Removing unusual fastener on ratchet wheel. Swiss pocket watch.

[MrRoundel]

Greetings all,

Any tips on removing this fastener on this ratchet wheel? Unfortunately, there have been a few screws that have been crazy tight on this watch. I'm finding this is no different, so the best idea for getting good purchase on the fastener is appreciated. I've seen the style before, but have never had to deal with removing it. Thanks for any help given. Cheers.

 

[roughbarked]

I'd probaly start with a pair of round nose pliers but if tha wasn't working I could use my adjustable case opener for screw thread watches or indeed could weld two pins on a flat piece of steel and use that. Just like the angle grinder spanner.
Beware though. Because it is on a ratchet wheel and particularly if you think the watch could be an AS. Then it likely could be a right hand thread.

 

[MrRoundel]

Thanks for your suggestions, roughbarked. I tried with some round-ish nose pliers, but it didn't budge. I tried going clockwise a bit, but that didn't work either. I don't think the watch is an AS. It looks like a watch that was made in Switzerland to look like something from Germany, as in the style of Lange or Assman. I'll attach an image tomorrow.

I may see if I have a snap-ring pliers that will close down enough to fit the ratchet wheel nut. Thanks again. Cheers.

 

[Appa69]

Is it on the ratchet wheel or the crown wheel? If it's on the ratchet wheel its most likely standard thread. Did you try a drop of oil? Given some time to sit it still works wonders. I've never had to deal with one so tight that steel tweezers wouldn't loosen them...

 

[MrRoundel]

Appa69 , No, haven't tried putting oil on it, but it did cross my mind. I will do that, as it wouldn't hurt. Thanks

I'll attach an image of the back of the watch, sans balance, to show that it's unlikely that it's an AS movement. The watch is around a 16s, but with a smaller back plate. There is a stepped brass spacer ring/dust ring that makes them "flow" together a bit. It's an odd one. Surely Swiss. It even has the depthing marks and the silvery gilding of such If anyone is interested, I'll post an image of the under-dial. Thanks again, friends. Cheers.

 

[MrRoundel]

I put a spot of oil on the top of the ratchet wheel nut and then used a set of snap-ring pliers to loosen it. Snap-On tools Blue-point line, 12A part number. They're cool because they are reversible and can be locked in a spread position. I put a piece of blue masking tape, with a small hole cut out of the center, to protect the wheel finish. Everything worked according to plan. Now, on to the next tight fastener. Thanks for the help, all. Cheers.

 

[roughbarked]

It may be possible to look to Landeron as the maker?

 

[roughbarked]

It may be possible to look to Landeron as the maker?

I said this because there is a Landeron that goes very close.

bidfun-db Archive: Watch Movements: Alpina 19'''H6.8 (=Landeron 19''')

www.ranfft.de

I am aware that it has been cleared as System Glasshute.

 

[MrRoundel]

I was wondering about whether that upper escape wheel jewel was machined into the plate just for the German look. This does seem to be the case.

Now I'm working on removing a very stubborn center-pin from the canon pinion. I've been trying my usual method of using my staking tool with an round, open stump, coupled with my sub-punch set. As has been the case with most of the screws on this watch, it isn't coming easily. I'm thinking what I might do is try knocking the canon pinion on further, providing there is play underneath it. Maybe it will free up the freeze making it easier to knock it back out.

I don't know that I've ever found a published technique for removing these Swiss style canon pinions. If you have a good one, I'm all appreciative eyes.

roughbarked , yes, it does look like a System Glashutte watch is a more perfect match. The last one shown in the "System Glashutte" link provided by miguel angel cladera on in the European watch section, is bang on, isn't it? Cheers.

 

[MrRoundel]

OK, I got the pin out of the canon pinion using the sub-punch. It seems important to rest the watch on a solid backing that doesn't distribute any of the focused hammer-tap energy anywhere that's useless. I first tried a small piece of chamois between the hollow stump and the upper plate. I then tried resting the movement on a piece of round pithwood. Both must have absorbed/wasted energy.

I ended up placing a piece of blue masking tape over the hollow stump. That protected the plate finish while absorbing a lot less of the force between the hammer and the sub-punch. It's a bit nerve-wracking as the sub-punch does tend to deflect a bit and I'd hate to break one of what is a complete set. I have seen incomplete sets, and now I think I know why. Anyway, here I go, on to the next tight fastener in what is becoming a long line. This watch probably sat in a drawer for over 80 years without a service before someone visited the scrapper. The watch dial is very nice, double-sunk with Arabic numerals, but has a thin coating of dust on it that makes it look like it was melted in one of the last big gold melt cycles, not our present one. Cheers, all.

Note: I was wrong about the upper escape wheel jewel. It does look like the screw-down is functional, as there are steady pins on the bottom. Somehow that makes me happy.

 

[roughbarked]

Did you try oiling the canon pinion first?

 

[MrRoundel]

Did you try oiling the canon pinion first?

Yes, I hit it with a spot of Moebius 9010, about $5.00 worth , and gave it time to work. Removing these when they're stubborn seems to be one of those many times when a third hand would be very convenient. I will admit that this isn't the first time I've had difficulty with this style of canon pinion, but it may have taken the most effort. Again though, I did find out, for the second time, methinks, that the a non impact absorbing backup is crucial. Thanks for all. Cheers.

 

[everydaycats]

Greetings all,

Any tips on removing this fastener on this ratchet wheel? Unfortunately, there have been a few screws that have been crazy tight on this watch. I'm finding this is no different, so the best idea for getting good purchase on the fastener is appreciated. I've seen the style before, but have never had to deal with removing it. Thanks for any help given. Cheers.

View attachment 757358

If this is a Safety Barrel then maybe the ratchet wheel is supposed to stay on the bridge plate.
Regards

 

[MrRoundel]

No, I don't believe it's a safety barrel. I don't have the barrel apart yet. Would a safety barrel have to have a two-piece arbor? I have to psyche up for dealing with the stopworks. It does have a stopworks, FWIW. Anyway...too late. Thanks. Cheers.

 

[everydaycats]

No, I don't believe it's a safety barrel. I don't have the barrel apart yet. Would a safety barrel have to have a two-piece arbor? I have to psyche up for dealing with the stopworks. It does have a stopworks, FWIW. Anyway...too late. Thanks. Cheers.

My dad loved Snap-On tools....Glad they worked.
Regards