Request for Rockford Serial Numbers from 1-255,000

Greg Frauenhoff

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Here you go my friend.

S#7086 18s 15j PL "Geo W Dirckinson, Ashtabula, O" Gilt LEVER set stem wind. This is the earlier lever position and acts more as a switch as it does not slide out. Confirmed not an Abbot's.

View attachment 588411
Kevin,

Very nice looking gilt mvt.

Regarding the name I think it is Dickinson. My recollection is that this jeweler later order some PL Ball watches. Maybe the Ball collectors can chime in and save me having to look it up.

Greg
 
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Kevin Neathery

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Kevin,

Very nice looking gilt mvt.

Regarding the name I think it is Dickinson. My recollection is that this jeweler later order some PL Ball watches. Maybe the Ball collectors can chime in and save me having to look it up.

Greg
You are correct Greg. It is Dickinson. I was having a hard time reading it and failed to fully correct it. Thanks. Kevin
 

Lee Passarella

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Excellent Lee, that one gave us a new data point, very much appreciated. Just wondering if you have had the dial of this one for a jewel count at all, as we have multiple reports about different jewel counts in that run?
I finally found out about the jewel count of #196415 with the exposed escapement. It is, in fact, 11j.
 

Bila

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Just a tidbit of info on some of these earlier Rockford's, in the first 15,000 produced on the numbers we have at present there are approximately 16 changes backwards and forwards between the Model 1 & 2's. Also within those first 15,000 there are more then 75 Grade changes (of the available Grades of the time), so as you see it will take a lot of numbers to find out what, when and how many of these differences there are.

So I implore anyone with numbers or examples laying around could you please contact me or upload photos and details of what you have (if unsure photos speak a thousand words, this info should include if possible; serial, model type, if stem & lever or key-wind & set and jewel count) if you have not already done so, thanks to all for their contributions to date and thanks for any that are forthcoming:)
 
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Fred Hansen

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I’d assume you probably have, but just to check - have you combed through Jones Horan results for Rockford data?
 
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Bila

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have you combed through Jones Horan results for Rockford data?

Yes Fred I have gone through all their Auction sales, just the other day I made contact with Diana about some Rockford info which she responded to almost immediately. J&H are one of the best sites as they keep info and pictures for long periods, perfect for research:)
 

Clock Man

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I have two and there should be pictures posted on one of the Rockford Threads, but I can post again if you wish.

Serial # 13,050 Hunter (Ladd) Cased, KWKS, Model 1 (I have no idea on jewel count)
Serial # 17,058 Open Face (Ladd case), KWKS, Model 1 ( No idea of jewel count)

Both have retailer engraved on movement.
Open Face has June 2, 1874 stamped under balance wheel
 

Bila

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I have two and there should be pictures posted on one of the Rockford Threads, but I can post again if you wish.

Serial # 13,050 Hunter (Ladd) Cased, KWKS, Model 1 (I have no idea on jewel count)
Serial # 17,058 Open Face (Ladd case), KWKS, Model 1 ( No idea of jewel count)

Both have retailer engraved on movement.
Open Face has June 2, 1874 stamped under balance wheel
Thanks Clock Man, much appreciated:)
 
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Nigel Harrison

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Hi Bila,

I have SN. 80

Confirmed 15 Ruby Jewel piece.

Would be maybe the 20th or 30th 15 Ruby Jewel piece made? Have you got any recorded from SN 51 to 70?
 
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Bila

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Hello Nigel, hope you have been going well mate as it has been a while:) Thanks for the serial, yours should be a Key-wind, can you confirm if it is, or if its not, does it have an Abbott's attached? Also is it marked "Adjusted" on the movement anywhere? The numbers are not exactly what have been spoken about in earlier research mate, a lot more numbers will be needed to sort them all out, to my knowledge you are between those numbers you have stated:)
 
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Nigel Harrison

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Hello Nigel, hope you have been going well mate as it has been a while:) Thanks for the serial, yours should be a Key-wind, can you confirm if it is, or if its not, does it have an Abbott's attached? Also is it marked "Adjusted" on the movement anywhere? The numbers are not exactly what have been spoken about in earlier research mate, a lot more numbers will be needed to sort them all out, to my knowledge you are between those numbers you have stated:)
Hi Bila, Yes it has been a while but going well mate. I hope you and the family are also going very well.

The piece is pure Keywind Keyset And is marked adjusted just near the serial number. No Abbott’s on this one. Interestingly it does have a peculiar screw on it which I am unsure of it’s purpose. When I clean it up a bit I will share it with you.
 
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darrahg

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Bila, here are two more confirmed:

166026, gilt, 15j, sw/ls, stem@3, 2 screws, hc, mdl 3, g44, PL = Kocher & Blauer
249682, nickel, 15j, sw/ls, stem@3, 2 screws, hc, mdl 6, g49
 
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darrahg

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Here is another confirmed one:

40274, nickel, 11J settings, kw,sw/ls, stem@3, 2 case screws, mdl2, with slightly different setting mechanism at the lever.
40274 5371 top plate cpd.JPG 40274 5368 dial plate cpd.JPG
 

Bila

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Just bumping this up so it stays in the mind of everyone, still looking for more serial numbers for these Rockford's, thank you to all for their contributions to date:)
 

Bila

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For all who are interested in these earlier Rockford production runs just a tid-bit of an update regarding the chopping and changing of movement variants. I have just gone through the first 40,000 serial numbers (based on the small selection we have at present) and have found that the Models as designated (based on the model 1 & 2's and the like) changed backward and forwards 55 times in this first 40,000 numbers and the variances within those model changes show 160 different types (these different types refer to jeweling and the like but not including variances in font and other attributes). So as you see,, to work out exactly what was produced by the Rockford Watch Factory a lot more numbers will be needed, so if you have any please put them forward for this important research, thanks to all:)
 
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Nigel Harrison

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:):)
For all who are interested in these earlier Rockford production runs just a tid-bit of an update regarding the chopping and changing of movement variants. I have just gone through the first 40,000 serial numbers (based on the small selection we have at present) and have found that the Models as designated (based on the model 1 & 2's and the like) changed backward and forwards 55 times in this first 40,000 numbers and the variances within those model changes show 160 different types (these different types refer to jeweling and the like but not including variances in font and other attributes). So as you see,, to work out exactly what was produced by the Rockford Watch Factory a lot more numbers will be needed, so if you have any please put them forward for this important research, thanks to all:)
Great work Bila, that is a lot of chopping and changing! So basically anything goes in regards to features and consistency. :)
 

Bila

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I do not know about anything goes Nigel (LOL) but the production is odd when you look at a most of the other American Watch Manufacturer's, why I do not know but I do have a couple of theories:)
 

darrahg

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Theories are good. Especially the one about stamping a 'boat load' of plates with SNs and working them up as needed. :lightbulb:
 
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Ryan Coleman

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A friend of mine just purchased a Rockford that had a four digit serial begining with 5. He showed me today, but I don't recall the entire serial. It was KWKS and Gilt. I don't recall the jewel count, but I am fairly certain it was open face configuration.
 
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Bila

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Thank you Ryan for the heads up mate, but is there any chance you can ask them about what serial it is and maybe upload a photo of the movement and the dial with the front of the case open, with their permission of course?
 
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Ryan Coleman

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I will. He only showed me pictures, the watch hasn't come in yet, bit when it does I will certainly get that info.
 
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Fred Hansen

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Bila - I'm curious, are you planning to either publish your data at some point or to make it available online? This would be a terrific resource if you were. Also are you collecting photos of each of the different variants you encounter?
 

Bila

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Bila - I'm curious, are you planning to either publish your data at some point or to make it available online? This would be a terrific resource if you were. Also are you collecting photos of each of the different variants you encounter?

I have been thinking about how to get it out there Fred (once everything is as clear as we can get it), had a discussion a little earlier in this thread on where to put it. I do not want to put it in the encyclopedia as the data can get changed by anyone. There is enough incorrect data out there in the horology world as it is and I notice that there is some data already in the encyclopedia that is questionable in my opinion (one of the problems with open data input) and hopefully one day someone will get a chance to bring it up to speed as much more info has come to light regarding certain Manufacturer's over the years since some of those articles were done.

If you have any suggestions that would be a help, as a lot of members here (and elsewhere) have contributed as well as a lot of other people who have sent private emails with data. I haven't really collected images of all the different things, basically pretty much a lot of photos already out there that people will be able to reference. I have gone over a lot of data 2 or 3 times and still find that I probably should have recorded something else but hadn't:)

As a thought, I wonder if it would be better to put the info in a booklet and send one to everyone that has contributed and also some to the Library as well so Members can access the info, as I have info on Agents and the like as well.
 
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MrRoundel

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My only Rockford is a partial 18s. It's missing the dial, complete balance assembly, intermediate wheel, and hour wheel. It does, however, have a serial number on the pillar-plate and barrel-bridge. And the match! I believe it is a Model 1 KW/KS. Serial # is 57839. It appears to have 9 jewels. Cheers.
 
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Bila

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Thank you for the serial number, if you get a chance to upload a photo or two of the dial plate and back plate that would be good as well, cheers:)
 

Fred Hansen

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I have been thinking about how to get it out there Fred (once everything is as clear as we can get it), had a discussion a little earlier in this thread on where to put it. I do not want to put it in the encyclopedia as the data can get changed by anyone. There is enough incorrect data out there in the horology world as it is and I notice that there is some data already in the encyclopedia that is questionable in my opinion (one of the problems with open data input) and hopefully one day someone will get a chance to bring it up to speed as much more info has come to light regarding certain Manufacturer's over the years since some of those articles were done.

If you have any suggestions that would be a help, as a lot of members here (and elsewhere) have contributed as well as a lot of other people who have sent private emails with data. I haven't really collected images of all the different things, basically pretty much a lot of photos already out there that people will be able to reference. I have gone over a lot of data 2 or 3 times and still find that I probably should have recorded something else but hadn't:)

As a thought, I wonder if it would be better to put the info in a booklet and send one to everyone that has contributed and also some to the Library as well so Members can access the info, as I have info on Agents and the like as well.
My projects are on the back burner right now, but eventually I'm thinking a three-part approach as follows ...

  • This message board for an ongoing call for data, exactly what you're doing here.

  • A dedicated website that is kept reasonably up to date as data comes in. An example would be a site such as Jim Schneider's www.model92.com. With a website such as this I think the more photos the better, so as to illustrate each variant being studied and to organize the data along with these images. A dedicated website under your control can also avoid the inaccuracies of open input data as you're vetting what is shown.

  • An NAWCC Bulletin article when the project is ready for presentation. This is a published snapshot of the project at that moment in time. Most likely findings and discoveries will occur after the article's publication that will cause adjustments to the research, but these can be integrated into the website which is an ongoing work and for this reason it makes sense to discuss the website in the Bulletin article.
 
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Bila

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My projects are on the back burner right now, but eventually I'm thinking a three-part approach as follows ...

  • This message board for an ongoing call for data, exactly what you're doing here.

  • A dedicated website that is kept reasonably up to date as data comes in. An example would be a site such as Jim Schneider's www.model92.com. With a website such as this I think the more photos the better, so as to illustrate each variant being studied and to organize the data along with these images. A dedicated website under your control can also avoid the inaccuracies of open input data as you're vetting what is shown.

  • An NAWCC Bulletin article when the project is ready for presentation. This is a published snapshot of the project at that moment in time. Most likely findings and discoveries will occur after the article's publication that will cause adjustments to the research, but these can be integrated into the website which is an ongoing work and for this reason it makes sense to discuss the website in the Bulletin article.

Thanks Fred for your thoughts/ideas, I will take them onboard as I mull over how to do the task of getting the info out there. I have the first 2 covered when and if needed, probably would need to do a bit more digging (more info) to justify (do it justice) the last item on your list. I have 8 different research/serial number projects on the go currently and although being retired I never have enough time:(
 

Bila

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A Model 3, looks like they were converting old KWKS stock to SW, LS

Serials number 183376, A private Label for Mermod & Jaccard, St Louis

Thanks Jim, a nice example of the Model 3 and as you say a converted model 2, it seems they were pulling plates and parts willy-nilly to put things together for orders.
 

Bila

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A Nice piece Nigel love them in nickel (had that one on the database), yes large lettering as you say, I notice someone (that probably should have not touched it) has been at the jewel settings:(
 
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