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Replacing center sweep second hand wheel

Paul Raposo

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Nov 4, 2005
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I picked up a Certina with a hand wind 25-661 movement and the pinion that holds the second hand was broken off.

I have a working parts movement and had planned to swap the movements but the donor movement is slanted to accommodate the curved date wheel and dial so a swap isn't possible as the date wheel and dial on my watch are flat.

My question is can I remove the gear train bridge and pull out the broken gear on my watch and replace it with the new wheel or would I have to remove the hr/min hands dial hour wheel and cannon pinion?

I'm including four pics but three aren't mine, they're pics I got online.

certina-009.jpg IMG_2772.jpg 661_66.thumb.jpg.a78c3aa0f3238506fe606dc1d7539296.jpg DS-07.jpg
 

Skutt50

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Mar 14, 2008
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It has been a while since I worked on one of these but I am pretty sure you can replace the seconds hand arbor without removing the dial and minute/hour hands. This is in theory though, in reality if you are this deep into the movement you might as well give it a complete COA. (Cleaning, Oiling, Adjustment)
 
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Paul Raposo

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Do take care. This is a rather thin hand fitting. It is the commonest watch seen with the hand fitting broken off. This wheel is not an inexpensive nor easily obtainable one.
I did not know that roughbarked. I've been collecting Certina for decades and always felt they were pretty robust but seeing that the second hand pinion was broken off really surprised me. I was lucky to find the working donor movement in a working watch so I'm debating doing the work myself. My watchmaker is in another city and I can't take the time to drive to him like I used to.
 

roughbarked

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Yes. The second hand is not so important. You can go without it until you find a watchmaker who can put it back together without breaking it. It is true that this particular 4th wheel has the thinnest section for bearing the hand that I have seen. Strange it may seem for a movement so renowned for it's robustness.
 
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Skutt50

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I'm debating whether or not to put the movemnt back in the case
I think this is a good choise. Not only are you dealing with the seconds wheel but you also have to align upp a couple of other wheels in the gear train when you put the bridge back. Not very difficult but if you are not used with this type of work it is wise to leave it to your watchmaker and to practise on some junk movements......

Speaking about broken second hands pivots, I once serviced one of these Certinas wich had a broken pivot. The former watchmaer had managed to install a seconds hand with a big and long tube that did fit over the remains of the arbor...... I could not get it back though so I replaced the arbor with a proper spare part.....
 
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Paul Raposo

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Nov 4, 2005
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Yes. The second hand is not so important. You can go without it until you find a watchmaker who can put it back together without breaking it. It is true that this particular 4th wheel has the thinnest section for bearing the hand that I have seen. Strange it may seem for a movement so renowned for it's robustness.
Thanks roughbarked. I have to admit it was more aesthetics than function. The movement winds sets and runs with good amplitude, low beat error and only gains 20 seconds per day. The second hand wouldn't improve anything.

I think this is a good choise. Not only are you dealing with the seconds wheel but you also have to align upp a couple of other wheels in the gear train when you put the bridge back. Not very difficult but if you are not used with this type of work it is wise to leave it to your watchmaker and to practise on some junk movements......Speaking about broken second hands pivots, I once serviced one of these Certinas wich had a broken pivot. The former watchmaer had managed to install a seconds hand with a big and long tube that did fit over the remains of the arbor...... I could not get it back though so I replaced the arbor with a proper spare part.....
Thanks for your thoughts and experience with this Skutt. I spent last night thinking about trying to line up that escape wheel pinion and just imagined hearing that tiny "snap" as the bridge comes down.

I actually searched around for a second hand with a larger pipe and came up short. At one point I thought about using GS Hypo-Cement to glue the pipe to the pivot and then snapped myself out of that ridiculous idea.

Thank you both for your help with this. Hopefully things will get better to the point that I feel ok about driving the 70 minutes to my watchmaker with this watch. In the meantime I'll at least try enjoying it as it is.
 

Skutt50

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I actually searched around for a second hand with a larger pipe and came up short.
Something just struck me........ It should be possible to make a small tube that fits the remainder of the arbor and the tube of the seconds hand. I am thinking in terms of a pipe used for re bushing (repairing wall clocks when a hole in a brass plate is oval......) It should be possible to cut it narrow enough on a lathe. I am not at my workshop for yet some weeks but it would be a fun experiment to try out one day.......
 
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Paul Raposo

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Something just struck me........ It should be possible to make a small tube that fits the remainder of the arbor and the tube of the seconds hand. I am thinking in terms of a pipe used for re bushing (repairing wall clocks when a hole in a brass plate is oval......) It should be possible to cut it narrow enough on a lathe. I am not at my workshop for yet some weeks but it would be a fun experiment to try out one day.......
Sadly that's beyond my talents or abilities.
 

roughbarked

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Something just struck me........ It should be possible to make a small tube that fits the remainder of the arbor and the tube of the seconds hand. I am thinking in terms of a pipe used for re bushing (repairing wall clocks when a hole in a brass plate is oval......) It should be possible to cut it narrow enough on a lathe. I am not at my workshop for yet some weeks but it would be a fun experiment to try out one day.......
Even so, as you may imagine. There is 90% of the time little to attach this pipe to and there is a bearing surface on the shaft just below the habd fitting and thus, no strength can be gained and it can only work if the pip goes on agter the wheel is in the watch, which means the pipe has to come off each time the watch is serviced or the 4th wheel cannot be removed from the watch and this makes it largely difficult to get either the 3rd wheel or the centre wheel out of the watch while it is there.
 
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Paul Raposo

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Nov 4, 2005
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Cambridge, ON Canada
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I had bought this watch with plans of keeping it but with the broken second hand pinion I decided to try and sell it. No luck at a reduced price. So I found a Cetina Waterking with a 25-661 movement and included it with the DS and even after several price reductions to less than what I paid for both watches, no one was interested.

After starting this thread and giving it some thought I decided to do the work myself and I'm happy to say it went well.

I've decided to keep it and have it on a nifty Tropic strap and I thinks it looks pretty nice. The dial printing damage is disappointing, but for some reason finger cots stuck to the dial and lifted off ink. Short of finding a new dial or getting this one refinished there's not much I can do.

Thanks to roughbarked and Skutt50 for your thoughts and advice. And here's a pic.

DSCN7201.JPG
 
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