Revealing My Collection #2 & 3

Discussion in 'European & Other Pocket Watches' started by DaveyG, Oct 4, 2019.

  1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  1. DaveyG

    DaveyG Registered User

    Mar 21, 2005
    2,429
    81
    48
    Male
    North Wales, UK
    Country Flag:
    These are, for me at least and probably for everyone else as well, the boring ones. I have to admit to having little interest in verge watches and these are there simply as examples of the type - and the Folland was the first watch that I ever bought.

    FOLLAND - PAIR CASE POCKET WATCH – 1789

    Auctioned as: Silver Pocket watch 1729/30 by Wm Lukin London


    Verge fusee pair cased watch

    Case makers mark: W . L

    The hall mark dates exclude William Lukin as the case maker. Lukin was a London silversmith who was operating in 1729; however, he went bankrupt in 1745 and resigned from the Goldsmith’s Guild in 1755. The maker could be William Laver, who is listed in Jackson’s (main volume) as a maker in London 1792/3. Laver is not listed as a watch case maker in Priestley; however W . L is listed as:


    William Linsey
    2 Bridgewater Gardens
    London.

    Linsey was registered with the Guild of Goldsmiths on 3 May 1794.

    The cases are in reasonable condition. There is some minor fretting between the inner and outer cases. The outer case has a small ding and the catch release pin is missing; the release spring, however is present. There is a silver solder repair to the inner case hinge.


    Hallmark: London 1789


    Movement Wm Folland Exeter No 13159

    William Folland is listed in Baillie as a watchmaker in Exeter 1795. He is also listed in the 1850 Exeter Trade Directory as: William Folland

    Watchmaker
    160 Fore Street
    Exeter

    (Probably Wm Folland jnr)


    The following entry appears in ‘Time In Exeter’; (1)

    FOLLAND, WILLIAM, watchmaker, Fore Street, Exeter Pocket Journal, for 1789. A large map shows his premises as close to the present entrance to the Mint Methodist Church. He was paid £1 1s in 1790 for cleaning and repairing St Olave’s parish clock and subsequently kept it in repair for 5s a year. The St John’s churchwarden’s accounts include payments to him about the clock for 1792 – 96. He lived in St Olave’s parish and was churchwarden in 1811.; he regularly served on juries in the Midsummer Quarter Sessions. Baillie records a watch movement, Wm Folland, Exeter, 1795, in the Horstmann collection. The Exeter Gazette of Saturday, 14 August 1824 records his death: “On Wednesday last, aged 53, Mr William Folland, watchmaker of this city.” I think the age is likely to be incorrect, as it would have him born in 1771 and therefore only 18 yrs old at the time of manufacture of this piece. As apprentices were generally indentured at the age of 14, for 7 years, Folland would not have served his time at 18 years of age.

    It is likely that a William John Folland, who also operated from Fore Street, but at later dates, was his son. W J Folland had a daughter, Frances Victoria Folland, who married Thomas Steele Shapcott in 1855.

    Movement is a verge fusee with Tompion regulator. The movement is very clean and has an engraved hand with pointed finger as the regulator indicator. The chain appears to be wrapped around the barrel of the great wheel. When wound the fusee immediately returns (clicks worn?). In all other respects the movement seems to be there.

    The face has minor blemishes (scratches etc) but no hairlines, cracks or chips. The early bulls eye mineral crystal is scratched and somewhat discoloured.

    The hands are hand fashioned and may be gold. The bull's eye crystal is heavily scratched and is clearly old and possibly original.

    Repairs:

    Repaired November 2003 by Richard Brewster of Hull. New fusee clicks made and fitted; new outer case button made and fitted. The watch now runs the full length of the chain and currently loses just 7 minutes in 24 hrs.


    CONSULAR CASED VERGE – EDWARD GOWER

    Description: Gilded brass consular cased, verge movement watch with winding through the face at the 12 o’clock position. The movement marked:


    Edw Gower
    LONDON
    1798


    CaseMaker’s Mark: None


    Case Maker: Not known


    Case Description: Brass consular case double hinged at the bezel, the hinge is slightly worn. There is a release button, on the pendant, for the bezel and the movement release catch is in the usual position of 6 o’clock. The condition of the inside of the case rear, which is gold plated, is indicative of the original condition of the case; all of the original plating on the outer case has been rubbed off over the years. The case has a very good bulls eye glass. The case refurbished and re-gilded by Mr. Ray Bell in April 2004, at a cost of £65.00

    Movement Maker: There is no record of Edward Gower as a maker in any of the standard reference books (Baillie, Loomes or Britten); enquiries posted on the NAWCC site elicited no response and there is nothing obvious listed on the internet.

    Movement Type: A fusee driven verge with English style balance cock.



    Movement Description: A small movement with fire gilded plates and no dust cover; there are turned cylindrical pillars and an intricately carved balance cock with a symmetrical floral design. The foot of the cock is retained by a blued steel screw and two dowels. One of the dowels locates into one of the plate pillars, whilst the second is secured in a plain cylindrical ‘half pillar’. The decoration on the foot could be floral or flame, with a rosette surrounding the screw and a chiseled border. The regulator is of the bosely style. The bottom plate has a fixed potence for the third wheel, and secures the set up ratchet for the spring barrel and the spring for the case catch.

    The movement, although dirty when received, runs reasonably well, (although out of beat) and with reasonable ‘verge’ accuracy for the full length of the chain. The movement cleaned, serviced and spring barrel set up ratchet replaced by Richard Brewster in June 2004 at a cost of £25.00. The replacement set up ratchet actually fouls the motion works.

    Folland-Dial.JPG Folland-Dial2.JPG Folland-Mov1.JPG Folland-Outer HM.JPG Folland-PInner HM.JPG Gower-Case.JPG Gower-Dial2.JPG Gower-Mov.JPG
     
  2. Keith R...

    Keith R... Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Nov 27, 2012
    5,378
    1,714
    113
    Male
    Retired Sr. Proj. mgr,
    South
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    I'm not used to seeing an active Bosley on a 1798 Verge (Gower). Here's two of mine.

    First Pic, Tompion 1805, 2nd pic, Bosley about 1814.

    Thanks for sharing.

    Keith R...

    jj546 (800x800).jpg bosley.jpg
     
    viclip likes this.
  3. John Matthews

    John Matthews Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Sep 22, 2015
    1,927
    697
    113
    Retired Systems Architect
    France
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Dave,

    Grimwade lists the incuse marks of William Linsey registering first on 3/5/1794 at the Bridgewater Gardens address and then again on 26/9/1795, having moved to Norman Street, St Lukes. I think he was the case maker.

    I wonder if Edward Gower was the first owner and 1798 is the date. I don't have the grasp of the 'dating features' of movements like you and Graham, but the dial looks of about that date with the front winding. Litherland was using Bosley regulators by that time and the cock looks of that date to me.

    Another two fine examples - looking forward to more.

    John
     
    Keith R... likes this.
  4. gmorse

    gmorse Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Jan 7, 2011
    10,241
    1,031
    113
    Male
    Retired from Xerox
    Breamore, Hampshire, UK
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Hi Keith,

    It is quite unusual to find one much earlier than 1800, but Joseph Bosley invented it in 1755, so I find it odd that it took so long to be adopted, especially since it was rather simpler to make than the Tompion type.

    Regards,

    Graham
     
    Keith R... likes this.
  5. DaveyG

    DaveyG Registered User

    Mar 21, 2005
    2,429
    81
    48
    Male
    North Wales, UK
    Country Flag:
    Thanks for your thoughts fellas. I did consider the fact that the Gower may be dated to 1798 but, for me, a combination of the consular case and Bosley regulator mitigated against that. That was my feeling 15 or so yrs ago anyway. When I searched earlier today there was one website that had some information, including one working date and photographs of a watch 'by him'. However, they wanted money for access to that - and I'm not that interested :rolleyes:
     
    Keith R... likes this.
  6. John Matthews

    John Matthews Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Sep 22, 2015
    1,927
    697
    113
    Retired Systems Architect
    France
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Dave - the working date is 1811 on a signed watch #19532 - a capped verge. It has a nice deeply cut cock but the rim has been modified to accommodate a banking pin on the balance wheel. It has a Bosley regulator and a diamond endstone on the balance. Housed in in Joseph Glenny pair cases. The other watch, from the description, is yours! The only other note is that Gower is not recorded in in the 1822 trade directory.
     
    Keith R... likes this.
  7. DaveyG

    DaveyG Registered User

    Mar 21, 2005
    2,429
    81
    48
    Male
    North Wales, UK
    Country Flag:
    I guess I owe you a beer John. Or should that be a bottle of good Italian red ;)
     
    Keith R... and John Matthews like this.

Share This Page