Replacing an Anchor.

[Willie X]

Try the frog. You can take off as much or as little metal as you like, usually without repositioning. I can probably skin off a couple if microns but I have no way to measure it!

I think you could safely compare the two methods to using a bushing tool or a mill.
Both can do a decent job but the mill's accuracy and repeatability is superior.
Big difference in this comparison is the frog doesn't cost anything, except maybe an hour of your time.

Frog on, Willie X

 

[bruce linde]

willie - can you please post links to or photos of said frog? i tried searching the mb and nothing clear and direct floated to the surface. i also check decarle, nothing in the index. i need more info, as i really want to frog.

 

[Willie X]

bruce,
I posted the only photo I could find back in post #36. Willie

 

[bruce linde]

bruce,
I posted the only photo I could find back in post #36. Willie

doh! any instructions around for how to make one? and, what are the two screws for at the top? why wouldn't the threaded rods be loctite'd in with only the adjustment nuts to work? and, you could then hold the entire thing in a vise to insure no movement, yes?

have to admit i've used my vise to do this kind of stuff, using magnification and eyeballing... but this would be mo' bettah.

 

[Bruce Alexander]

Willie, I may give it a try as you suggest. Thanks for sharing it with us.

I just chimed in with a method I have used with good success as recommended by David LaBounty. Actually, it looks like Dan may be using the vise method in post #32. I'm not certain.

In any case, I only use this method if the wear is light. Light routine maintenance as opposed to repair or restoration. If there is a lot of wear, I think it best to replace or perhaps slipper as outlined in other posts in the Forum's archives. These movements do have a slotted, offset pivot hole bushing for one of the Anchor's pivots (front plate) for adjusting the depth of the Escapement, but they are almost always frozen in place and trying to adjust them just leads to a badly marred area of the plate. I screwed one up so bad that I had to fabricate a replacement.

Since NOS or newly manufactured replacements are available for this clock, the O.P. has options to try with a safety net.

I thought that the clock was running well before this issue came up. I think he should be able to make things work without resorting to drastic measures.

 

[Willie X]

bruce,
I will do a new thread (in a few days) with some better photos with measurements. I think that one is made from 1/4" x 1 1/8" mild steel bar stock. Just cut off about 5/16" to make the clamp/cap and file everything square. The clamp/cap has #4- 40 studs and nuts. The back of the frog has two #6 - 32 round head brass screws in threaded holes with a lock nut on the back side. These screws make a triangle with the work-piece and can be easily adjusted, if you need to tilt the work piece a bit. I try to get the work piece positioned as close as posable, clamp it tight, and then use the screws at the back to fine tune the pisition, when necessary.

I use a piece of plate glass as a work table for the frog and the sandpaper but any hard and true surface will do. I also usually use two strips of sandpaper one abrasive side up and one down, tape is good. This will allow you to set the workpiece angle directly on the glass and then run the frog with the set screws on the non abrasive side of the strip and the workpiece on the abrasive side. This is easier than re-adjusting the frog to run on the slight angle caused by the thickness of the sandpaper you are using.

OK enough for the words, a few photos will tell the tale.

Willie

 

[disciple_dan]

I thought that the clock was running well before this issue came up. I think he should be able to make things work without resorting to drastic measures.

Hey, y'all. Thanks for all of the great comments. This clock was running when I got it set up on my test stand but I couldn't leave the anchor in the condition it was in. I think it would have caused problems soon if it wasn't the reason the clock had stopped when they called me.
So, I actually used my vice grip as a Frog as in post #37. It worked very well. I was very careful and paid extra attention to keeping the long side at 90 degrees to the glass. The vice grip kept the impulse angle right. I got some good sharp edges. I made some buff sticks and did that work in a vice. I took quite a bit off of the entrance pallet to remove the wear and polished it well. The exit was not as bad and it didn't take much for it to polish up.
It's back on the stand and running great right now. I'm watching it closely. I can see the exit lock and drop on that side but it's very difficult to see the entrance lock. I'll send a short video later. Thank, Danny

 

[disciple_dan]

I'm getting right at 3" travel at the rating nut.

 

[Bruce Alexander]

Well, as I suggested, you shouldn't need to take drastic measures (such as replacing the anchor) since the movement did run with the anchor as found. Use of the vise is the method detailed by David LaBounty. It's totally different than the Frog method outlined by Willie although your vise grip pliers approach is interesting. In any case, glad you got things sorted out.

You mentioned a 3" pendulum amplitude. How much was it before your work on the anchor?

 

[Willie X]

The drops are a little + (especially onto the exit pallet) but that is to be expected. I would be happy with that. Willie X

 

[disciple_dan]

Thanks, Willie X. I think I could reduce the drop on the exit with that offset bushing but I've read some troublesome stories about doing that. I think Bruce has a story of the wows of attempting that adjustment.
If you think that will keep her running then I trust your judgment. I won't hold you responsible if it doesn't though. Thank for the help. I'm very inexperienced in this area and especially with this movement. Bruce has been a great help also.
Do you think it would help to bush the rear bearing of the anchor? It does have a little vertical play.
Thank you all who have chimed in to give advice and help.
Ok, I'm going to make all of the required adjustments and install all of my retaining wires. Any last stage suggestions?
Thanks again, Danny

 

[Willie X]

I might try lowering the pallet just a scosh, to see what happens. But, as you probably know, I'm a firm believer in 'leaving well enough alone'. Ha.
Willie X

 

[Bruce Alexander]

If the bushing doesn't budge, don't try to force it. It will cam out. It probably hasn't been adjusted since it was tweaked in the factory. Make sure your screwdriver is non-tapered and a good fit for the slot (as per Conover).

Give a good, long test period before you even think of letting it out of your shop. I'd recommend a minimum of two weeks (with no surprises), but that's just my opinion/preference.

 

[disciple_dan]

Ok, I may try to move the exit pallet a little closer to the center. That's a little scary. If it comes out I'm right back to tearing it down. I would want to remove the anchor arbor before making any attempt. Well enough alone is starting to sound better. I want to do the right job. If it runs for 10 years that way then would that be the right job.
So, having too much drop obviously will cause it to wear a little more but does it also cause the weight to drop faster over the 8-day run?
Thanks so much, Danny

 

[Peter John]

On lowering the pallet. I have a special screwdriver that I ground to fit the pivot hole plug both width and thickness. That virtually eliminates the risk of chewing up the slot when trying to turn it. They can sometimes be very difficult to turn and I like to have the movement mounted on the seatboard and it clamped in place so I can apply sufficient pressure while turning and still make sure the screwdriver stays in the slot. Peter

 

[Peter John]

I turn it while the clock is running. If it locks up just back off a skosh.

 

[disciple_dan]

Well, I elected to leave well enough alone. I have it completely assembled and it is passing all of the tests in the Conover service book for Hershede. I'm letting it run through each tune for 12 hours. If it passes that test, I'll let it run for 2 weeks to see how it fairs.
Here are some recent photos. Thanks for all of your help. I pray this will be the next o the last entry. I'll post the final outcome before I take it to the home.

 

[disciple_dan]

I pray this will be the next o the last entry.

Well, this is not the last entry and most likely not even the next to the last one either. It would appear that I have unwisely chosen to exclude a Teflon washer from the TT great wheel that separates the drive gear from the power maintenance gear. There were some things added to this movement that attempted to repair a problem that was questionable and I assumed the Teflon washer was another because the washer was not mentioned in the Conover book on the 9 Tube Herschede movement. Shame on me!

I had the movement completely assembled and testing and would have been ready to install in the case before I found a parts list that included the Teflon washer. It did not specify where the washer went but the factory did have it as original equipment. The separation of the two gears does seem logical.
I'm trying to justify leaving it out but I don't think my conscience is going to allow it. It is working and maintaining power while winding at this time, but
I had good advice given before I assembled the movement but did not heed it. That can be reviewed at "Packing a nine tube Grandfather for moving post # 90 and after."
I'm just wondering what you all think about it. What if it were your clock?
All comments are welcome. Thank you, Danny

 

[bruce linde]

the washer is no doubt for spacing between the parts. if you feel the current spacing is not too loose (such that the wheels can be tilted against each other too much), you're fine. if you feel the assembled great wheel needs the washer for best/proper alignment of parts, what's the big deal about disassembling a 200th time?!?!? it might be that you pinned the wheel assembly together in a way that accounted for the missing washing, such that everything is ok.

 

[disciple_dan]

the washer is no doubt for spacing between the parts.

It was my belief that Teflon washers are used as sort of a lubricant more than spacing. This is a very, very thin washer at 0.12 mm.

For comparison, this paper is 0.11 mm.

But to be fair, there were two of them stacked in there at 0.19 mm.

I'm going to see if I might be able to remove the back of the movement without taking any of the levers off of the front. I have all of the wires in place and don't want to remove all of them.
??

 

[Willie X]

All I can say is 'easier now than later'.
Willie X

 

[disciple_dan]

Ok, I got the washer installed and I feel so much better. I have it all together and it is scheduled to go back in the case on Wednesday.
There is one thing that is still bothering me. Most fan setups that I have seen work on centrifugal force. The fans on this unit are not moveable by centrifugal force. You can set them to adjust the speed and that is where they stay. This doesn't seem right. I thought the fan should have a little slip too so it's not such a shock when starting and stopping.
Is this correct? Is there some way to adjust the tension on these fans? I don't see it yet.
I did put some oil on the fans but it didn't do any good.
Do I need to address this? Thanks, Danny

 

[Willie X]

There is no tension. The blades are adjustable but remain fixed once adjusted.

First, make sure the fan arbor has good end shake.

Adjust the blades in and out until the speed is pleasing. I prefer a tad on the fast side. I don't mention anything to the customer about the speed.

Last, remove the power and make sure the fan is balanced. Just tip it back and forth, making sure it doesn't favor one position.

That's it, haul that puppy home, Willie X

 

[disciple_dan]

You're the best, Willie X. That worked out perfectly. I have set it to a likable speed. If the customer likes it I'm all set. The delivery got postponed until the 5th. Looking good. I think I did a good job but only time will tell.
Thanks to all who so graciously help me get through my first Hershede.
Danny