Restoration?? or Trash Can

Discussion in 'Your Newest Clock Acquisition' started by Joseph Bautsch, Dec 8, 2018.

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  1. Joseph Bautsch

    Joseph Bautsch Registered User
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    #1 Joseph Bautsch, Dec 8, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2018
    This is the clock I purchased:
    s-l500.jpg

    This is what the USPS delivered.
    Ansonia Slate Clock.JPG
    I purchased this clock, an Ansonia Black Slate open escapement from a seller in England. (He will give me a full refund, price and shipping.) So that is my "Newest Acquisition". I have received damaged goods in the mail before but this is by far the worst that I have ever seen. All the parts (pieces) are there I even recovered the dust from the bottom of the box not knowing what might be useful to restore. So what would you do, restore? or trash can? The works are in excellent shape, no damage. So that might affect your decision.
     
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  2. novicetimekeeper

    novicetimekeeper Registered User

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    Is any of it actually broken? I can see one bit that might be, otherwise I would reassemble.

    I really don't like clocks going by any form of courier. A crate means it has to be handled properly, but for some reason that's a really expensive option to and from the US.
     
  3. Dave T

    Dave T Registered User
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    What a shame. But, as for me, I would consider it a nice challenge. Sort out the pieces and put it together!
     
  4. brian fisher

    brian fisher Registered User

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    good lord! I am really sorry this happened to you. when I was in college, I used to be a bag tosser for what was then Northwest Airlines and is now Delta. I can say that generally small heavy packages have a tendency to irritate those that handle them. I'm not making any excuses, but from the looks of it, your package got the "special treatment".

    aside from your pride and joy arriving at your doorstep in a pile of rubble, you have to admit there is some irony to be found in all of this. here we have a (really heavy) American clock that was shipped to England. now of all the places in to find a slate open escapement, here you are buying said(really heavy) American clock from England to have it shipped back to 'Murca. that would have been REALLY cool had it worked out.
     
  5. JTD

    JTD Registered User

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    It looks to me as if it could be re-assembled and I would certainly give it a try.

    JTD
     
  6. Chris Radano

    Chris Radano Registered User

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    I am sorry about your loss. This has happened to me. You are very brave to have had a slate clock shipped to you internationally.
    These slate clocks are actually reasonably safe to ship. The problem is they need to be packed sufficiently. If they are wrapped in 4+ layers of bubble wrap (the type with the large air bubbles), and placed in a box with foam peanuts (pressed down so they are compacted), the clock would be as safe as can be expected. To me, double-boxing is not needed, but the box has to be sufficient in size to contain the sufficient amount of packing material. Which brings us to another problem: not all sellers will put the amount of effort, or spend the money on their end to pack the clock correctly. And to me, the problem is how the clock was packed.
    If you plead with the seller to pack the clock well, it may be to no avail. They may actually believe they have packed the clock well enough. But when you receive it, it's all too easy to see where the failure occurred.
    If possible, any foam peanuts and reusable bubble wrap should be saved in case it can be used again. These materials cost money.
    Yes, if all else fails the movement and related parts can be resold. Ever wonder why there are so many Ansonia, and French movements on Ebay?
     
  7. wow

    wow Registered User
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    I bought a nice slate French clock a few years ago that had fallen off a mantle. It looked similar to yours.....a pile of junk. I have found a product called F-26, which is a construction adheasive that comes in a caulking tube. It is the perfect adhesive for slate, ceramic, concrete, plastic, and almost anything else. It is fast drying and is stronger than the original. I glued all the larger pieces of the French clock back together with F-26 and the columns and small pieces with Gorilla super glue. It turned out great. Much time, but worth it. Give it a try. What can you lose?
    https://leechadhesives.com/leech-adhesives-products/f-26-construction-glue/
     
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  8. Chris Radano

    Chris Radano Registered User

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    Using a modern adhesive is a good idea. But take care. I have a clock someone used what I think may have been Gorilla Glue...there is a bit of pink foam protruding out of a joint. That type of glue expands, as stated on it's label.
     
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  9. Joseph Bautsch

    Joseph Bautsch Registered User
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    I hjave now had a chance to look closer at the clock remains. Attached is a photo of the parts that are broken. The F-26 Leech Adhesive looks interesting. I looked it up and boy it is expensive! I have a very large jig saw puzzle to put together and it will take some time fitting everything back to gather. I'll give up dates on its restoration in the "Clock Case and Repair" forum. Don't expect anything real soon, I have several other projects I need to finish before I start this one.

    Broken.jpeg
     
  10. wow

    wow Registered User
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    #10 wow, Dec 9, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2018
    The prices of the F-26 on line are way too high. I buy it at a local builders supply store for about $5.00 per caulk tube. Lowe’s or Home Depot do not carry it. Maybe do a search for dealers who sell it in your area. Here’s the one I did.

    241A365F-D180-456D-B675-1E8FC363365E.jpeg 930AA2AE-0A93-48F8-9B5B-2603B96B766C.jpeg C9B7FD79-D6C5-4FFE-B97F-2402354FFD0D.jpeg
     
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  11. Joseph Bautsch

    Joseph Bautsch Registered User
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    Nice! I'll keep looking. Thanks
     
  12. Joseph Bautsch

    Joseph Bautsch Registered User
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    Found it at a Low's near me, $9.58. Much better price I'll pick one up tomorrow.
     
  13. wow

    wow Registered User
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    Good. It dries fast and hard.?be sure pieces are exact because it cannot be moved after about 15 minutes. Also, plug opening immediately or it will get hard in tube. Good luck.
    Will
     
  14. MartinM

    MartinM Registered User

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    #14 MartinM, Dec 9, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2018
    The one constant in these cases seems to be the seller or their agent considering themselves an expert in packing ("I worked in shipping for 20 years and never had any problems.") are the ones that arrive in the worst condition. I try to tell them the best way to pack anniversary clocks and they ignore the instruction and ship it in separate wrappings that cost more and invariably result in a trashed dome. I recently bought a 90+ pound Eco Magneto 30 station central watchclock drum recorder and the 'packing expert' wrapped it in 2 layers of thin foam and some Saran wrap and put it in a loose-fitting cardboard box. The case is going to require many oak replacement parts to be made and several cast iron and bronze parts to be welded/recast.
     
  15. kevin h

    kevin h Registered User

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    Hmmm, My complaints with USPS are trifling compared to yours , I would definitely put it together , and stick with traditional type glues , I have used gorilla glue , but I used it on doors to plug a hole , if you need something stuck to never come apart -it works .
     
  16. novicetimekeeper

    novicetimekeeper Registered User

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    Rather more broken than it appeared in the original pics, you have your work cut out there.
     
  17. jmclaugh

    jmclaugh Registered User

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    Crikey, it looks like someone took a sledge hammer to it, a real shame.
     
  18. John P

    John P Registered User
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    I would not attempt to put that humpty-dumpty clock together. It will always be a trash can clock.
    Search eBay for a better case and fit the movement to it.
     
  19. Joseph Bautsch

    Joseph Bautsch Registered User
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    John P, you are probably correct. But it won't cost me anything but a tube of glue and some time. I'll put it together and see how it comes out and if I don't like it I can toss it in the trash. The works are an Ansonia open escapement and luckily came out of this in good shape. I have another large Ansonia Iron case with a plain works so this one should fit nicely if it comes to that.
     
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  20. JTD

    JTD Registered User

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    I agree with you 100%. You will have a lot of interesting work trying to put it back together and if you succeed, you will have a tremendous feeling of satisfaction. And if you don't, well, at least you tried.

    Give it a go and keep us posted how you get on. Good luck!

    JTD
     
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  21. wow

    wow Registered User
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    At-a-boy, Joe. Give it a try. The one I posted above was in as bad or worse condition when I got it. The columns were all broken in several places. Lots of time and very little money got it back together. It’s very heavy and still very sturdy.
     
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  22. Chris Radano

    Chris Radano Registered User

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    If there are any cracks in highly visible areas of the black slate facade, I would figure there is some kind of wax (possibly black shoe polish built up in layers and smoothed by a squeegee?) That can be applied to disguise any large cracks. Never actually tried this type of repair, but I have imagined repairing this type of case :D
     
  23. JTD

    JTD Registered User

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    I think shoe polish might not dry hard enough - though you could try black furniture-restoring wax sticks if the crack was not too big. But you can color epoxy and other adhesives with black colorant and there are also 'artificial stone' substances which can also be colored.

    JTD
     
  24. Uhralt

    Uhralt Registered User
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    Black shellac, as used to fill the numerals of brass dials, should work to fill in cracks. Available as a big stick at supply houses like timesavers.

    Uhralt
     
  25. Russell Dickson

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    If you are not able to do it yourself I would bring it to your local repair shop or sell it for parts or restoration. A lot of people like the challenge of bring mishandled clocks back to life
     
  26. Joseph Bautsch

    Joseph Bautsch Registered User
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    I've put together more complicated projects than this. It will just take time getting all the pices in place. I got a tube of the F-26 Leech Adhesive at Low's. I got it for $4.75 including tax, good price.
     
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  27. bruce linde

    bruce linde Technical Admin
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    well, yes, sometimes the shipping services are less than careful (doh!)... but this is really on the seller who severely underestimated the weight of the clock and the amount of padding required to insure a safe journey. if they had wrapped it carefully and securely, and then boxed it, and then wrapped it again and put that in a second box it might have survived the trip.

    still sucks, though. 8-(
     
  28. Joseph Bautsch

    Joseph Bautsch Registered User
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    It was double boxed, but the pading came up short considering the fragile slate and weight of the clock. The bright side is that I will get my money back for both shipping and price and I get an Ansonia open escapement works, pendulum, bezel, glass, and hands in good shape to use elsewhere if I can't get the slate case back together.
     
  29. claussclocks

    claussclocks Registered User
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    It appears that most of the major pieces are intact but there is some noticeable breakage. One thing you have to remember about slate clocks is that they are held together with plaster of Paris. A moist environment before it shipped, during shipment, or transit after it came stateside could have contributed to your disaster. Of course, that's kinda like the story of the guy who had decided to hang himself but as the chair was tipping over someone shot him. He still ended up dead. The autopsy only determined if it was murder or suicide.

    I would not be afraid to try and rebuild it. Will never be the same but it will be a true learning experience. The movement appears undamaged so that is a major plus. I come across these cases often at regionals so you might wait and find a very nice case to transplant to later.
     
  30. claussclocks

    claussclocks Registered User
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    I feel his pain. This was a very nice Ansonia that I purchased on Ebay. I sent specific packing instructions. They wrapped one piece of bubble wrap around it and put it in a priority mail box that the clock made the ends bulge out. See what I got!

    IMG_20180705_172844967.jpg IMG_20180705_172832873.jpg IMG_20180705_172909786 (1).jpg
     
  31. Joseph Bautsch

    Joseph Bautsch Registered User
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    This will be the second Ansonia stone case I've had to rebuild. The first one was a light green Onix with the exposed escapement. I gave it to my granddaughter. These clocks are assembled with a base stone (lime stone or cement) then the finish stone is the laminate on top in this case slate. All of it is cemented together with plaster of paris. Claussclocks is right on, if it gets wet or left in a moist atmosphere for a long period of time they tend to come apart.
     
  32. novicetimekeeper

    novicetimekeeper Registered User

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    Sadly packers and shippers seem to have no respect for Newton.

    I usually manage to persude packers to send the weights separately because they do such a poor job of securing anything like that within the box and in the machine handling it causes mayhem.
     
  33. claussclocks

    claussclocks Registered User
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    Warning message to all buyers: Do not put the black slate clock in the bathroom no matter how nicely it contrast with the white tile :eek:
     
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  34. Joseph Bautsch

    Joseph Bautsch Registered User
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    I have reassembled the case. Six photos are attached showing the progress made. It's still not finished. The works have been cleaned but still waiting pivot and bushing polishing and reassembly. That's not a problem. The works, bezel & glass, and dial came through the ordeal with no damage. The case still needs work but the all the broken parts have been reassembled and put together. The first thing I did was to build a jig that held the base parts in place and square so I could work on building it up. As soon as the base was assembled and glued together with its internal sand stone support pieces I removed it from the jig to continue the build. It went together one level at a time. Getting the base square and glued together allowed everything else to fit into place. The slate joints and the sand stone internal parts were glued together using the F-26 Leech Adhesive. The broken slate parts were glued together using a two part slow set epoxy glue. The epoxy made the cracks in the slate not as visable as it dries almost clear. I have ordered a two part black epoxy used in the repair of slate. That will be used to fill in several chipped out areas as well as filling in cracks that are still visible. The photos make it look simple but believe me everything was in parts and broken pieces. It took several days getting everything together where each belongs. If I glued the wrong piece in the wrong place it would have been a very big problem. The glues that were used do not give a second chance.
    Slate Clock #1.jpeg Slate Clock #2.jpeg Slate Clock #3.jpeg Slate Clock #4.jpeg Slate Clock #5.jpeg Slate Clock #6.jpeg
     
  35. Uhralt

    Uhralt Registered User
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    Good idea to start by making the jig! Impressive work to bring that case back to life.

    Uhralt
     
  36. Dave T

    Dave T Registered User
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    I'm impressed! Nice job.
     
  37. wow

    wow Registered User
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    Great job, Joseph. The jig idea is one I will remember. The F-26 is so strong it cannot be pried apart. The slate will break first. Glad you were able to get it together. I have also used black Kiwi shoe polish on slate like yours. It is an easy way to get a nice shine. Show us the final restoration with the dial and movement when you get that far.
    On many of these, the carved sections are brass or are finished in a brass color. Does yours appear to have been gold colored originally?
     
  38. Burkhard Rasch

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    Congratulations,it´s a joy to see the resurection of this impressive clock!
    Burkhard
     
  39. Joseph Bautsch

    Joseph Bautsch Registered User
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    It's still not done. I still have to add the columns, the dome at the top and the finish the works. At this point everything that was broken or came apart has been reassembled. The rest of it should be more routine. I've heard of using shoe polish to get the shine back. Never used it, might give it a try. Slate is an auful stone to use for anything. Its at the bottom end of the stone polishing scale. Its pourous, easily stained, scratched, and chipped all of which is about imposible to get out. I'm a big fan of making jigs to hold things that need to be bent, glued or worked on in some way. My free hand artistic level is near zero. I spend more time building jigs than anything else. I'll post the final result. Thanks for the comments.
     
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  40. Joseph Bautsch

    Joseph Bautsch Registered User
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    WOW, all of the brass was originally finished in black. It was a solid black clock. Some of the black finish on the brass parts is worn down or off with the brass showing through. I will leave that as is.
     
  41. Uhralt

    Uhralt Registered User
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    You got lucky that your case was restorable. Look what I received a while ago. Not a chance....

    Uhralt trash.JPG
     
  42. Joseph Bautsch

    Joseph Bautsch Registered User
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    If you want to take the time even that can be put back together. If you Gppgle "Milliput Terracotta Red Epoxy Putty 2 Part Stick Mould Filler Repair 113g / 4oz" you will find a red two part epoxy (from the UK). This is just a large jig saw puzzle. The red epoxy can be used as a filler in the cracks as well as glueing the pieces together. It will be a challenge but doable. Hope you got your money back.
     
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  43. JTD

    JTD Registered User

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    I agree - if it were mine, I'd certainly have a go at putting it together again.

    JTD
     
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  44. Uhralt

    Uhralt Registered User
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    I tried, but there were too many small pieces, like gravel, as seen in the middle of the picture. I had no idea where they needed to go. I gave up and sent it all back to the seller. I got reimbursed, but if the clock had arrived undamaged I would have gotten it for a real bargain price.
    Uhralt
     
  45. JTD

    JTD Registered User

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    Yes, I guess it was pretty 'granulated'. Glad you got reimbursed but sorry for the sad end for a nice clock.

    JTD
     
  46. claussclocks

    claussclocks Registered User
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    Looking very good. I like the building jig.
     
  47. Phil G4SPZ

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    Congratulations Joseph on that heroic and inspirational restoration.

    Phil
     
  48. D.th.munroe

    D.th.munroe Registered User
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    Great job Joseph. I've repaired a couple like that and now I have 6 of them to puzzle together. And these 2 that may be more work than puzzles. They look ok until you notice the spray paint is flaking off. Yep spray paint! Grr ..lol
    All the best
    Dan

    20190201_011816.jpg 20190116_224205.jpg 20190116_224149.jpg
     
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  49. Joseph Bautsch

    Joseph Bautsch Registered User
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    Dan, nice rebuild job. It’s sad that people who have these clocks don’t take better care of them. I’m not quit finished with this one. The cold weather caught up to me, I have to work in the garage and it got too cold to work on it. I’ll post a photo when finished. This is not one I want to keep in my collection so when finished I will donate it to a local cat adaption shelter for their annual auction. My wife’s a cat person so I gain favor points with her.
     
  50. D.th.munroe

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    Actually those two weren't my rebuilds. I got those recently and still have to remove all the spray paint and polish them. Those are kind of the "before pics" I'm not sure if I have any pictures of the last 2 I repaired, but the one hiding behind the dome top one was one I refinished a few years ago.
     

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