Request for Rockford Serial Numbers from 1-255,000

Discussion in 'American Pocket Watches' started by Bila, Feb 8, 2020.

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  1. Bila

    Bila Registered User
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    Have you had the dial to confirm the 13 Jewels Kevin?

    Also the model 1 & 2 Nickel plate movements, can you let me know if you have confirmed any jewel count with dials off?

    Thanks for the photos:)
     
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  2. Lee Passarella

    Lee Passarella Registered User
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    Glad to post, Bila, and thanks for the information. Rockford fans will be gratified.
     
  3. Keith R...

    Keith R... Registered User
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    #53 Keith R..., Feb 12, 2020
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2020
    My model 6 was by serial number. After Chip serviced it,I moved over to Rob Carter.
    So I'd have ask Rob if he had the model 6. I've got 10 years with Rob C.

    Yes, Rob Carter and full count with dials off. I have one 11J left in my collection, Melrose.
    All others 15J.

    Glad to see someone dialed in on early Rockies Bila.

    Keith R...

    100_1460 (800x600) - Copy.jpg
     
  4. Bila

    Bila Registered User
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    Thanks Keith.
     
  5. Greg Frauenhoff

    Greg Frauenhoff Registered User
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    Bila,

    I don't know where you're headed with all your Rockford data, but I hope you consider putting it into an encyclopedia article. There it can be referenced by members and updated easily. Just a thought.*

    Greg

    *The last time I made a suggestion to someone about their hard earned data they fled our message board. That was certainly not my intent and it is not so here either.
     
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  6. 4thdimension

    4thdimension Registered User

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    #102480-18s 9j G transitional 2screws -Cort
     
  7. James Wrobel

    James Wrobel Registered User

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    I am a novice collector. My Rockford is my favorite piece because I live in Rockford. Here it is:
    Model: 1
    S/N: 23062
    Finish: gilt
    Jewels: 15
    Setting: key
    Mounting screws: 1

    move.JPG

    IMG_0451.JPG

    I have not verified the jewel count by inspection. My watch was in the Pocket Watch Serial Number Database before I bought it, so I'm going by that and the Rockford sales catalog which I found somewhere.
     
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  8. Bila

    Bila Registered User
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    #58 Bila, Feb 14, 2020
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2020

    It will be made available for all Greg, it belongs to all, there has been a lot of contributions from other Members here, as well as other Forum members on other sites. Once I can get some semblance/correlation of serial numbers and work out where the runs start & end (i have some idea now but need more numbers to shore up some hypotheses, as some serial blocks have next to no data at present), we can put it out there. I just do not know how it will go with data being imputed directly into an Encyclopedia article, as this is then opened up to possibly a lot of incorrect observation inputs. The PWDB is a prime example of how this can happen (and is not the only site) and no I am not taking the PWDB to task, it is what it is, but probably could be done better regarding certain info and its dissemination. You can see by this board even that data being present on certain watches is at times incorrect, it clearly appears to me that a chunk of it has been gleaned from the PWDB. You can not blame the posters for this though, but at least this incorrect data in most cases quickly gets put in to the correct prospective by other Forum users here.

    An example; the PWDB displays model numbers and grades and other info on their site for runs that we all know there is little to no data available. A user of that site and it's database, (possibly someone just starting out or even someone without a lot of observation abilities or mechanical knowledge) reads that data then thinks this is what his watch is. The serial number is staring them in the face on the site with the associated data, and in some case (uploaded) pictures by contributors that are clearly not correct model or grade or in some cases not even correct production runs of unknown models, so they report their watch is the same model/type when it is clearly not.

    I have seen plenty of instances of this miss-reporting since the Site started and even more so now that I am looking at this early Rockford stuff, It does not matter how many little caveats you put on it, it will happen regularly. The PWDB would be much better off removing all the model, type and grade information from these unknown model and grade runs, including some of the new "research grades" info that have been posted there, as even this has started to filter down through with emails to me from others regarding observations. A better way is to let people post their watch info and when there is enough data, (which should be kept in house) until you are able to make an educated observation/assessment, then post that information. It is not my right to tell anyone how to run their site, the only reason I have mentioned it here, is as an example to highlight what can happen on an open input data sheet.

    I know this is not something we as Collectors & Forum Users here can control as the site is someone else's, but these are the problems that can arise and will make a farce in my opinion of the Rockford early research data if it is open slather input by anyone & everyone, if you have any ideas around this they would be appreciated.
     
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  9. Bila

    Bila Registered User
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    #59 Bila, Feb 14, 2020
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2020

    I have put it in the database, the jewel count that you have read there is incorrect, clearly a 9 or 11 Jewel only, thanks for posting James, much appreciated:)
     
  10. Bila

    Bila Registered User
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    Thanks Cort.
     
  11. Greg Frauenhoff

    Greg Frauenhoff Registered User
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    Bila,

    You have put some good thought into this and have a "plan".

    I will continue reporting info as it comes my way.

    Cheers,

    Greg
     
  12. James Wrobel

    James Wrobel Registered User

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    Thanks for the correction on 23062.
     
  13. Greg Frauenhoff

    Greg Frauenhoff Registered User
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    Here are some old slides. I don't know how legible the engravings are and don't have additional info on most. Hopefully some will be helpful.

    img566.jpg img567.jpg img568.jpg img569.jpg img570.jpg
     
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  14. Greg Frauenhoff

    Greg Frauenhoff Registered User
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    Some other pics. #241902 is "17 R", #90 is a key winder with stem wind attachment added later (original case has been modified by the addition of a stem and crown and the key hole has been expertly filled), #164805 is marked "15" on barrel bridge (presumably for 15 jewels).

    img572.jpg img573.jpg img574.jpg
     
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  15. Bila

    Bila Registered User
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    #65 Bila, Feb 14, 2020
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2020

    Thanks Greg, there is only one that I can not make out:)
     
  16. Greg Frauenhoff

    Greg Frauenhoff Registered User
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    More slides:

    img575.jpg img577.jpg
     
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  17. Greg Frauenhoff

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    And for historical interest a pic of Levi Rhoades, first President of Rockford:

    img578.jpg
     
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  18. Greg Frauenhoff

    Greg Frauenhoff Registered User
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    BTW, there is an early quite rare Rockford price list known. I probably have a copy of it (around here somewhere) from the time it was listed on ebay. If I recall, it is in the collection of one of our younger members. If so, maybe he can share it with us here?
     
  19. Greg Frauenhoff

    Greg Frauenhoff Registered User
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    Another BTW, the s/n on the model 6 in my slide looks to be 916?3 which is very close to that on the tin I showed (91669).
     
  20. Tom Huber

    Tom Huber Registered User
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    I'll add a few.

    SN 205,414, 8S 15J, HC, Nickel movement
    SN 219,258, 16S, 17J, HC, nickel, PS, model 4
    SN 171,665, 18S, 15J, HC. gilt, LS, model 2
    SN 109,634, 18S, 11J, HC, gilt. LS, model 2

    Tom
     
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  21. okiejohn

    okiejohn Registered User

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    I have five that fall within that SN Range....all are loaded into pocketwatchdatabase.com, including photos.

    1. SN 19008. 18s, 9j (marked on movement), gilt, Key wind, key set, unknown grade. ("stem" at 12, but not a functioning "stem"). One case screw, located at approx. 5 o'clock. PWDB says "Model 1".
    2. SN 195063. 18s, 15j, nickel (db says, "two-tone", not too sure about that, but has NICE, unique demaskeen pattern), stem wind, lever set, stem at 12. Unknown grade. PWDB says "Model 4".Two case screws at approx. 1 and 7 o'clock.
    3. SN 200356. 8s, 7j (according to PWDB), nickel. Stem wind, lever set. stem at 3 o'clock. PWDB says "Model 1". Two case screws, at approx 1.5 and 7 o'clock.
    4. SN 238270. 18s, 11j (according to PWDB), gilt. Stem wind, lever set. stem at 3 o'clock. PWDB says "Model 3" though Rockford SN lists say "Model 4". Unknown grade Two case screws, at approx. 2.5 and 10 o'clock.
    5. SN 253573. 18s, 15j (marked on movement), PWDB says Grade 77. Nickel, stem wind, lever set, stem at 3 o'clock. PWDB says "Model 8". Two case screws, at approx. 4 and 9 o'clock.

    I hope these help the cause!
     
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  22. Bila

    Bila Registered User
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    Thanks Greg, that Model 5 you show there is an interesting one, if I read the serial number correctly it is from a block we didn't know about and the first block of serials in this model with those size plate jewels, very nice:)
     
  23. Bila

    Bila Registered User
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    When I did a little bit of editing on that photo Greg and played with the lighting that number appears to be 91638, but it is still hard to make out even with the editing, so I am possibly incorrect.
     
  24. Bila

    Bila Registered User
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    Hi Tom, Thanks for the post of numbers, just a question if you can remember it, that 2nd watch in the list, you have it as a 16 and a model 4, Just wondering if you have a picture or can recall it at all. It should be a 18 Size Model 5 Nickel Hunter SW/LS, can you let me know when you get a chance if you recollect it?

    Cheers,
    Bila
     
  25. Bila

    Bila Registered User
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    That 238270 is a later model 3, thanks for the posts.
     
  26. James Wrobel

    James Wrobel Registered User

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    Re: Levi Rhoades: he was presented with Ser #1. I believe someone owns that one. It would be nice if the owner reported that one to your database.
     
  27. 4thdimension

    4thdimension Registered User

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    Greg, I haven’t seen one like that before. The visibility of the mechanism is really cool. Is that a scarce model or grade?-Cort
     
  28. Bila

    Bila Registered User
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    Please disregard the comment here about it being from an unknown block (as I have re-edited the photo and had 1 number of the serial incorrect), but it is still unusual compared to a lot of other model 5 nickel runs with those larger then life size plate jewels:)
     
  29. Tom Huber

    Tom Huber Registered User
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    Bila you are correct. The SN for the 16S is 919, 258. My bad. Just had to use a more powerful magnifier.

    Tom
     
  30. Bila

    Bila Registered User
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    Thanks for the clarification Tom:)
     
  31. Greg Frauenhoff

    Greg Frauenhoff Registered User
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    Rockford's exposed escapement model (model 6) isn't scarce per se, although some of the specific grades probably are. It is indeed a neat design.
     
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