Replacing cable on grandfather

Darrmann39

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First time replacing a cable on grandfather clock. Pretty easy process but it's obviously been shortened. The other two are also slightly different when fully unwound. So my question is when fully unwound how far from the bottom should the weights drop. Or do they should they run out and touch the bottom.
Right now if they run out they stop about 10 to 15 inches from bottom of case.
 

bruce linde

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did you mean to post photos?

ideally, weights would come to a gentle stop when they hit the bottom of the case.... planning for an additional half inch drop would insure that. 10-15 inches short would mean you're almost certainly not getting a full 8-day run time.
 

Darrmann39

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did you mean to post photos?

ideally, weights would come to a gentle stop when they hit the bottom of the case.... planning for an additional half inch drop would insure that. 10-15 inches short would mean you're almost certainly not getting a full 8-day run time.
Thats what i thought about the being so far up.
So other clocks I've replaced cable or cat gut on slipped in and out a whole tire a knot and that's it. It's a Herschede and it's a bit different only one opening and can't seem to get it out. Should i think side towards wider opening and drop out. Not working

1620067836446560735214403333383.jpg
 

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Willie X

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Yes it went in the wide opening and will come out. You may need to use pliers and a twisting motion. If it breaks and falls inside, that is not/knot a problem.

I go by the top, forget about the bottom. 3/4 to 1 turn on the drum to start and enough cable to comfortably fill the drum, with the weight pulley bumping the seat board. Sometimes you have to compromise but the weight should never have a chance to 'hang on the knot'. Adding a filler in the bottom of your case may be the only way to prevent this, when you have a longer case. Willie X
 
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Darrmann39

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i use braided nylon core, 1 or 1.2mm... i tie a stopper knot (Stopper Knot - How to tie a Stopper Knot) and seal the deal with a touch of crazy glue.
That darn weight on the right has to be 50 ilbs might be over a bit but it's damn heavy. You would trust braided nylon?
It's not mine so I'm going with what was in it. But just curious. I like the black nylon and have put it on a couple of my own wall clocks. Nothing as heavy as these weights tho
 

Darrmann39

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Yes it went in the wide opening and will come out. You may need to use pliers and a twisting motion. If it breaks and falls inside, that is not/knot a problem.

I go by the top, forget about the bottom. 3/4 to 1 turn on the drum to start and enough cable to comfortably fill the drum, with the weight pulley bumping the seat board. Sometimes you have to compromise but the weight should never have a chance to 'hang on the knot'. Adding a filler in the bottom of your case may be the only way to prevent this, when you have a longer case. Willie X
I'm now replacing all 3 since all were short especially the one so I'm curious how you secure the cord until you get it back on and weighted? Tape it to the seat board?
 

Willie X

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Use a small weight (about 4#). This makes a tough job easy. I think that right weight is around 22# on many.
Willie X
 
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Bruce Alexander

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D.mann

If you have cable of the right diameter, the room on the spool will determine how long your cable should be. It should be long enough to completely fill the spool without wrapping over itself. If the cable is too long and you wind the weights up to the seat board, they might foul causing the train to stall due to insufficient power.

Willie's right on the money for 5-tube movements. The Chime Weight is 22 pounds.


The chime weight is about 7 pounds heavier on a 9 tube movement. Not sure about the less common 7 tube clock. I've never seen, much less laid hands on one.

You could also ensure that the weight doesn't hang on the knot by placing cable that is too long for the spool but you then have to be careful not to "over wind" it. My mentor installed long cable when he overhauled our first 5-tube GF clock. I marked the "stop winding" points on the cable with a "permanent" marker. I've had to reapply the mark a couple of times. It seems to wear off of the brass fibers after a couple of years. I suppose you could apply a small piece of blue painter's masking tape on the back of the case, or something like that, but it would be there for a while.

Have fun.

Bruce
 
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shutterbug

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On modern clocks especially, if you reach the end of the cable before the weight hits the bottom, the cable can release from the drum and could potentially break the case bottom.
 
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Darrmann39

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D.mann

If you have cable of the right diameter, the room on the spool will determine how long your cable should be. It should be long enough to completely fill the spool without wrapping over itself. If the cable is too long and you wind the weights up to the seat board, they might foul causing the train to stall due to insufficient power.

Willie's right on the money for 5-tube movements. The Chime Weight is 22 pounds.


The chime weight is about 7 pounds heavier on a 9 tube movement. Not sure about the less common 7 tube clock. I've never seen, much less laid hands on one.

You could also ensure that the weight doesn't hang on the knot by placing cable that is too long for the spool but you then have to be careful not to "over wind" it. My mentor installed long cable when he overhauled our first 5-tube GF clock. I marked the "stop winding" points on the cable with a "permanent" marker. I've had to reapply the mark a couple of times. It seems to wear off of the brass fibers after a couple of years. I suppose you could apply a small piece of blue painter's masking tape on the back of the case, or something like that, but it would be there for a while.

Have fun.

Bruce
Thanks it is a 9 tube
 

Darrmann39

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Another question , i was originally just supposed to go set this up because it was moved to a new house then i saw the cable frayed and knew it needed replaced.
So i did that and nothing else. I put it back in the case and the strike and chime are going off at the same time. But it only has a single lever that activates both also at same time. Should have taken a pic before i left. Can anyone explain this to me without pics of the face plate.
 

Willie X

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Be prepared to pick it up and bring it back to your shop, no joy here! And, you will need to come to an agreement or understanding on the $$$.
Willie X
 

Darrmann39

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Be prepared to pick it up and bring it back to your shop, no joy here! And, you will need to come to an agreement or understanding on the $$$.
Willie X
Well she knows i did nothing to it besides the cable. Did it in her home. It was her mother's and someone has either done something before her mom passed and she got it. I'm fairly new At this but am pretty good at following the sequences of how it works.
This has a t bar that trips both sides at the same time so pretty confused. She might not even be prepared to spend the extra money to go into it but I'd sure like to figure it out for my own knowledge
 

Darrmann39

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I found a pic of the face plate and circled the bar that activates both sides chime and strike at same time circled in red. Is it possible to point out the problem? Or is what's going on not on the front plate

20210514_215040.jpg 20210514_215138.jpg
 

bruce linde

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fyi, my winterhalder 5-tube chime-side weight is 28lbs… you could always weigh yours to find out for sure. :)

i used 1.5mm braided nylon cord and have no doubts about it holding… but there’s always a trade-off between cord thickness and run time and i only get 6 1/2 - 7 days. when i get tired of winding it slightly more frequently i’ll replace w 1.2mm cord.
 

Darrmann39

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fyi, my winterhalder 5-tube chime-side weight is 28lbs… you could always weigh yours to find out for sure. :)

i used 1.5mm braided nylon cord and have no doubts about it holding… but there’s always a trade-off between cord thickness and run time and i only get 6 1/2 - 7 days. when i get tired of winding it slightly more frequently i’ll replace w 1.2mm cord.
I did weigh it and yes it is also 28 ilbs. Thanks. I do like the fact that it disappears. I have some on an ebony clock and it looks as the weights are Hanging in midair
You have any ideas on my latest question about the chime and strike?
 

Bruce Alexander

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Hey D.mann,

I've think that you'll need to adjust the Strike Warning Lever slightly. It's bushed and so the angle formed between part carrying the Warning Detent, and the part acted upon by the Chime Rack can be altered. This will affect how soon the Strike Train is released from Warning so that it can begin its run. If the angle is too acute, the Strike will begin before the Chime Rack is fully gathered. If the angle is too obtuse. the Strike Train will remain in Warning.

Look at the mechanism closely. I think you'll need to make an adjustment by straightening the lever slightly (at the white arrow). You should be able to make your adjustments and test in house with the face removed of course. If the Warning Lever's bushing is too loose to reliably hold your adjustment, you'll need to stake lightly to tighten it up. You might need to take that part home to your shop. It's pretty accessible so you shouldn't have to remove any or many other parts.

HerschedePlate.jpg

As a side note, there is a Warning Detent carried on the Long Lever. When the Chime Train is silenced this Strike Warning Lever is out of action. If the Strike Train is still enabled, the Detent on the Long Lever functions to hold the Strike Train in Warning until the top of the hour. The Long Lever drops and the Hour Strikes begin immediately.

Run the movement through its paces and double-check everything. It's been a little while since I've had to make one of these adjustments.

Good luck with it. It's always more stressful when you're in someone's home...especially if they insist on looking over your shoulder. :whistle:


Regards,

Bruce

Edit: If this doesn't work, be prepared to pull the movement as Willie warns. Definitely no joy, but not your fault so it's not a freebie.
Were they operating the clock before you changed out the cable? Are there signs that the movement will need servicing soon? It looks pretty clean in your photos, but of course that rules out very little.

Please let us know what you find.
 
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Darrmann39

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Hey D.mann,

I've think that you'll need to adjust the Strike Warning Lever slightly. It's bushed and so the angle formed between part carrying the Warning Detent, and the part acted upon by the Chime Rack can be altered. This will affect how soon the Strike Train is released from Warning so that it can begin its run. If the angle is too acute, the Strike will begin before the Chime Rack is fully gathered. If the angle is too obtuse. the Strike Train will remain in Warning.

Look at the mechanism closely. I think you'll need to make an adjustment by straightening the lever slightly (at the white arrow). You should be able to make your adjustments and test in house with the face removed of course. If the Warning Lever's bushing is too loose to reliably hold your adjustment, you'll need to stake lightly to tighten it up. You might need to take that part home to your shop. It's pretty accessible so you shouldn't have to remove any or many other parts.

View attachment 654397

As a side note, there is a Warning Detent carried on the Long Lever. When the Chime Train is silenced this Strike Warning Lever is out of action. If the Strike Train is still enabled, the Detent on the Long Lever functions to hold the Strike Train in Warning until the top of the hour. The Long Lever drops and the Hour Strikes begin immediately.

Run the movement through its paces and double-check everything. It's been a little while since I've had to make one of these adjustments.

Good luck with it. It's always more stressful when you're in someone's home...especially if they insist on looking over your shoulder. :whistle:


Regards,

Bruce

Edit: If this doesn't work, be prepared to pull the movement as Willie warns. Definitely no joy, but not your fault so it's not a freebie.
Were they operating the clock before you changed out the cable? Are there signs that the movement will need servicing soon? It looks pretty clean in your photos, but of course that rules out very little.

Please let us know what you find.
It was not running, it was just moved. I had to install all the tubes, pendulum and of course as i said change the cable. Thank you. I'll keep this updated as soon as i go back there.
 

Bruce Alexander

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It was not running, it was just moved.
Okay. So this may not be a new behavior or the lever (assuming that's the cause of the problem) somehow got out of adjustment during transport.

If the bushing is loose, you might try applying a very small drop of Thread Locker to the joint as a temporary measure. I would still remove the part before applying. If it goes someplace you don't want it to, it might freeze the part to the post, and then you'll have a real problem.
Ideally the part would be properly tightened but that will be difficult to do on site I think.

You may consider doing this for insurance purposes to make sure the part doesn't come out of adjustment again. Just let the owner know what you're doing and why. Tell them that it's temporary measure until the movement is properly overhauled.

Again, I'm talking about a very small amount of Loctite (or similar). Apply with a toothpick or the eye of a large sewing needle. Anything in that range. Then maybe run a Q-Tip through the post mounting hole just to make sure. You might even put a drop of synthetic clock oil on the post for a belt and suspenders approach. A small amount of synthetic oil won't gum up anytime soon and the part is spring loaded so it should be good to go until the next cleaning.

Just a "House Call" suggestion.

Good luck with it.
 
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Darrmann39

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Okay. So this may not be a new behavior or the lever (assuming that's the cause of the problem) somehow got out of adjustment during transport.

If the bushing is loose, you might try applying a very small drop of Thread Locker to the joint as a temporary measure. I would still remove the part before applying. If it goes someplace you don't want it to, it might freeze the part to the post, and then you'll have a real problem.
Ideally the part would be properly tightened but that will be difficult to do on site I think.

You may consider doing this for insurance purposes to make sure the part doesn't come out of adjustment again. Just let the owner know what you're doing and why. Tell them that it's temporary measure until the movement is properly overhauled.

Again, I'm talking about a very small amount of Loctite (or similar). Apply with a toothpick or the eye of a large sewing needle. Anything in that range. Then maybe run a Q-Tip through the post mounting hole just to make sure. You might even put a drop of synthetic clock oil on the post for a belt and suspenders approach. A small amount of synthetic oil won't gum up anytime soon and the part is spring loaded so it should be good to go until the next cleaning.

Just a "House Call" suggestion.

Good luck with it.
I'm thinking someone messed with it before she got it (while her mother had it).
The pendulum bob was actually backwards. With the front facing you the peg on pendulum hanger was facing the back of the clock. No idea why of course.
So maybe this was also messed with. Who knows. But if loose certainly could be from transport.
I appreciate the help.
 

Darrmann39

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Hey D.mann,

I've think that you'll need to adjust the Strike Warning Lever slightly. It's bushed and so the angle formed between part carrying the Warning Detent, and the part acted upon by the Chime Rack can be altered. This will affect how soon the Strike Train is released from Warning so that it can begin its run. If the angle is too acute, the Strike will begin before the Chime Rack is fully gathered. If the angle is too obtuse. the Strike Train will remain in Warning.

Look at the mechanism closely. I think you'll need to make an adjustment by straightening the lever slightly (at the white arrow). You should be able to make your adjustments and test in house with the face removed of course. If the Warning Lever's bushing is too loose to reliably hold your adjustment, you'll need to stake lightly to tighten it up. You might need to take that part home to your shop. It's pretty accessible so you shouldn't have to remove any or many other parts.

View attachment 654397

As a side note, there is a Warning Detent carried on the Long Lever. When the Chime Train is silenced this Strike Warning Lever is out of action. If the Strike Train is still enabled, the Detent on the Long Lever functions to hold the Strike Train in Warning until the top of the hour. The Long Lever drops and the Hour Strikes begin immediately.

Run the movement through its paces and double-check everything. It's been a little while since I've had to make one of these adjustments.

Good luck with it. It's always more stressful when you're in someone's home...especially if they insist on looking over your shoulder. :whistle:


Regards,

Bruce

Edit: If this doesn't work, be prepared to pull the movement as Willie warns. Definitely no joy, but not your fault so it's not a freebie.
Were they operating the clock before you changed out the cable? Are there signs that the movement will need servicing soon? It looks pretty clean in your photos, but of course that rules out very little.

Please let us know what you find.
That did the trick. Took me about ten minutes adjusting to get the strike perfect following the chime. Someone (i was told probably mom's boyfriend) did some ridicules adjustments. He obviously had no idea what he was doing and didn't get any instruction.
It wasn't loose in the least, took it off just to get it to move it was that tight. Once i moved it put it back in and adjusted from there.
Really appreciate that help
 

Bruce Alexander

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Glad you were able to get it straightened out for your client. These are very nice clocks, but I'd consider them to be high-maintenance.

Expect to get periodic call backs for relatively simple adjustments. If it has been a while, take your oiler.

Regards,

Bruce
 
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Dick Feldman

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If it has not been suggested yet, Steven Connover wrote a comprehensive book on Herschede movements.
How to Repair Herschede Tubular Bell Clocks: Steven G. Conover: 9780962476679: Amazon.com: Books
He has another book addressing both European and USA tube chime clocks.
NEW Tubular Bell Clocks by Steven Conover - Herschede, German & English (BK-131)
You may find either or both through your local library system.
With all of that weight hung on the movement, you can expect it to be quite worn and as Bruce says, will need frequent repair.
Best,
Dick
 

Bruce Alexander

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That's an excellent suggestion/reference Dick. :thumb:

I have Conover's Herschede Book, but not the 2nd one you list.


Darrmann,
You won't go wrong with any of Conover's books. It looks like he's selling them directly to the public again. He had stopped for a while. See this URL: Your source for clock repair books

I like to order directly from him when I can. He's even signed copies for me in the past, which I think is a nice touch.
He has kept me out of trouble on numerous occasions. :whistle:

Of course, there will always be good, experienced folks who are willing and able to help you here. There's no better teacher than experience.

Regards,

Bruce
 
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Darrmann39

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That's an excellent suggestion/reference Dick. :thumb:

I have Conover's Herschede Book, but not the 2nd one you list.


Darrmann,
You won't go wrong with any of Conover's books. It looks like he's selling them directly to the public again. He had stopped for a while. See this URL: Your source for clock repair books

I like to order directly from him when I can. He's even signed copies for me in the past, which I think is a nice touch.
He has kept me out of trouble on numerous occasions. :whistle:

Of course, there will always be good, experienced folks who are willing and able to help you here. There's no better teacher than experience.

Regards,

Bruce
Thanks. I'm more then grateful and amazed really at the knowledge i get from here, most of the time within hours of asking.
 

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