Richard Sill of the Wigton school of clockmakers 1705 ish?

Discussion in 'General Clock Discussions' started by novicetimekeeper, Aug 9, 2017.

  1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  1. novicetimekeeper

    novicetimekeeper Registered User

    Jul 26, 2015
    9,157
    470
    83
    Male
    retired and on my second career
    Dorset
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Not a whole clock sadly, just a dialplate, and even more sad it is missing its westmorland style date wheel.

    According to Brian Loomes only 7 clocks are known, all 30 hours, some with lantern style turned posts and some with rectangular posts. I have no idea which this would have been.

    Dating is always difficult with Northern clocks, but there are clocks by the same maker dated as 1710 and 1715 which have a later style of minute numbering on the chapter ring, so I think this is earlier, possibly among the first known. The style of signature is the same as others in the wigton school used in 1705.

    I love it already, I really like cup and ring decoration.

    It will join my collection of dial plates, I see them as art and have them framed and on the wall.

    312923.jpg 312924.jpg
     

    Attached Files:

  2. novicetimekeeper

    novicetimekeeper Registered User

    Jul 26, 2015
    9,157
    470
    83
    Male
    retired and on my second career
    Dorset
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
  3. P.Hageman

    P.Hageman Registered User

    Jul 20, 2014
    733
    38
    28
    Forensic science
    The Netherlands
    Country Flag:
    Nick, I think your dial is a little bit later. Sill died in 1729, think this one is his later work. His earlier work had a different style of half hour markers. Just look at the picture from my Richard Sill clock. 312931.jpg
     
  4. novicetimekeeper

    novicetimekeeper Registered User

    Jul 26, 2015
    9,157
    470
    83
    Male
    retired and on my second career
    Dorset
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Yes, my initial thought was it was later, but looking at the style of minute numbering on the chapter ring, which in anything down here would be 1700 or earlier, got me thinking. They clearly did follow a timeline.

    Then I checked out all the Wigton school examples I could and found that the ones dated 1710 and on all have the later style of numbering.

    The signature suggests it is in the early period, the lozenge half hour markers are, I think, misleading.

    You know much more about the Wigton school than I do, but that's my reasoning.
     
  5. novicetimekeeper

    novicetimekeeper Registered User

    Jul 26, 2015
    9,157
    470
    83
    Male
    retired and on my second career
    Dorset
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Looking back Peter you promised us pics of your Richard Sill some time ago when you showed us your cup and ring hook and spike.

    We have a cup and ring area around Oxfordshire as well as the one around the Lakes. I only have one other dialplate with cup and ring. That one is unsigned and has floating lozenge half hour markers.
     
  6. rmarkowitz1_cee4a1

    rmarkowitz1_cee4a1 Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Nov 26, 2009
    4,704
    583
    113
    Country Flag:
    Lovely dial and you are not alone in your appreciation of the art of the clock dial. Many are worthy of interest and yes, hanging like a piece of period art. They really are the "face" of the clock.

    In the US, there was a time when the painted wooden dials (tall case and shelf) were appreciated and collected as "folk art". I can recall pictures of displays on walls in publications devoted to antiques, decorating, interior design and so on. I have even sold a few with some wonderful theorem-like painted flowers, scenes, etc.

    The interest and hence the market has rather declined in the past few years.

    Sadly, there were some individuals who found that they were paid more $$ and were able to sell more readily just the dial as opposed to a completed clock. Much easier to store, transport and display, too. This resulted in cannibalizing complete clocks for their dials with the rest junked.

    RM
     
  7. novicetimekeeper

    novicetimekeeper Registered User

    Jul 26, 2015
    9,157
    470
    83
    Male
    retired and on my second career
    Dorset
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Clock breaking is a way to make money here, but I despise it. You can buy longcase at auction very cheaply and then sell the parts on ebay for quite a decent profit usually. I don't really object if it is breaking up a recent marriage, but the people who do it don't care if it is original or not.

    In this case though the clock would be worth more than its component parts.

    It is a sad time for clocks but some names will still command a premium.
     
  8. P.Hageman

    P.Hageman Registered User

    Jul 20, 2014
    733
    38
    28
    Forensic science
    The Netherlands
    Country Flag:
    Nick, since we like the same type of clock, I wondered if you know the maker of this early clock? To make it a bit easier, its quite a wellknown maker in England, known for a special type of clock. 312970.jpg
     
  9. novicetimekeeper

    novicetimekeeper Registered User

    Jul 26, 2015
    9,157
    470
    83
    Male
    retired and on my second career
    Dorset
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    No idea, but I really like the half hour markers and the hand.
     
  10. P.Hageman

    P.Hageman Registered User

    Jul 20, 2014
    733
    38
    28
    Forensic science
    The Netherlands
    Country Flag:
    #10 P.Hageman, Aug 10, 2017
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2017
    Its made by Walter Archer, Stow on the Wold, unrestored condition (I will keep it that way) according to Mr. Loomes 1700 - 1710. Those half hour markers are Archer's trade mark.:)

    By the way, could you post a close up of the Sill signature? I am curious if there are any differences in yours and mine. 313039.jpg
     
  11. novicetimekeeper

    novicetimekeeper Registered User

    Jul 26, 2015
    9,157
    470
    83
    Male
    retired and on my second career
    Dorset
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Yes I know Archer, from his lantern clocks. One was sold not that long ago, did you buy it?

    I don't have the dialplate yet, the auctioneer let me have the pictures for use.

    Once it arrives I will take some close ups. Who knows, I may find something on the back of the chapter ring again.

    I spoke to the guy who used to own yours, he suggested 1720 too, but nobody has shown me one with a chapter ring to suit that timeline yet so I'm not entirely convinced.

    EDIT It looks like the signatures are very different.
     
  12. P.Hageman

    P.Hageman Registered User

    Jul 20, 2014
    733
    38
    28
    Forensic science
    The Netherlands
    Country Flag:
    Nick, would be nice to compare the signatures to see if there's any progress in the way of engraving/
     
  13. novicetimekeeper

    novicetimekeeper Registered User

    Jul 26, 2015
    9,157
    470
    83
    Male
    retired and on my second career
    Dorset
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Here you are Peter, arrived in the post while I was out collecting a clock from an Auction house so a busy day.


    314297.jpg
     

    Attached Files:

  14. P.Hageman

    P.Hageman Registered User

    Jul 20, 2014
    733
    38
    28
    Forensic science
    The Netherlands
    Country Flag:
    Nice dial and signature. Think it was the same person who engraved both dials. However some small differences, style is the same.
     
  15. P.Hageman

    P.Hageman Registered User

    Jul 20, 2014
    733
    38
    28
    Forensic science
    The Netherlands
    Country Flag:
    I took some picture of the countwheel and hourwheel of my Sill clock. You can clearly see, Sill worked in Sanderson his workshop or he got scrap brass from Sanderson. Sill scrapped a Sanderson dial to make his own parts. You can still see last part of the Sanderson signature and "fecit". This is why I like those early rural clocks :coolsign: 314330.jpg 314329.jpg
     

    Attached Files:

  16. novicetimekeeper

    novicetimekeeper Registered User

    Jul 26, 2015
    9,157
    470
    83
    Male
    retired and on my second career
    Dorset
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    That's wonderful, I'm always hoping to find things like that but have not so far.
     
  17. Allan C. Purcell

    Allan C. Purcell Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Feb 9, 2013
    2,046
    617
    113
    Male
    retired
    Germany
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Hi Nick- You may have seen these before, though I thought it would help to see another signature by Still. These out of Robey.


    IMG_6302.JPG IMG_6303.JPG IMG_6304.JPG
     

Share This Page