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Request for Waltham KW20 and KW16 Serial Number Info - all grades

Clint Geller

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A watchmaker friend and I currently are collaborating on an article for the NAWCC Bulletin regarding the two Waltham watch designs that originated at the Nashua Watch Co., the KW20 and KW16, also known as the Models 1862 and 1860 [sic]. As part of this effort, we are trying to assemble a table of as many extant examples of these two models as possible. All the publically available sources from on-line sales archives and books already have been consulted. We also have information about numerous examples in various private collections. We are currently reaching out to the rest of the collecting community to further expand our table, which currently includes 136 and 163 KW20 and KW16 examples, respectively, of all grades (i.e., AWCo, AT&Co., and Amn). When the article is published, we will share our table on line, as well as in print, but will keep our data sources confidential unless otherwise instructed.

Thanks very much in advance!

The best way to transmit your information would be through images, but we can accept written data as well. The kinds of information we are recording include the following:

Movement:
SN,
Grade
# Jewels
Gilt or nickel? (KW16s only)
Patent markings (Stratton's and/or Fogg's pinion, and/or Fogg's vibrating stud)
Balance wheel features: (bimetallic or solid gold?) (flared or tapered spars?) (large diameter balance wheel? (KW20s only))
Regulator type (simple straight, Fogg's cam, or Fogg's vibrating stud?)
Exposed stopwork?
Gold train? (AWCo grade only)
Curb pin adjusting screw?
Any unusual features?

Dial/hands:
Single-line signature?
3-line signature?
Other signature style?
Glass enamel?
Spade hands?
Other style hands?

Case:
Correct? (If not, stop)
HC, OF, demihunter, or reversible?
Case metal?
Maker's or retailer's markings?
Dates on inscriptions?
Any unusual features (e.g., dual pushpiece, magic bow, glass back, enamel, etc.) or noteworthy inscriptions

The table also has a "Comments" column for any other relevant information.
 
Last edited:

Ethan Lipsig

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Jan 8, 2006
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Clint, I only have one Waltham KW 20 or K16 watch. I have reproduced your table and inserted information about my watch in bold face, and attached a suite of pictures. You may want to add "size" to the table, as I did.


Movement:
Size 16

SN, 140,111
Grade Appleton Tracy
# Jewels :???:
Gilt or nickel? (KW16s only) Gilt
Patent markings (Stratton's and/or Fogg's pinion, and/or Fogg's vibrating stud) Stratton's Patent
Balance wheel features: (bimetallic or solid gold?) (flared or tapered spars?) (large diameter balance wheel? (KW20s only))
Regulator type (simple straight, Fogg's cam, or Fogg's vibrating stud?) Fogg's vibrating stud
Exposed stopwork? Yes
Gold train? (AWCo grade only)
Curb pin adjusting screw? :???:
Any unusual features? :???:

Dial/hands:

Single-line signature? Yes
3-line signature?
Other signature style?
Glass enamel? Yes
Spade hands? Yes
Other style hands?

Case:
Correct? (If not, stop) Yes
HC, OF, demihunter, or reversible? Hunter
Case metal? 18k
Maker's or retailer's markings? Browne & Spaulding, 18
Dates on inscriptions?
Any unusual features (e.g., dual pushpiece, magic bow, glass back, enamel, etc.) or noteworthy inscriptions Enameled case

IMG_2606.JPG IMG_2609.JPG IMG_2610.JPG IMG_2604.JPG IMG_2598.JPG
 

Clint Geller

Gibbs Literary Award
NAWCC Fellow
NAWCC Member
Jul 12, 2002
2,468
2,177
113
67
Pittsburgh, PA
clintgeller.com
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Region
Clint, I only have one Waltham KW 20 or K16 watch. I have reproduced your table and inserted information about my watch in bold face, and attached a suite of pictures. You may want to add "size" to the table, as I did.


Movement:
Size 16

SN, 140,111
Grade Appleton Tracy
# Jewels :???:
Gilt or nickel? (KW16s only) Gilt
Patent markings (Stratton's and/or Fogg's pinion, and/or Fogg's vibrating stud) Stratton's Patent
Balance wheel features: (bimetallic or solid gold?) (flared or tapered spars?) (large diameter balance wheel? (KW20s only))
Regulator type (simple straight, Fogg's cam, or Fogg's vibrating stud?) Fogg's vibrating stud
Exposed stopwork? Yes
Gold train? (AWCo grade only)
Curb pin adjusting screw? :???:
Any unusual features? :???:

Dial/hands:

Single-line signature? Yes
3-line signature?
Other signature style?
Glass enamel? Yes
Spade hands? Yes
Other style hands?

Case:
Correct? (If not, stop) Yes
HC, OF, demihunter, or reversible? Hunter
Case metal? 18k
Maker's or retailer's markings? Browne & Spaulding, 18
Dates on inscriptions?
Any unusual features (e.g., dual pushpiece, magic bow, glass back, enamel, etc.) or noteworthy inscriptions Enameled case

View attachment 678112 View attachment 678113 View attachment 678114 View attachment 678111 View attachment 678110
Thank you very much, Ethan. Are you certain that is a glass enamel dial? It is a 15 jewel movement and it does not have a curb pin adjusting screw.
 

Ethan Lipsig

NAWCC Gold Member
Jan 8, 2006
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72
Pasadena
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Clint, my notes say that my watch has a glass enamel dial. I will look at it tomorrow when I visit my safe deposit box, and I will compare the dial to one on a correctly-dialed AWCO 1872. If you have any tips for determining whether an enamel dial is a glass enamel dial, I'd appreciate your sharing them with me.
 

Clint Geller

Gibbs Literary Award
NAWCC Fellow
NAWCC Member
Jul 12, 2002
2,468
2,177
113
67
Pittsburgh, PA
clintgeller.com
Country
Region
Clint, my notes say that my watch has a glass enamel dial. I will look at it tomorrow when I visit my safe deposit box, and I will compare the dial to one on a correctly-dialed AWCO 1872. If you have any tips for determining whether an enamel dial is a glass enamel dial, I'd appreciate your sharing them with me.
Hi Ethan, glass enamel dials are more specular and reflective than other enamel dials. Once you've seen one, there's little mistaking them. Thank you very much for checking.
 

Ethan Lipsig

NAWCC Gold Member
Jan 8, 2006
2,629
2,615
113
72
Pasadena
Country
Region
Clint, I just compared the dial on my ATCO KW16 to the correct original dials on an AWCO 1872, an AWCO 1888, and an Elgin Grade 72, all of which I understand to have glass enamel dials. The ATCO KW16 dial was not quite as white as those three other dials, and has a slightly less glossy sheen to it. If that means that it isn't a glass enamel dial, then it isn't one, but the dial looks about as nice as the three dials to which I compared it.
 

Clint Geller

Gibbs Literary Award
NAWCC Fellow
NAWCC Member
Jul 12, 2002
2,468
2,177
113
67
Pittsburgh, PA
clintgeller.com
Country
Region
Clint, I just compared the dial on my ATCO KW16 to the correct original dials on an AWCO 1872, an AWCO 1888, and an Elgin Grade 72, all of which I understand to have glass enamel dials. The ATCO KW16 dial was not quite as white as those three other dials, and has a slightly less glossy sheen to it. If that means that it isn't a glass enamel dial, then it isn't one, but the dial looks about as nice as the three dials to which I compared it.
I'm sure it is as nice, Ethan. But I beleive only some of the AWCo grade KW20s and KW16s had glass enamel dials, and not nearly all of them. Thank you for checking.
 

Clint Geller

Gibbs Literary Award
NAWCC Fellow
NAWCC Member
Jul 12, 2002
2,468
2,177
113
67
Pittsburgh, PA
clintgeller.com
Country
Region
Last edited:

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