Repair question

[Mike Kearney]

My friend here at work has a stainless datejust he got for his 25th anniversary with our employer. That was 10 years ago. When it started losing time I helped him send it off to the Rolex service center in NY for a $400. service, which included a new crystal and crown. That was about two years ago. He complained the watch was hard to set when he got it back from being serviced, but otherwise it ran fine.

Last weekend, the crown unscrewed from the case, and it also unscrewed from the stem, and now the crown is lost. He thinks it might be somewhere in his back yard. In other words, that crown is gone.

He hasn't called Rolex yet, but we suspect they will want to charge him for another service and the replacement crown, i.e. another $400. service. His wife hates the watch and says he should throw it away before spending another $400. on it. He's tired of spending money on it as well.

A local non-authorized service center told him it would cost $450. to fix, which I presume means they'll send it to Rolex and charge him a handling fee. I suspect that's because they can't buy Rolex parts. (Now, Steve, don't you start...)

So he's asked me if I could fix it...
I have the tools and skill to remove the back, remove the stem, fit another crown and put it back together. But I'd need a crown and a case gasket. Any chance I could get those? Sure there's aftermarket parts, but... (And that's ignoring the fact that there's some lack of lubrication or other problem with the cannon pinion or elsewhere, that caused the hard setting, and the crown to be able to unscrew from the stem and get lost in the first place.)

Ahh, if it was just an old Bulova, or something similar, I'd know just what to do. So what would you do if you were in my position? (Other than rant that Rolex won't let me get the parts.) Thanks in advance for your replies.

Regards,
Mike

 

[Mike Kearney]

My friend here at work has a stainless datejust he got for his 25th anniversary with our employer. That was 10 years ago. When it started losing time I helped him send it off to the Rolex service center in NY for a $400. service, which included a new crystal and crown. That was about two years ago. He complained the watch was hard to set when he got it back from being serviced, but otherwise it ran fine.

Last weekend, the crown unscrewed from the case, and it also unscrewed from the stem, and now the crown is lost. He thinks it might be somewhere in his back yard. In other words, that crown is gone.

He hasn't called Rolex yet, but we suspect they will want to charge him for another service and the replacement crown, i.e. another $400. service. His wife hates the watch and says he should throw it away before spending another $400. on it. He's tired of spending money on it as well.

A local non-authorized service center told him it would cost $450. to fix, which I presume means they'll send it to Rolex and charge him a handling fee. I suspect that's because they can't buy Rolex parts. (Now, Steve, don't you start...)

So he's asked me if I could fix it...
I have the tools and skill to remove the back, remove the stem, fit another crown and put it back together. But I'd need a crown and a case gasket. Any chance I could get those? Sure there's aftermarket parts, but... (And that's ignoring the fact that there's some lack of lubrication or other problem with the cannon pinion or elsewhere, that caused the hard setting, and the crown to be able to unscrew from the stem and get lost in the first place.)

Ahh, if it was just an old Bulova, or something similar, I'd know just what to do. So what would you do if you were in my position? (Other than rant that Rolex won't let me get the parts.) Thanks in advance for your replies.

Regards,
Mike

 

[doug sinclair]

Mike,

Since you asked what I would do in your position, I'll make a suggestion. If you feel somewhat guilty for the somewhat less than satisfactory outcome of your freind's watch repair, I think you will have even greater reason to regret replacing the crown with an after-market crown. Besides, there's a chance the aftermarket ones wouldn't even fit the existing case tube. It might be worth his while to write to Rolex and explain the situation, and ask for their advice. They won't likely make a committment without seeing the watch, but they might consider some sort of gesture to fix his problem. Even if it means another $ 400.00 repair, it is still too good a watch to "ditch" in my estimation. And next time around, if he senses something is not quite right after repair, perhaps he should return it during the one year warranty.

Does anyone on the message board have access to genuine Rolex crowns that would be willing to look at helping Mike's freind with his problem?

Regards,
Doug S.

 

[Mike Kearney]

Doug, thanks for your reply. Thought you might want to hear some follow-up. I told my co-worker I'd take a look at his watch. It appears his crown didn't unscrew from the stem. The spring loaded post section of the crown broke, leaving part of the post still screwed firmly to the stem.

So I ordered a 6mm crown, a case gasket, a stem, and a case tube O ring from Borel and Frei. When they arrived, I found that the post of the new crown was larger than the inner diameter of the case tube. Also, it's difficult to tell if the threads of the crown are the same as the case tube. You suggested I'd have trouble with after market parts and you were right.

Thinking that what I really should have ordered was a 5.3mm crown, but not wanting to make another mistake, I called B&F and asked. The lady told me that the 6mm crown was correct for a man's oyster case, but that with their generic crowns it's necessary to ream out the case tube so that the post fits. (I thought, or buy one of their generic case tubes and a case tube wrench to replace the original. But her suggestion was to ream out the original case tube.)

Does this make sense? Been here before? Is the 6mm crown the right one or the 5.2mm? I will put the watch back together unharmed and return it to its owner rather than butcher it. I'm just not quite ready to give up yet.

Regards,
Mike

 

[doug sinclair]

Mike,
Thanks for getting back. I have seen this problem with Rolex Oyster crowns before. Fortunately, only infrequently.

The availability of after market parts for Rolex is improving. I have used the rotor posts, for example, and I can't see any difference from the original part. I have had unsatisfactory experience with crystals, crowns, case tubes, anything to do with the case. It seems as though after market case parts are like fake Rolex watches. They only LOOK like the genuine stuff, but when you get right down to it, they don't fit a genuine Rolex.

You asked if "it made sense" to ream out the case to fit the generic part. It does ONLY if a person wants to turn a fixable $ 400.00 problem into a ruined $ 5,000.00 (+ or -) watch! As to answering your question about a 5.3 mm crown fitting the original case tube is concerned, I'm going to say that you have gone as far as you should on this. I was hoping someone who had access to genuine Rolex parts would take pity on your freind and look after his crown problem. I'm sorry that didn't happen. I think the choice of a solution to his problem at this point is best left to him. I always wonder why it is that some people will spend sometimes thousands of dollars a year to keep a disposable car on the road, yet they feel $ 400.00 every four years is too much to spend to maintain an expensive watch that could last them for 20 or 30 years, or longer. One of the reasons we watchmakers will never be rich, I guess.

Doug

 

[Steve Maddox]

Mike,

Throughout most of the company history, the case tubes for Rolex Oyster cases have been made from chrome plated nickel. A few years ago, Rolex started making the 5.3 mm models from solid stainless steel, and obviously, they found that those were much better. The 5.3 mm tubes have traditionally been used on ladies models, as well as on the smaller men's models such as the 5500 "Air King" models, and the "Thunderbird" Datejust models, in which the larger 6.0 mm crown would interfere with the rotating bezel.

For reasons known only to Rolex, instead of introducing 6.0 mm tubes made from stainless as well, they decided to "standardize" the 5.3 mm tube, and make them "universal" on all their Oyster models. To continue to maintain the same apparent dimensional proportions, however, they introduced an entirely new crown on the men's DateJust models, etc. The new crowns are 6.0 mm on the outside, but they have threads and shafts which fit the newly standardized 5.3 mm stainless tubes.

Essentially, for the past several years now, there have been three different types of standard Oyster crowns (not counting divers' models). Those are the true 5.3 mm crowns, the true 6.0 mm crowns, and the "hybrid" models with 6.0 mm tops and 5.3 mm "guts." It's entirely possible that the crown on your friend's watch is one of the "hybrid" types, and that's what's causing your problems.

In my experiences, however, the "guts" from generic Rolex crowns will not usually interchange with those from genuine Rolex crowns under ordinary circumstances. The threads of the various components are different, as are their dimensions.

I have several hundred used Rolex crowns, some of which are dented and/or have their outer shell worn through, some have stripped threads, and some (like yours) have internal problems. It's possible to use the better components from several ruined crowns to make a few usable ones, and I've done that numerous times over the years. If you like, I'd be happy to take a look at your friend's crown, and see if I have the necessary parts to repair it (which I probably do).

I wouldn't recommend reaming out the original case tube, as the threaded portion that screws into the case is already very thin, and it will be significantly weakened if you thin it additionally. Besides that, there's no guarantee it'll cure your problem anyway, especially if the shaft from the generic crown won't fit the genuine one.

To remove a ruined crown post from an otherwise good winding stem, it's only necessary to flatten the ruined crown post between the jaws of a pair of flat-jawed pliers. Obviously, that will finish destroying the remaining section of crown post, but it will spread it around the much harder steel stem, and allow it to be easily removed. That trick works not only on broken Oyster crowns, but also on eroded Seiko crowns, etc.

If the shaft (the part the o-ring seal fits around) of the crown on your friend's watch is broken, you shouldn't need to remove the post from the stem. You'll just install a new outer section around it, install a new spring, and screw the whole assembly into the crown using a correctly fitting lathe collet to hold the shaft. For that particular union, it's always necessary to apply a thread lock / sealer, to insure that the parts remain firmly together and watertight.

If the threaded part of the crown shaft is broken off flush inside the crown, it's going to be a problem getting the old threaded section out. The best bet would probably be to heat the crown enough to burn out the thread lock / sealer, but in the process of doing that, you'll need to be careful not to discolor the crown.

Feel free to contact me by e-mail if I can be of additional assistance.

======================

Steve Maddox
President, NAWCC Chapter #62
North Little Rock, Arkansas

 

[Howardman]

HI MIKE,
PLEASE GIVE ME A CALL & I WILL EXPLAIN WHAT MAY HELP 330-864-3405
RAY TYULTY
CERTIFIED ROLEX WATCHMAKER

 

[Mike Kearney]

Here's an update on the Datejust.

Steve, thanks for your offer, but the crown was lost when it originally broke off the watch.

Ray, I tried to contact you several times, but no luck.

Doug, you were right all along, and it's not that I didn't listen, I just had to find out what you were saying for myself.

The Datejust is back in the hands of its owner, unrepaired but unmolested. I shared this thread with the owner and we agreed it would be best to let Rolex service it and replace the lost crown. For what it's worth, his wife has been renovating their kitchen and bathrooms, and he told me the cost ($400) of a Rolex service pales in comparison to these projects. So all's well that ends well. Thanks again.

Regards,
Mike

 

[Howardman]

HI MIKE,
SORRY I MISSED YOU. EMAIL ME YOU PHONE # & I WILL CALL. EVE's ARE BEST FOR ME AFTER 9:45 PM EST DAYLITE TO 10:55 PM
RAY TYULTY
howardman@howardman.com

 

[Explorer]

I hope this thread still has some members interested here

 

[Explorer]

(to be specific to my previous post )

Mike,
To remove a ruined crown post from an otherwise good winding stem, it's only necessary to flatten the ruined crown post between the jaws of a pair of flat-jawed pliers. Obviously, that will finish destroying the remaining section of crown post, but it will spread it around the much harder steel stem, and allow it to be easily removed. That trick works not only on broken Oyster crowns, but also on eroded Seiko crowns, etc.

to do this, you would obviously need to remove the case back and then remove the stem from the movement??

thanks

 

[tkarter]

Yes you have to remove the stem. It isn't rocket science.

Servicing a Rolex when you don't know how is going to cost you money that you won't be able to recover.