Robert Roskell Numbers File.

Discussion in 'European & Other Pocket Watches' started by Allan C. Purcell, Oct 5, 2017.

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  1. Allan C. Purcell

    Allan C. Purcell Registered User
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    I was asked by a member if Robert Roskell signed his watches one the barrel plate or the rear plate? I have to admit I was not sure, because over the first 50,000 I thought Roskell put his name where it best fitted. So I again took out my files on Roskell, and did a search through some two hundred photographs I have here on Robert Roskells pocket watches.Could this be a way to help date the watches, well the answer is yes and no. The watch pictured on the front of the the Roskell file No.172, Signed Roskell 172 on the Barrel plate-and it seems up to the 10.000 mark they were all signed on the barrel plate with small alterations of the signature- Roskell, R. Roskell, Rt. Roskell and Rob. Roskell, later even Robt. Roskell. Of course there are exceptions, No.10,008 is signed on the rear plate.From then on it is a mix of the two styles. I also noticed on the few that have his name on the dial, the signature would be the same on the watch plate-so if not there is something amiss. So all this tells us at the moment is early Roskells will be signed on the barrel plate, then its back to the numbers for verification.

    IMG_6208.JPG IMG_6209.JPG IMG_6210.JPG The dial shown here is from No.172-half hunter dials are rare on Rack levers?
     
  2. Allan C. Purcell

    Allan C. Purcell Registered User
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    Every now and then something turns up that is quite odd in the Robert Roskell world. There is a rather odd movement in "Your Time" on page 63, which it tells us that the movement was used by Robert Roskell and James McCabe. (The information on Geroge Holmes does not ring true-George would have been about 6/7 years old when this movement was made). In my above file you see recored No. 27175 Gold Pair Case HM 1800 according to Bonhams.. The watch signed Robt. Roskell Liverpool. That was in 2011. A year later the watch was sold by Dr. Crott´s auctions house. now in a open faced case-with gold dial and the case encrusted with diamonds, and they say c1830. Photographs below. My file reads a different story-No. 27067 has a HM for Chester 1818/19 No. 27212 Ditto The next dated watch is No. 27472 HM Chester 1824/25. Estimate by Dr.Crott €11,00 to 15,000.

    IMG_6283.JPG IMG_6287.JPG These two are from "Your Time" showing I think that Roskell 27175 is a genuine Roskell watch-Though I have only ever seen the one mentioned above. When Baillie wrote about Roskell he mentioned that Roskell had in his collection a gold cased watch encrusted in Diamonds.


    IMG_6284.JPG IMG_6286.JPG IMG_6285.JPG Here the watch in Dr. Crott´s auction-the Bonhams. (Massey I escapement) I dont have to hand-but will find it and put on here when I do.
    Best Allan.

     
  3. Allan C. Purcell

    Allan C. Purcell Registered User
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    It would appear it was not sold by Dr. Crott in 2012- and was put up for sale again in 2013-so I kept the update then destroyed the old stuff-so no record by me on the Bonhams sale but it is still on the net under the watch number.
     
  4. Allan C. Purcell

    Allan C. Purcell Registered User
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    07/10/2018
    [​IMG]
     

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  5. Allan C. Purcell

    Allan C. Purcell Registered User
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    I thought I had given up buying Robert Roskell pocket watches-especially one with a large number like this one 57026.(After Robt. Roskells death in 1847) Lets start with the case. Chester hallmark (Q) for 1854/55.Sponsor CJ not in the old Priestley, but in the new one Christopher Jones. 1834 to 56 at Highfield Street, Liverpool. Case is also stamped with the watch number 57026. The glass is missing, but the rest looks fine-will know more when it arrives. The dial is a mess-but it still has the name Robert Roskell Liverpool on it. So it will stay that way. No seconds hand thought the pipe is there. Both hour and minute hands are brocken-the stubs are still in place.
    s-810 (2).jpg
    The movement will be of interest to Keith-its a Liverpool runner-it looks in good order-but again I dont know it if runs or not. I would think an STR-though it could be a late Massey.

    s-910.jpg The escape wheel seems to be of the Swiss style.It looks to have been a quality watch in its day-will have to see if it can be well restored, though it will never look like the "Belle of the Ball" with that dial.

    More when it arrives.Best Allan.
     
  6. Allan C. Purcell

    Allan C. Purcell Registered User
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    s-601.jpg s-602.jpg s-603.jpg Three more photographs. Allan.
     
  7. Omexa

    Omexa Registered User
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    Hi Allan, a very nice looking movement. Regards Ray
     
  8. Keith R...

    Keith R... Registered User
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    #58 Keith R..., Oct 13, 2018
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2018
    Nice Allan, you will have to get Ray to mail you some dial dope.
    I'd go with the ...........these hands (easier than spelling), gets around Tom's
    spell checkin machine.:D

    Matching gold set no less. The rest of mine are the pointy kind. Found the
    cheap ones.;)

    PS........Most important part Allan, nice clean plates on the runner!!

    Keith R...

    100_2095 (800x600).jpg 100_3201 (800x600).jpg
     
  9. Omexa

    Omexa Registered User
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    Hi Allan, what Keith is referring to, is Selleys Porcelain Epoxy, which I mix with a White pigment to get the right shade of White. Regards Ray
     
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  10. Allan C. Purcell

    Allan C. Purcell Registered User
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    Hi Ray and Keith-pleased to see you like the watch, gold hands Keith I have-a glass to fit is no problem, but that Selleys Porcelain Epoxy sounds like it could improve the dial-please let me know how i can hold off a very small ammount?

    Best wishes,

    Allan.
     
  11. Omexa

    Omexa Registered User
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    Hi Allan, it is sold on eBay. Regards Ray
     
  12. Allan C. Purcell

    Allan C. Purcell Registered User
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    Hi Ray-Thank you for the information-I had a look at this seller- only 87% and only sold 6 items- 100 Au. Dollars is a bit much. I found it here at our DIY for €5.45.I did ént buy it, you have to buy a mask if you are going to use it. So I thought getting another dial is the answer. Best wishes Allan.

    PS: the Guy goes by the name-intsagooddaytogoshopping
     
  13. Allan C. Purcell

    Allan C. Purcell Registered User
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    I came across a Rare watch in David Thompsons book "WATCHES" from the BM in London. I think those interested in Robert Roskell would like to see what David has written on this watch. I know it it is food for thought, and would be pleased to here the oppinions of other members on this odd watch. Please read pages 26-27 of the Roskell numbers file below.

    [​IMG]
     

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  14. Allan C. Purcell

    Allan C. Purcell Registered User
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    So Roskell 57026 turned up, and there were one or two suprises. It has a Massey three escapement, and the date letter was not Q for 1854/55 it is in fact the D for 1842/43-the year Robert Roskell Sr. Retired. On the case photograph you can see a small dent at the top, and I think this was the culprit, a fall from a high place which broke the glass. then it was put in a draw for maybe a hundred years. It is now with my watchmaker. I decided to have a new dial for the watch-then with a new glass and the movement overhauled this will be a very nice watch

    IMG_6473.JPG
     
  15. Allan C. Purcell

    Allan C. Purcell Registered User
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    IMG_6475.JPG IMG_6472.JPG IMG_6471.JPG IMG_6470.JPG IMG_6469.JPG IMG_6468.JPG Photographs just for the record.

    Case maker is CJ Chrisopher Kones Gold Smith & Jewller & watch case maker. page 82 in Philip priestley´s new book. 1823-1858.
     
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  16. John Matthews

    John Matthews Registered User
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    Allan - are you sure it's a 'D'?

    This is from you original post #55 - looks to be a Chester 'Q' for 1854 to me .. The maker's mark CJ in oval (Priestley style '3') - Christopher Jones (I'm sure you intended to type J not K) - the second entry on the following page (83).

    John

    upload_2018-11-1_17-33-44.png
     
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  17. Allan C. Purcell

    Allan C. Purcell Registered User
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    John Thank you for your observations-good of you to take the trouble. You will have noticed above I did say Q for 1854-and CJ for the case maker. My problem was, when the watch arrived I looked and looked at that date mark, and you will notice it is closed at the top. whereas the Q is open Plus the cameo used by Jones squashes each corner which gives this D the impression of a Q-plus the marks are very small. I think what changed my mind was the fact the watch has a Massey three. That of course is not conclusive-and you could well be right. Thanks Allan.
     
  18. Allan C. Purcell

    Allan C. Purcell Registered User
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    A new update. John. I think post 51 will be of interest to you.

    [​IMG]
     

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  19. Rich Newman

    Rich Newman Chair
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    Another good quality Cragg-signed movement cased in NYC. Dial also marked John Cragg London. Gold hands.
    Movement engraved John Cragg, 8 Northampton Square, London. Seems Coventry finishing; notice the four arrows mark right at the center of the regulator index.
    Cap engraved Made Expressly for S.D. Rockwell, New York.
    18K gold case also with maker's mark S.D. Rockwell. Note the "R". Does anyone knows what it means. Perhaps a date letter?

    Cragg 1.jpg Cragg 2.jpg cragg 3.jpg Cragg 4.jpg Cragg 5.jpg
     
  20. Keith R...

    Keith R... Registered User
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    Case maker could be identifying with Birmingham HM, 1866.

    Keith R...
     
  21. John Matthews

    John Matthews Registered User
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    Hi Rich - not sure of the connection with Roskell - perhaps i missing something

    However, very interested in the watch as it has a similar cap to that I have described here. Awaiting delivery of the watch and will then continue with its story.

    For your watch, I assume you have details of Samuel Darling Rockwell the silversmith and importer, perhaps, but just in case ...

    upload_2019-1-4_9-23-3.png

    John
     
  22. Allan C. Purcell

    Allan C. Purcell Registered User
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    Rich-Thank you for remembering the Cragg questions at post1. That is truly an interesting watch-the dial says after 1850 fo me-if it is original-John Cragg as far as I can tell was an wholesaler of quality watches. That "R" on your case looks to me to be a trade mark-some would say a springers initial-but I will stay with a trade mark. Maybe someone out there knows- Best wishes, Allan.
     
  23. Allan C. Purcell

    Allan C. Purcell Registered User
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    I spent some time today looking for the house of Robert Roskell in Gateacre -near Woolton-both now of course part of the city of Liverpool. Of interest to those interested in the Roskell story will find "Liverpool South West Lancashire FHS-Forum" of interest-there is a good copy of the Church record of Robert Roskells second marrige to Ann Kaye, plus the Marrige Licence. Also an early map of the area. There is also a few people on there saying where Gateacre house was situated, but no explanation as to what happened to the house. Does anyone know exactly where it stood. According to some it stood where the post office was-but its not clear. Below the Wikipadia information..It would be nice if it had been the Black Bull public house, I could then have a pint in there and wish Robert Roskell well. Easy to get there too, on the M62 into Liverpool, just a bit to left as you enter the city. If it helps those who like to research, there is a small list of people who lived in the house after the Roskells, they were John Tophan, and then John Weston, and then James Lieshman. I am now off to look up those names in Picton.-Regards, Allan.





    Gateacre
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    Not to be confused with the movie Gattaca, pronounced similarly.
    Gateacre
    240px-Black_Bull%2C_Gateacre_Village.jpg
    The 'Mock Tudor' style Black Bull pub in Gateacre Village
    240px-Merseyside_UK_location_map.svg.png
    [​IMG]
    Gateacre
    Gateacre shown within Merseyside
    OS grid reference SJ428877
    Metropolitan borough
    Metropolitan county
    Region
    Country England
    Sovereign state United Kingdom
    Post town LIVERPOOL
    Postcode district L25
    Dialling code 0151

    Police Merseyside
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    Ambulance North West
    EU Parliament North West England
    UK Parliament
    List of places
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    17px-WMA_button2b.png 53.3831°N 2.861°WCoordinates: 17px-WMA_button2b.png 53.3831°N 2.861°W
    Gateacre (/ˈɡætəkər/ ( 11px-Loudspeaker.svg.png listen)) is an affluent suburb of Liverpool, England, about 6 miles (9.7 km) from the city centre. It is bordered by Childwall, Woolton and Belle Vale. The area is noted for its Tudor Revival architecture and contains over 100 listed buildings within a quarter-mile radius of the village centre, making it one of the most important historic areas in the city.[1]

    Gateacre can trace its roots back to at least the 12th century, although it was not until the mid-seventeenth century that the name was first used to refer to the area. It remained a primarily rural village until the nineteenth century, when it began to grow rapidly as new transport links and businesses developed. Gateacre was officially absorbed into Liverpool in 1913, however it was not until the post-war period that it became part of city's metropolitan area. In the 1950s and 1960s, large scale housing developments occurred in and around Gateacre, while a new comprehensive school and shopping centre were built. In 1969, in order to protect the area's historic buildings, Gateacre was declared a conservation area, becoming one of the first in Liverpool.

    Contents
    History
    Toponymy
    The name Gateacre (pronounced gat-acca, not gate-acre) was first used in the mid-16th century to refer to the area that had previously been part of the townships of 'Little' and 'Much' Woolton.[2] The origin of the name is not fully known, although there are two parallel theories on where it may have come from. The first explanation suggests that the name may derive from 'gata' - meaning path or 'the way' in Middle English - to the 'acre field' of Much Woolton (which approximately encompasses what is modern day Woolton).[2][3] An alternative suggestion is that the name may have developed from the Anglo-Saxon term gāt-æcer, which means a "newly cultivated plot where goats are kept".[2]

    Origins and early history
    The origins of modern-day Gateacre date back to at least the 12th century, to the historic townships of Much Woolton and Little Woolton.[4] Much Woolton was centred on the nearby village of Woolton, with Little Woolton covering an almost entirely rural area adjacent to it. The area that would later become Gateacre was situated on the boundary between the two townships. The present day Halewood Road and Grange Lane approximately sit on the path of a former packhorse trail, which went from Hale to West Derby.[3]

    The ownership of the land changed numerous times over the next several hundred years, with Gateacre remaining a primarily rural area. There are records of several buildings and tenants on the land,[4] although it wasn't until the mid 16th century that Gateacre was referred to, as a place in its own right.[2]

    The oldest surviving buildings in Gateacre are Grange Lodge, which dates to the late 17th century, and the Unitarian Chapel, which was built in 1700 for the local English Presbyterian congregation.[5] Although Gateacre remained a mainly rural area until the nineteenth century, maps from the eighteenth century do show the crossroads in the centre of the Village. Subsequently, Gateacre was likely a central point for travellers across the region and it is during this period that both the Black Bull and Bear & Ragged Staff (today known as just the Bear and Staff) Inns emerged, providing shelter and accommodation for those travelling through the village.[3]

    Nineteenth century and rapid growth
    During the late eighteenth and early nineteenth centuries, Gateacre became an increasingly attractive 'rural retreat' for the wealthy classes who owned and ran businesses in Liverpool, Widnes or Warrington.[5] Numerous 'luxury' villas and rural cottages were constructed during this time, using sandstone and brick from the local quarry in Woolton,[6] and many of these buildings survive to the present day.[7]

    230px-Jubilee_Memorial_and_Black_Bull%2C_Gateacre%2C_Liverpool.jpg
    The Jubilee Memorial is located on Gateacre's village green, in front of the Black Bull pub
    Gateacre only really began to grow as a village in the nineteenth century. Employment opportunities in the area began to expand beyond agriculture, with the opening of the Gateacre Brewery in the mid-nineteenth century[8] and a local telephone exchange in 1889.[9] Gateacre railway station also opened in 1879, on the Cheshire Lines Committee's North Liverpool Extension Line, providing the area with a direct link to Liverpool Central station.[10][11] It was during this period that there was also a significant shift in architectural styling, with black and white 'mock-Tudor' becoming highly popular.

    In the mid-to-late nineteenth century, several notable residents moved into Gateacre, including Sir Andrew Barclay Walker (the man who built the Walker Art Gallery as a gift to Liverpool) and John Hays Wilson (who was the Chairman of the Liverpool Council Water Committee).[7] In 1877, Walker provided land adjacent to Halewood Road for the construction of a new Church of England school, with the school's previous premises on Grange Lane being converted into a reading room (The building is today home to the Gateacre Institute).[12] Following Wilson's death in 1881, the people of Gateacre erected the Wilson Memorial Fountain in honour of his work for Liverpool.[12] The monument was located in a prominent position on the village green, which was at the time owned by Walker. In 1887, four years after the monument was erected, Walker decided to give the green to the local council, in commemoration of Queen Victoria's Golden Jubilee. He commissioned his nephew Count Gleichen to sculpt a bronze bust of the Queen to be placed upon it.[7]

    Twentieth century and incorporation into Liverpool
    Gateacre was officially absorbed into Liverpool in 1913, although the area was at the time still relatively rural.[11] In the post-war period and, in particular, the 1960s, large scale housing developments occurred throughout Gateacre. New housing estates were developed off Grange Lane, while the increased demand for rehousing in the city led to the construction of cheap pre-fabricated housing around Belle Vale Road. In 1957, Gateacre Comprehensive School (today known as Gateacre Community Comprehensive School), the UK's first purpose built comprehensive school opened on Grange Lane. The school relocated to Belle Vale in 2011.

    As the urban sprawl of Liverpool continued, a new shopping centre was constructed in what is now Belle Vale and the area was soon engulfed within the city.[11] In order to protect the area's historic buildings, Gateacre was subsequently designated a conservation area in the city, whilst the natural assets around Gateacre Grange were protected through the city's first tree preservation order.[11] On 15 April 1972, Gateacre railway station closed to passengers, with the last freight trains running along the line in 1975. Despite hopes that the station would be re-opened, the tracks were removed in 1979 and the line now forms part of the Trans Pennine Trail.[10]

    In 2008, as part of Liverpool's year-long celebrations as the European Capital of Culture, Gateacre became home to Tudorlambanana, one of 125 replica Superlambananas created throughout the city. Located in the centre of Gateacre Village, Tudorlambanana was designed by students at Gateacre Community Comprehensive School based upon the distinct mock Tudor architecture in the area.[13]

    Description
    Gateacre is today a largely affluent suburb of Liverpool, containing mainly residential premises. Housing is primarily a mix of large detached and semi-detached properties, although older terraced housing remains, particularly around Gateacre Village. More recent developments, such as Woodsome Park on the site of the former Gateacre Hall Hotel, have increased the number of apartment properties in the area. The majority of the housing dates from the post-war period, particularly the 1960s, when the area grew into and became part of the Liverpool conurbation.

    Architecture
    The variety of architectural styles in Gateacre is considerable and is reflective of the long history of the area.[14] Due to the array of styles and the fact that many of the original buildings survive, Gateacre was designated a conservation area within the city of Liverpool in 1969, one of the first in the country.[6] In total there are over 100 listed buildings within a quarter-mile radius of the village centre, making the area one of the most important historic locations in the city.[1]

    Generally the majority of buildings in and around the village date from the early nineteenth century, although there are buildings that date back as far as the late seventeenth century. The area's proximity to the sandstone quarry in Woolton (the same material from which Liverpool's Anglican Cathedral was constructed) means this is the dominant building material along with red brick and slate for the roofs.[6] In the late nineteenth century the 'black-and-white' or 'Mock Tudor' style became more common and is today synonymous with the area.[7]

    220px-Church_Cottages%2C_Gateacre%2C_Liverpool.jpg
    The Church Cottages on Belle Vale Road are an example of mock-Tudor design that Gateacre is known for
    Gateacre Brow is noted for its late-Georgian and early-Victorian era villas, which were constructed to be different from, yet complementary to the neighbouring buildings.[15] Built from sandstone ashlar, the villas complement more moderate brick built houses that were constructed during the same period.[14] Also on Gateacre Brow are several slightly modified ashlar houses that have mock-Tudor facades, all of which are Grade II listed buildings.[15]

    Grange Lane, which is home to the area's oldest building - Grange Lodge, is noted for a series of cottage and farm buildings. The oldest of these, the Grade II listed Paradise Cottages, were built at the beginning of the eighteenth century from rough sandstone, with ashlar lintels above the windows and boarded and studded doors. Also Grade II listed are the York cottages, which were built in the early nineteenth century. Set back from the road itself, the buildings are noted for their arched doors, blind fanlights and sliding sash windows.[16] A later addition were the Soarer Cottages, which were constructed by William Hall Walker - later to come Baron Wavertree - in 1896. These 'model' cottages were built adjacent to a series of polo stables, which are today known as Grange Mews, that had been constructed for Walker in 1895.[12] The Soarer cottages were designed in Tudor Style with an open front courtyard and built from brick, with panelled stone-mullioned windows.[17]

    On Belle Vale Road, on land adjacent to the Church of St. Stephen are the Church Cottages. Built in the late-nineteenth century the cottages were built from a combination of timber and brick in mock-Tudor style. One of their most noted features are the large diagonally set chimneys.[18] Also on Belle Vale Road are a series of early-nineteenth century houses built from sandstone ashlar with slate roofs.[17]

    Buildings
    Name Image Description Ref(s)
    The Black Bull Public House 100px-Black_Bull%2C_Gateacre_Village.jpg The Black Bull Public House is located in the centre of Gateacre Village overlooking the village green. The building, which has a half-timber frame and is designed in mock-Tudor style, has a cobbled forecourt adjacent to the green, and is generally recognised as the symbol of Gateacre. It is believed to have been originally constructed during the eighteenth century, providing shelter and accommodation for travellers passing through the area. The pub was extensively redeveloped at the end of the nineteenth century by Sir Andrew Barclay Walker, when it was given its current look. [3][12][19]
    The Church of St. Stephen 100px-St._Stephens_Church%2C_Gateacre%2C_Liverpool.jpg The Church of St. Stephen is located on Belle Vale road and was constructed between 1872 and 1874. It was designed by the architect Cornelius Sherlock, who also designed the Picton Reading Room on William Brown Street in the city centre. The church was built from local sandstone and has a tall octagonal tower on one side that at one time would have dominated the skyline (today the church is surrounded by housing so it is less imposing). The building's exterior is adorned with Gothic style decorations, whilst the stained glass windows in the church were provided by the architect and designer William Morris. [18]
    Clegg's Felt Factory
    The Clegg's felt factory (formally the Gateacre Brewery) sits at the bottom of Gateacre Brow opposite the village green and was built around the late 1860s or early 1870s. A grade II listed building, it was originally a Brewery until the 1920s when it was converted into a felt factory. Clegg's ceased operating from the factory in 2003. The building is three storeys high and was built using a variety of coloured bricks. In 2005 plans were submitted to convert the building into a series of residential apartments. As the building is listed, part of the redevelopment has seen restoration of many of the original Victorian features. [8][20][21]
    Gateacre Unitarian Chapel
    The Gateacre Unitarian Chapel building is situated on Gateacre Brow, just up from the village green. It was constructed in 1700, making it one of the oldest churches in Liverpool, being further expanded in 1719. Like many other buildings in Gateacre, it was built from sandstone from the local quarry in Woolton. Alongside the Chapel is a small graveyard and the smaller Chapel Hall, which bears a significant resemblance to the main building itself. [9][14]
    No. 28 Gateacre Brow
    No. 28 Gateacre Brow sits on the corner of the junction with Sandfield Road. It was built in 1889 by the National Telephone Company to house a local telephone exchange. The Grade II listed building was designed by the architect Walter Aubrey Thomas, who is more famously known as the architect of The Liver Building. The building came under the ownership of the General Post Office in 1911, although it remained a manned telephone exchange until 1946, when an automated system was installed. During the early-to-mid twentieth century the building was also home to several financial institutions including Parr's Bank (which in 1920 became part of Westminster Bank) and later with the Prudential Assurance Company. The building's ground floor was constructed using locally sourced red sandstone, with brackets supporting the plaster and timber upper levels. On the north-west corner of the building is an octagonal turret with bell shaped roof, which is one of its most noted features. The building's mock-Tudor facade is decorated with 3-dimensional plaster panels that depict various stories from the bible. [9]
    The Wilson Memorial Fountain 100px-Wilson_Memorial_Fountain%2C_Gateacre%2C_Liverpool.jpg The Wilson Memorial Fountain was built in 1883 by the people of Gateacre in honour of John Hays Wilson, the chairman of the Liverpool Water Authority. It was built in recognition of the development of water supplies in Liverpool, in particular due to the construction of a reservoir at Lake Vyrnwy in North Wales. The open-sided octagonal monument surrounds a drinking fountain and is noted for the sculpted panels that adorn its sides. The intricate designs include many mythical creatures such as dragons, gargoyles, mermaids and the liver bird, the symbol of Liverpool. [19][22]
    References
    1. Nicholls, Robert (2005). Curiosities of Merseyside. Sutton Publishing.
    Bibliography
    External links
    30px-Commons-logo.svg.png Wikimedia Commons has media related to Gateacre.

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    • Moscardini, p52
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  24. Allan C. Purcell

    Allan C. Purcell Registered User
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    2nd. Feb.2019 up-date.

    [​IMG]
     

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  25. Omexa

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    Hi, here we are Allan. A Robert Roskell Rack Lever with a 15 teeth escape Wheel. Not sure on the Date of Case. Photos taken in the light in Kitchen; no Sunlight on Balcony. Sorry Allan; it is already in List. Regards Ray

    1.jpg 2.jpg 3.jpg 4.jpg
     
  26. Allan C. Purcell

    Allan C. Purcell Registered User
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    #76 Allan C. Purcell, Feb 2, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2019
    I am pleased you posted 23612-if you know its on the list-then you know it is listed as a movement, and the info came from the NAWCC .(did you list it sometime on the board without its case?) Now it shows up cased Chester 1814. So I will up-date the file. I notice too the NL for the sponsor.Nathaniel Lee (Son of Nicholson Lee) watch & Case maker-his dates are 1818-29 before that he could have used his fathers mark-or it is the father. In 1818 he was at 32 Leeds Street-then catch this 1821 he was at 36, Ray Street, 1823-30 2 Ray Street Liverpool.Regards, Allan.

    PS; Changed-Private Collection-You wont see it till the next up-date, could be a couple of months away.
     
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  27. Omexa

    Omexa Registered User
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    Hi Allan, I think that is the Case that I got it with; the hole to wind it lines up properly. Regards Ray
     
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  28. Keith R...

    Keith R... Registered User
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    Allan, while you are "Altering" files, my #7414 does not belong to ebay, it belongs to me. I've watched
    the file get "altered" 5 times and it still says ebay. Keith R...

    jj400 (800x600).jpg jj401 (800x600).jpg jj399 (800x690).jpg jj402 (800x600).jpg
     
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  29. Allan C. Purcell

    Allan C. Purcell Registered User
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    When I enter a Roskell on the file-I acknowledge were I found it-I do not try and trace the who bought it from ebay-now if someone tells me they own a watch, and ask me to list it in their name I will do that, but I prefere to put Private Collector" you never know do you-so which would you like- by the way I dont alter files-I up-date them when needed .Alter gives the wrong impression. Are they your photographs Keith-they are very good. Below two photographs I took a couple of minutes ago in my shoe box studio-a Roskell Liverpool runner c1824. Massey three.(The case is a marriage Birmingham 1814).

    IMG_6931.JPG IMG_6932.JPG IMG_6921.JPG
     
  30. Keith R...

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    Allan, I own #7414 Roskell. The photos are mine, the hand holding the movement, belongs
    to the seller.:D

    Keith R...
     
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  31. Omexa

    Omexa Registered User
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    #81 Omexa, Feb 2, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2019
    I sent Allan a PM
     
  32. Allan C. Purcell

    Allan C. Purcell Registered User
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    Hi Keith and Ray.

    Thenks for reminding me I have to many Roskell watches, I spent some time last night looking at some of them again-and come across the one below. I am not sure about this movement-I think it started life as a Rack Lever, but it now has a Single Table Roller Escapment. There are none of the usual signs of conversion-and I have another like this by Moon of London. It looks like some-one just put in the STR in the Rack slide and of it goes. I cannot say how it would run when made, it needs a good clean. Though it is interesting. I do not think it was done in 1814/15. Regards,Allan

    IMG_6946.JPG IMG_6945.JPG IMG_6944.JPG IMG_6943.JPG
     
  33. Omexa

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    Hi Allan, I like the Snake on the Balance Cock; I have an Irish Watch "John Walker of Dublin" with a Snake on it with an Arrow shaped tongue. Regards Ray
     
  34. Omexa

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    Photo

    1.jpg
     
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  35. Allan C. Purcell

    Allan C. Purcell Registered User
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    Ray very nice snake-could you try and keep on the thread please-we are talking here about Robert Roskell. now if you have a Roskell with a snake, a chicken, a Liver-bird, or even an HO HO bird that woulfd nice, and then you could add the size, the escapement, and short story of where he lived when he was in London-have you read his Will, if not I can send you a copy- hope you are not in the floods out there-on the news to-day they say you have to watch out for croc´s-Regards, Allan.
     
  36. Allan C. Purcell

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    20/02/2019

    [​IMG]
     

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  37. Allan C. Purcell

    Allan C. Purcell Registered User
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    Just another up date.23/02/2019

    [​IMG]
     

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  38. Allan C. Purcell

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    #88 Allan C. Purcell, Jun 15, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2019
    For those interested in Robert Roskell I have a couple of questions, the do you know type. Firstly No. 14464 Signed Robt. Roskell, London, and they say it´s hallmarked for 1845. There is no photograph of the movement. They also don´t say what the escapement is (Not in English anyway). This is the first watch I have found between 10269 and 20145, but I don´t think it as anything to do with the Robert Roskell Snr. I think this watch was sold by Hunt and Roskell in London, though I need more of these watches to get more facts, can anyone help here??

    Regards,
    Allan

    . 1-20.jpg 1-21.jpg Robt.Roskell London 14464

    [​IMG]
     

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  39. Allan C. Purcell

    Allan C. Purcell Registered User
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    New information on Robert Roskell 37689. For Roskell fans please look at pages 13, 33, and 34.

    Best wishes, Allan

    [​IMG]
     

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  40. Allan C. Purcell

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  41. On_the_verge

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    #91 On_the_verge, Sep 20, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2019
    Hello!

    Here are some photos of the Roskell 30 tooth rack lever i just acquired, the serial number is #32664 and the case is hallmarked 1824 in Chester.
    The makers mark "IW" also appears on #35593 but since the Chester records are incomplete i haven't been able to find any information about the maker.

    Regards Erik

    roskell32664_dial.png roskell32664_case.png roskell32664_cap.png roskell32664_cap+mvmt.png roskell32664_mvmt.png roskell32664_marks.png
     
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  42. On_the_verge

    On_the_verge Registered User

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  43. John Matthews

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    Erik I believe the case maker is James Walker of Chester - listed in Ridgeway & Priestley see here

    John
     
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  44. On_the_verge

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    Thanks for the information John!

    Regards Erik
     
  45. Allan C. Purcell

    Allan C. Purcell Registered User
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    Hello Erik, Thank you for posting the above watch, it is most interesting there are only 7, 32,000´s in the file, and yours will be the eighth. The clear photograph of the hallmarks are very good too, and I would like to post them on the "Chester Hallmarks-Photographed" thread if you don´t mind. The "F" is already there, but your example shows how distorted the leopards head could get. Another point on the hallmark, Chester1824/25, I would have thought it would be c1820/21 No.32259 is hallmarked 1820/21 also 32782. Though they are the only ones hallmarked the rest are just movements. To the I.W for the case maker, I think you can rely on John Matthews, he is very good when it comes to Chester hallmarks. I will now add your watch to the Numbers File-thank you again for posting this example.
     
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  46. On_the_verge

    On_the_verge Registered User

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    Hello Allan!
    Thanks for your input, Go ahead and use the picture if you wish.
    Regards Erik
     
  47. Allan C. Purcell

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  48. Allan C. Purcell

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    Up-date. Please look at page thirty five-if you have information on this type of watch by Roskell, please get in touch.

    R. ROSKELL Numbers..pdf
     

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  49. Allan C. Purcell

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  50. Allan C. Purcell

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    THE LONDON GAZETTE. SATURDAY; OCTOBER 8, 1814.

    By order of the court for the Relief of Insolvent Debtors; the petition of Braham Isaacs, formerly of Deansgate Manchester, in the County of Lancaster, Jeweller, but last of King Street, Deptford, in the County of Kent, slopseller, and co-partner with Aaron Barnard, of Deptford aforesaid, under the stile and firm of Barnard and Co., and now a prisoner for debt in the Kings Bench prison, will be heard on the 1st. day of November next, at the Guildhall in the city of Westminster, at the hour of nine in the morning. The petition and schedule are filed in the office of the said Court. No.59, Milbank Street, Westminster.

    One of the creditors was Robert Roskell, Church Street, Liverpool, Lancaster, patent watchmaker. ( I take it the Patent was that of Peter Litherland, which he had bought)
     

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