Request for Rockford Serial Numbers from 1-255,000 ( now expanded to 500,001)

[Bila]

exp esc model 6-13J

Have you had the dial to confirm the 13 Jewels Kevin?

Also the model 1 & 2 Nickel plate movements, can you let me know if you have confirmed any jewel count with dials off?

Thanks for the photos

 

[Lee Passarella]

Glad to post, Bila, and thanks for the information. Rockford fans will be gratified.

 

[Keith R...]

My model 6 was by serial number. After Chip serviced it,I moved over to Rob Carter.
So I'd have ask Rob if he had the model 6. I've got 10 years with Rob C.

Yes, Rob Carter and full count with dials off. I have one 11J left in my collection, Melrose.
All others 15J.

Glad to see someone dialed in on early Rockies Bila.

Keith R...

 

[Bila]

Thanks Keith.

 

[Greg Frauenhoff]

Bila,

I don't know where you're headed with all your Rockford data, but I hope you consider putting it into an encyclopedia article. There it can be referenced by members and updated easily. Just a thought.*

Greg

*The last time I made a suggestion to someone about their hard earned data they fled our message board. That was certainly not my intent and it is not so here either.

 

[4thdimension]

#102480-18s 9j G transitional 2screws -Cort

 

[James Wrobel]

I am a novice collector. My Rockford is my favorite piece because I live in Rockford. Here it is:
Model: 1
S/N: 23062
Finish: gilt
Jewels: 15
Setting: key
Mounting screws: 1





I have not verified the jewel count by inspection. My watch was in the Pocket Watch Serial Number Database before I bought it, so I'm going by that and the Rockford sales catalog which I found somewhere.

 

[Bila]

but I hope you consider putting it into an encyclopedia article. There it can be referenced by members and updated easily. Just a thought.*

Greg

It will be made available for all Greg, it belongs to all, there has been a lot of contributions from other Members here, as well as other Forum members on other sites. Once I can get some semblance/correlation of serial numbers and work out where the runs start & end (i have some idea now but need more numbers to shore up some hypotheses, as some serial blocks have next to no data at present), we can put it out there. I just do not know how it will go with data being imputed directly into an Encyclopedia article, as this is then opened up to possibly a lot of incorrect observation inputs. The PWDB is a prime example of how this can happen (and is not the only site) and no I am not taking the PWDB to task, it is what it is, but probably could be done better regarding certain info and its dissemination. You can see by this board even that data being present on certain watches is at times incorrect, it clearly appears to me that a chunk of it has been gleaned from the PWDB. You can not blame the posters for this though, but at least this incorrect data in most cases quickly gets put in to the correct prospective by other Forum users here.

An example; the PWDB displays model numbers and grades and other info on their site for runs that we all know there is little to no data available. A user of that site and it's database, (possibly someone just starting out or even someone without a lot of observation abilities or mechanical knowledge) reads that data then thinks this is what his watch is. The serial number is staring them in the face on the site with the associated data, and in some case (uploaded) pictures by contributors that are clearly not correct model or grade or in some cases not even correct production runs of unknown models, so they report their watch is the same model/type when it is clearly not.

I have seen plenty of instances of this miss-reporting since the Site started and even more so now that I am looking at this early Rockford stuff, It does not matter how many little caveats you put on it, it will happen regularly. The PWDB would be much better off removing all the model, type and grade information from these unknown model and grade runs, including some of the new "research grades" info that have been posted there, as even this has started to filter down through with emails to me from others regarding observations. A better way is to let people post their watch info and when there is enough data, (which should be kept in house) until you are able to make an educated observation/assessment, then post that information. It is not my right to tell anyone how to run their site, the only reason I have mentioned it here, is as an example to highlight what can happen on an open input data sheet.

I know this is not something we as Collectors & Forum Users here can control as the site is someone else's, but these are the problems that can arise and will make a farce in my opinion of the Rockford early research data if it is open slather input by anyone & everyone, if you have any ideas around this they would be appreciated.

 

[Bila]

S/N: 23062
Finish: gilt
Jewels: 15

I have put it in the database, the jewel count that you have read there is incorrect, clearly a 9 or 11 Jewel only, thanks for posting James, much appreciated

 

[Bila]

#102480-18s 9j G transitional 2screws -Cort

Thanks Cort.

 

[Greg Frauenhoff]

It will be made available for all...Once I can get some semblance/correlation of serial numbers and work out where the runs start & end (i have some idea now but need more numbers to shore up some hypotheses, as some serial blocks have next to no data at present), we can put it out there. ...A better way is to let people post their watch info and when there is enough data, (which should be kept in house) until you are able to make an educated observation/assessment, then post that information. these are the problems that can arise and will make a farce in my opinion of the Rockford early research data if it is open slather input by anyone & everyone.

Bila,

You have put some good thought into this and have a "plan".

I will continue reporting info as it comes my way.

Cheers,

Greg

 

[James Wrobel]

Thanks for the correction on 23062.

 

[Greg Frauenhoff]

Here are some old slides. I don't know how legible the engravings are and don't have additional info on most. Hopefully some will be helpful.

 

[Greg Frauenhoff]

Some other pics. #241902 is "17 R", #90 is a key winder with stem wind attachment added later (original case has been modified by the addition of a stem and crown and the key hole has been expertly filled), #164805 is marked "15" on barrel bridge (presumably for 15 jewels).

 

[Bila]

I don't know how legible the engravings are

Thanks Greg, there is only one that I can not make out

 

[Greg Frauenhoff]

More slides:

 

[Greg Frauenhoff]

And for historical interest a pic of Levi Rhoades, first President of Rockford:

 

[Greg Frauenhoff]

BTW, there is an early quite rare Rockford price list known. I probably have a copy of it (around here somewhere) from the time it was listed on ebay. If I recall, it is in the collection of one of our younger members. If so, maybe he can share it with us here?

 

[Greg Frauenhoff]

Another BTW, the s/n on the model 6 in my slide looks to be 916?3 which is very close to that on the tin I showed (91669).

 

[Tom Huber]

I'll add a few.

SN 205,414, 8S 15J, HC, Nickel movement
SN 219,258, 16S, 17J, HC, nickel, PS, model 4
SN 171,665, 18S, 15J, HC. gilt, LS, model 2
SN 109,634, 18S, 11J, HC, gilt. LS, model 2

Tom

 

[okiejohn]

I have five that fall within that SN Range....all are loaded into pocketwatchdatabase.com, including photos.

1. SN 19008. 18s, 9j (marked on movement), gilt, Key wind, key set, unknown grade. ("stem" at 12, but not a functioning "stem"). One case screw, located at approx. 5 o'clock. PWDB says "Model 1".
2. SN 195063. 18s, 15j, nickel (db says, "two-tone", not too sure about that, but has NICE, unique demaskeen pattern), stem wind, lever set, stem at 12. Unknown grade. PWDB says "Model 4".Two case screws at approx. 1 and 7 o'clock.
3. SN 200356. 8s, 7j (according to PWDB), nickel. Stem wind, lever set. stem at 3 o'clock. PWDB says "Model 1". Two case screws, at approx 1.5 and 7 o'clock.
4. SN 238270. 18s, 11j (according to PWDB), gilt. Stem wind, lever set. stem at 3 o'clock. PWDB says "Model 3" though Rockford SN lists say "Model 4". Unknown grade Two case screws, at approx. 2.5 and 10 o'clock.
5. SN 253573. 18s, 15j (marked on movement), PWDB says Grade 77. Nickel, stem wind, lever set, stem at 3 o'clock. PWDB says "Model 8". Two case screws, at approx. 4 and 9 o'clock.

I hope these help the cause!

 

[Bila]

More slides:

View attachment 571304 View attachment 571306

Thanks Greg, that Model 5 you show there is an interesting one, if I read the serial number correctly it is from a block we didn't know about and the first block of serials in this model with those size plate jewels, very nice

 

[Bila]

Another BTW, the s/n on the model 6 in my slide looks to be 916?3 which is very close to that on the tin I showed (91669).

When I did a little bit of editing on that photo Greg and played with the lighting that number appears to be 91638, but it is still hard to make out even with the editing, so I am possibly incorrect.

 

[Bila]

'll add a few.

SN 205,414, 8S 15J, HC, Nickel movement
SN 219,258, 16S, 17J, HC, nickel, PS, model 4
SN 171,665, 18S, 15J, HC. gilt, LS, model 2
SN 109,634, 18S, 11J, HC, gilt. LS, model 2

Tom

Hi Tom, Thanks for the post of numbers, just a question if you can remember it, that 2nd watch in the list, you have it as a 16 and a model 4, Just wondering if you have a picture or can recall it at all. It should be a 18 Size Model 5 Nickel Hunter SW/LS, can you let me know when you get a chance if you recollect it?

Cheers,
Bila

 

[Bila]

I have five that fall within that SN Range....all are loaded into pocketwatchdatabase.com, including photos.

That 238270 is a later model 3, thanks for the posts.

 

[James Wrobel]

Re: Levi Rhoades: he was presented with Ser #1. I believe someone owns that one. It would be nice if the owner reported that one to your database.

 

[4thdimension]

Another BTW, the s/n on the model 6 in my slide looks to be 916?3 which is very close to that on the tin I showed (91669).

Greg, I haven’t seen one like that before. The visibility of the mechanism is really cool. Is that a scarce model or grade?-Cort

 

[Bila]

Thanks Greg, that Model 5 you show there is an interesting one, if I read the serial number correctly it is from a block we didn't know about and the first block of serials in this model with those size plate jewels, very nice

Please disregard the comment here about it being from an unknown block (as I have re-edited the photo and had 1 number of the serial incorrect), but it is still unusual compared to a lot of other model 5 nickel runs with those larger then life size plate jewels

 

[Tom Huber]

Hi Tom, Thanks for the post of numbers, just a question if you can remember it, that 2nd watch in the list, you have it as a 16 and a model 4, Just wondering if you have a picture or can recall it at all. It should be a 18 Size Model 5 Nickel Hunter SW/LS, can you let me know when you get a chance if you recollect it?

Cheers,
Bila

Bila you are correct. The SN for the 16S is 919, 258. My bad. Just had to use a more powerful magnifier.

Tom

 

[Bila]

Thanks for the clarification Tom

 

[Greg Frauenhoff]

Greg, I haven’t seen one like that before. The visibility of the mechanism is really cool. Is that a scarce model or grade?-Cort

Rockford's exposed escapement model (model 6) isn't scarce per se, although some of the specific grades probably are. It is indeed a neat design.

 

[Bila]

Just bumping this to the top, as we are still looking for more numbers

 

[Joseph Short]

SN 102035
Gilt
9 jewel (Based on online database. I have not disassembled the watch)
Stem wound
Hunter case

 

[Bila]

SN 102035
Gilt
9 jewel

Thanks Joseph, appreciated

 

[Bila]

Just bumping this up again to keep it in everyone's mind that more numbers are still needed for this research, Thank You to All

 

[luvsthetick]

Here is serial #197964, a 15 jewel model 6.

 

[Bila]

Here is serial #197964, a 15 jewel model 6.

Excellent, Thank You

 

[Lee Passarella]

I forgot this one from my collection, Bila. Serial No. 196415, c. 1883, with exposed escapement.

 

[Bila]

I forgot this one from my collection, Bila. Serial No. 196415, c. 1883, with exposed escapement.

Excellent Lee, that one gave us a new data point, very much appreciated. Just wondering if you have had the dial of this one for a jewel count at all, as we have multiple reports about different jewel counts in that run?

 

[Lee Passarella]

I haven't, Bila. When I'm able to get it serviced--and I need to--I'll let you know.

 

[Bila]

I haven't, Bila. When I'm able to get it serviced--and I need to--I'll let you know.

That will be great Lee, thank you

 

[Bila]

Just bumping this up again, the serial numbers coming have been very slow but our appreciation goes out to all the Members/Collectors here that have contributed. Could everyone also check their parts bin and the like for any that might have been stashed? Even on the numbers we have it is a real eye opener when looking at some of the production runs concerning jewel count and the like, as it appears the Rockford Watch Co chopped and changed production direction much more than other watchmaking concerns of the day. So we need more serial numbers to confirm the correct starting points of the production runs and info such as jewel counts, as I have said previously photos speak a thousand words.

 

[James J Nicholson]

Bila, one more.
Serial No. 76075
Key Wind (Hidden Key)
Dave

View attachment 570510 View attachment 570511 View attachment 570512

Wow a hidden key, how cool is that! Did all come with this feature?

 

[Bostonjoe]

Hi All,

I have one to contribute, #28662. According to the pocket watch database, a 9J gilt movement in a hunter case. Nice clean movement in an attractive coin silver case.

 

[Greg Frauenhoff]

Hi All,

I have one to contribute, #28662. According to the pocket watch database, a 9J gilt movement in a hunter case. Nice clean movement in an attractive coin silver case.

View attachment 588368 View attachment 588369 View attachment 588371

Neat Rockford. As for the jewel count, with four in the top plate it has at least 11 total. It might be 15j or even 13j but you'd need to take a look underneath.

 

[vintageguy]

I also have one to contribute, # 43421. Nice plates and dial. PWDB says its a Model 2 9J hunter. Replacement 2 oz. coin case, appears to be a Fortenbach or Fahys?

 

[Bila]

I have one to contribute, #28662.

Thanks Joe for the post, a nice one, Greg is totally correct, at least an eleven, these Rockford's are notorious for the chopping and changing of jeweling, only way to be sure is lift the dial as Greg suggested

 

[Bila]

PWDB says its a Model 2 9J hunter

Thanks vintageguy, the problem with that database mate, good info and bad info, that is a nice looking 7 jewel, cheers for the post.

 

[Kevin Neathery]

Here you go my friend.

S#7086 18s 15j PL "Geo W Dirckinson, Ashtabula, O" Gilt LEVER set stem wind. This is the earlier lever position and acts more as a switch as it does not slide out. Confirmed not an Abbot's.

 

[Bila]

Thanks Kevin, a very nice piece