Repivoting and Tool Steel

Discussion in 'Clock Repair' started by ticktock, Dec 20, 2011.

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  1. ticktock

    ticktock Registered User

    Aug 24, 2004
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    Is there a way to visibly tell if a pivot is a German nickel chromium plated steel vs a scored tool steel pivot other than seeing the nickel chromium peeling off?

    tick
     
  2. Tinker Dwight

    Tinker Dwight Registered User

    Oct 11, 2010
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    Hi
    Put a drop of tap water on the arbor
    someplace other than the pivot.
    Let it dry.
    Steel will quickly show some surface
    rust that can be wiped off later.
    Tinker Dwight
     
  3. ticktock

    ticktock Registered User

    Aug 24, 2004
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    And if this was a repivot is there a way to tell what type of steel it is? O1 or 0161?

    thanks
    -> posts merged by system <-
    Tinker, if the chromium plating has worn off exposing the steel will the rust test work and what will that accomplish?
     
  4. bangster

    bangster Moderator
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    An impertinent question: What does it matter, so long as it ain't plated mild steel?

    :confused::confused:
     
  5. ticktock

    ticktock Registered User

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    #5 ticktock, Dec 21, 2011
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2011
    It matters! If it is 0161 which is a soft steel like Hermle's nickel chromium plated steel. If it is a soft steel than it needs to be replaced with a tool steel like 01 which is a very good tool steel for pivots. That is the point of my question. So the question is not impertinent but of the utmost importance.
     
  6. shutterbug

    shutterbug Moderator
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    Oct 19, 2005
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    I don't know the details, but there is a scratch test method of determining the hardness of metal. Perhaps one of the members will fill in the gaps :)
    I believe it involves different metal 'scratchers' and how they react to the metal being tested is how the strength is judged.
     
  7. ticktock

    ticktock Registered User

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    #7 ticktock, Dec 22, 2011
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2011
    Tool Steel does matter! Case in point. Restored a Waterbury 8 day Time and Strike started to wind the Mains when the time side winding arbor started to twist. By the time I finished winding the arbor looked like a spiraled candy cane! I called him and he told me his friend made the mains arbor and installed it on the wheel since the original was damaged beyond repair. But this person went to Home Depot and bought cold rolled steel.
    So when I see pivots from a German movement that no longer has the nickel chromium on the pivot I wonder if this wheel is the original German stock steel or if someone has repivoted it in the past and what type of steel he used. Saves the clock from coming back in 6 months.

    I hope this clarifies what I did not say in my original post. Sorry.
     
  8. ticktock

    ticktock Registered User

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    So I assume the question is beyond the scope of this message board.

    tick
     
  9. RJSoftware

    RJSoftware Registered User

    Apr 15, 2005
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    I think the only test that most of us know here is the grinder test. Where steel/iron with higher carbon content sparks differently on the grinding wheel.

    Where highest carbon sparks are bright white and many, lower is yellow and some, lowest is none and grinds up quick.

    I suppose you could scour the web for some info on how to test by chemical reactions such as acids, but as to my personal needs the grinder test works fine.

    I suppose too that it would be difficult to do that as the pivots length is critical and you dont want to mess with that.

    You do realize that if you do run into the plated pivots with soft iron center, that you can emply Butterbearings from Mark Butterworth.

    This appears to be a good solution to the Hermle problem.

    RJ
     
  10. ticktock

    ticktock Registered User

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    Thanks RJ!
     
  11. eskmill

    eskmill Registered User
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    #11 eskmill, Dec 23, 2011
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2011
    Yes, tick. It is beyond the intent of this message board to enable you to evaluate the hardness or relative durability of metals.

    It all begins with Moh's scale of hardness. Beyond Moh's there are scales of hardness, one common one, I recall, is the Brinnell number scale. Thus when selecting steels from the supplier, one either must specifiy the material precisely or have learned which commonly used materials are suited for the purpose.

    I, like many non-professionals have acquired our knowledge from experience by working with materials, together with familarization of the many refererence books pertaining to material specifications.

    To return to the theme of this thread, I would advise that with experience, good lighting and a magnifier, a novice clockmaker could judge if a common clock arbor has endergone pivot replacment. :bang:
     
  12. ticktock

    ticktock Registered User

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    LOL
     
  13. bangster

    bangster Moderator
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    I'll note that a winding square is a whole different animal from a wheel pivot. I too have seen winding squares twisted up. Never seen a wheel pivot that way. The two probly have different requirements.

    :D
     
  14. dAz57

    dAz57 Registered User

    Dec 7, 2011
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    well here you go, this is from a french clock I did, the rear centre wheel pivot was just gone (acidic oil?), anyway drilled it out and replaced it with a blue steel pivot wire.
     

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