Morbier FFR France and #79071

When I start the pendulum, in the movement box, it seems to miss some mecanism If I moove the front needles manually to each 15mins(15-30-45-00), Bells will work as supposed and same goes for the hours(1-2-3-4-5, etc)

But pendulum, by itself, it will just stop after less than a minutes.
Was trying to find some documentation on that movement, but I am totally a newbie but I do have a really good logic mind.

Where can I get some information on that movement? Where could I find some parts for the movement if some are missing?
I am sure that previous owner opened it and tryed to build it back but.... badly.

Tnx in advance for any help on that one!

 

[J. A. Olson]

FFR = trademark of les Fils de Felicien Romanet SARL. Long story short from the French horological journals: FFR was a longtime French maker of chime clocks which included some reproduction inspired models like your clock. After the gradual decline of the French chime clock industry, FFR went bankrupt in 1981 and was bought up by Société Horlogère ODO. FFR was continued as "S.A. Productions ROMANET" from 1984 until 1988 when clock manufacturing under this brand finally ceased.

Your clock was made during those later years when reproduction 'Morez' inspired clocks became popular. The chainwind movement was an FFR design but is similar to the Hermle 451 series in some aspects. Spare parts for FFR movements are no longer made but it doesn't look like anything's missing. Typical rule for these clocks is as follows: if you don't know when it was last overhauled, it's time to get it overhauled.

 

[L3G10N]

Hermle Service Manual

Service manual for Hermle mechanical clock movements

issuu.com

by this document, looks a lot like a 471-050

 

[L3G10N]

FFR = trademark of les Fils de Felicien Romanet SARL. Long story short from the French horological journals: FFR was a longtime French maker of chime clocks which included some reproduction inspired models like your clock. After the gradual decline of the French chime clock industry, FFR went bankrupt in 1981 and was bought up by Société Horlogère ODO. FFR was continued as "S.A. Productions ROMANET" from 1984 until 1988 when clock manufacturing under this brand finally ceased.

Your clock was made during those later years when reproduction 'Morez' inspired clocks became popular. The chainwind movement was an FFR design but is similar to the Hermle 451 series in some aspects. Spare parts for FFR movements are no longer made but it doesn't look like anything's missing. Typical rule for these clocks is as follows: if you don't know when it was last overhauled, it's time to get it overhauled.

Thank you very much for those infos.

I did take another look at the movement.
Still think something is missing or broke or moved.
When I moove the pendulum, I see the little "fork" in the movement, fork that should make the mecanism work.
But that fork don't touch anything. there is nothing between that for and the clock mecanism.

I am tryting to find a manual about that movement or anything that could help me taking the movement appart and be sure that everything is at the right place.

Thank you for your time and help.

 

[tracerjack]

The first question for now is, is the movement “in beat”? Check this article if you need more information on that. https://mb.nawcc.org/wiki/Encyclopedia-Subjects/Clock-Repair/Beat-Setting-101. Since I can see the crutch foot is properly seated in the leader, the movement should tick. To verify that something is missing, you would have to remove the movement from the case and take photos from various angles.

You might also want to check out this article for the movement part names.https://mb.nawcc.org/wiki/Encyclopedia-Subjects/Clock-Repair/Chime-Clock-Basics. It helps greatly when trying to give advice that everyone is speaking of the same part.

 

[JTD]

Still think something is missing or broke or moved.
When I moove the pendulum, I see the little "fork" in the movement, fork that should make the mecanism work.
But that fork don't touch anything. there is nothing between that for and the clock mecanism.

Could you post a photo of the whole of the back of the movement, so we can see where the pendulum and leader attach at the top? That might help to identify what you think might be missing.

JTD

 

[L3G10N]

Could you post a photo of the whole of the back of the movement, so we can see where the pendulum and leader attach at the top? That might help to identify what you think might be missing.

JTD

Front of Movement

Back

Is it normal that when the pendulum arm in neutral let the "fork" leaning fully on the right?
Should not be neutral?

 

[JTD]

Is it normal that when the pendulum arm in neutral let the "fork" leaning fully on the right?

No it's not. I suspect that your clock is severely out of beat. Start by reading
'Beat Setting 101' on this site*. You will need to move the crutch (the 'pendulum arm') to the left until you meet some resistance and then push it gently a little further. When it hangs fairly centrally, you can start to set your clock in beat.

JTD

* to find 'Beat Setting 101' go to the Repair Section, click on that, scroll down to 'How to do it articles', open that and the first item there is 'Beat Setting 101'. Read it carefully and I think it will help you considerably to get you clock working.

 

[L3G10N]

No it's not. I suspect that your clock is severely out of beat. Start by reading
'Beat Setting 101' on this site. You will need to move the crutch (the 'pendulum arm') to the left until you meet some resistance and then push it gently a little further. When it hangs fairly centrally, you can start to set your clock in beat.

JTD

that's what I tought. Thank you very much JTD.
Here is some video I did

 

[L3G10N]

Thank you very much JTD again.
Clock is now working back. Will just have to set the pendulum for advance/late seconds, but beside this, everything's working

a BIG thank you once again!

 

[JTD]

Thank you very much JTD again.
Clock is now working back. Will just have to set the pendulum for advance/late seconds, but beside this, everything's working

a BIG thank you once again!

You're welcome, glad you did it.

JTD

 

[L3G10N]

You're welcome, glad you did it.

JTD

One little last question for you, I'd call that part a kind of lockwasher. But can't find that anyway under that shape.
Could anyone point be to where i could order some?

There was one missing in the assembly when I took things appart.

This Grandfather clock was beaten as hell.... 2 hammer was twister together, the plate that hold the 4 hammer for the "hour bell" was bent, etc etc.

But everything is back together, tnx to this website and you 2 guys.

That's the last thing I need to find to consider that one, complete.

Tnx again in advance!

 

[JTD]

Never seen one quite like that. Can you show where it goes and what it does?
You may have to improvise/fabricate one.

JTD

 

[L3G10N]

Never seen one quite like that. Can you show where it goes and what it does?
You may have to improvise/fabricate one.

JTD

It hold the clock face(where we can read the number under the needles) to the movement

Sorry, might have a hard time finding the right words, I speak french from up north Quebec, Canada. So I do my best finding the right words. Sorry for that.

 

[ragobo]

Yes it holds the dial to the movement. I have had some FFR movements and they tend to use those fasteners instead of tapered pins.

There's usually 3: one up and two on both on the sides.

Of course like the rest of the pieces of that movement they are no longer made but with two you could do too.

 

[L3G10N]

Yes it holds the dial to the movement. I have had some FFR movements and they tend to use those fasteners instead of tapered pins.

There's usually 3: one up and two on both on the sides.

Of course like the rest of the pieces of that movement they are no longer made but with two you could do too.

tnx for the clear answer.
I do have two. And it hold for sure. I just like to make it sit perfectly.
If they don't exist anymore, i'll check for a B plan.

Thank you very much!

 

[ragobo]

BTW, this lever silences the clock (useful at nights)

 

[L3G10N]

BTW, this lever silences the clock (useful at nights)

View attachment 674648

tnx a lot again.
that's what I thought it was. But since this grand-father clock is not that much loud, it's not a problem that it ring at night.

Does that lever have to be moved constantly or does it can stay at this position?

 

[ragobo]

tnx a lot again.
that's what I thought it was. But since this grand-father clock is not that much loud, it's not a problem that it ring at night.

Does that lever have to be moved constantly or does it can stay at this position?

The lever should have some resistance to movement so that it can stay at any position you may left it. If no need to shut off the clock at night you can leave it as it is now. No problem at all.

 

[L3G10N]

The lever should have some resistance to movement so that it can stay at any position you may left it. If no need to shut off the clock at night you can leave it as it is now. No problem at all.

Yeah, this FFR is not as loud as my other Junghans.
That Junghans is loud!!

Me and my wife gave that FFR yesterday after that JTD helped me fix it to my wife's mother. She was looking for a grandfather clock since years. She was really happy

 

[JTD]

Me and my wife gave that FFR yesterday after that JTD helped me fix it to my wife's mother. We was looking for a grandfather clock since years. She was really happy

That's very nice, a real happy ending to the story. Glad I could help a little, but you did the work.

JTD

 

[Croft Weatherman]

I have just picked up this clock, it was in a lighting shop and the owner was about to through it out!!!
I have fully repaired, cleaned and reassembled it
BUT...
I am having a problem getting the chiming to work correctly.
The clock runs well on time keeping and strikes the hour fine.
Its the 15 ,30 and 45min chime that is wrong.
It will start at 15 past but does not stop when the cam follower reaches the next slot in the cam, it just keeps going till it reaches the hour slot, which is deeper.
I need to know how to set everything up, align the cams, stop pins and so on.
All guidance gratefully received, thanks

 

[JTD]

I have just picked up this clock, it was in a lighting shop and the owner was about to through it out!!!
I have fully repaired, cleaned and reassembled it
BUT...
I am having a problem getting the chiming to work correctly.
The clock runs well on time keeping and strikes the hour fine.
Its the 15 ,30 and 45min chime that is wrong.
It will start at 15 past but does not stop when the cam follower reaches the next slot in the cam, it just keeps going till it reaches the hour slot, which is deeper.
I need to know how to set everything up, align the cams, stop pins and so on.
All guidance gratefully received, thanks

It would help to have pictures of what you are dealing with.

JTD

 

[Croft Weatherman]

It would help to have pictures of what you are dealing with.

JTD

 

[J. A. Olson]

If this was your video it looks like the locking disc has slipped out of alignment, barely missing the pin when it is supposed to lock.



Adjust the locking disc and see if that makes any difference. This is the first part that tends to slip out of line and causes the chimes to act erratic. The disc has a set screw so it should adjust.

 

[Croft Weatherman]

I have the clock all working now One of the metal arms was slightly bent meaning the stop pin was not caught. Secondly the small spring was damaged so not giving the necessary tension. All is now fine. Thanks everyone