Regula 34 cuckoo movement won't stop cuckooing

Discussion in 'Clock Repair' started by TopFuel123, Aug 31, 2019.

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  1. TopFuel123

    TopFuel123 Registered User

    Sep 27, 2012
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    Hi guys, well I'm a little more experienced than the last time I posted, but still a lot to learn. This is the second time I have run into this problem. I'm working on a cuckoo where the music movement is kind of far away from the time movement so the music triggering arms (wires) extend farther out than normal and the extra weight is keeping the strike stop arm from dropping down into the gathering pallet nest. If I lift up slightly on the arms it stops cuckooing correctly. The last time I ran into this it was even worse, the arms were heavier and extended out farther. I solved it that time by connecting a tiny extension spring to the arm to pull it up and it worked perfectly. My question here is do they make a stronger strike stop arm spring, or can I bend the spring to increase the amount of tension? I should mention that this cuckoo came with a 1 day Regula movement and I am attempting to use the same music triggering arms from it. The fact that the cuckoo worked fine with the Regula 25 movement and that same triggering arm, leads me to believe that it must have had a stronger spring or the 8 day movement I am installing has a worn out spring. My fix the last time was kind of Mickey Mouse so I would like to do it correctly this time. Has anyone out there run into this, and how did you solve it? Thanks for any help you guys can give me, and thanks in advance. T K.
    P.S. Thought I would show my computer desk / modified work bench. Works great

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  2. disciple_dan

    disciple_dan Registered User

    Mar 10, 2016
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    Is the bird post retracting and it continues to run? Make sure you have the bird actuator synced with the bird post. If the bird is not returning and the rack hook pin is jumping out at the gathering pallet look at the tab that is on rack hook that goes into the movement just above the elbow of the rack. I just had one that I had to adjust that tab so that the bird returned and the pin dropped into its saddle.
    That worked for me. Hope it helps. Danny
     
  3. bangster

    bangster Moderator
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    #3 bangster, Aug 31, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2019
    Terminology:

    rack pic annotated 2.jpg


    In normal operation, the gathering pallet raises the rack one tooth at a time. When the last tooth is gathered, the rack hook falls under the end of the rack, the rack hook pin drops into the notch of the GP, the detent falls into the path of the stop pin, and the train stops.

    Here's what I think you're describing. The music wires are on the same arbor as the rack hook. When the rack drops, the rack hook rises and the music wires drop. The weight of the wires is enough to prevent the rack hook from dropping, so the detent never intercepts the stop pin, so the train never stops. Is that it?

    The rack hook normally operates by gravity, plus a little boost from a helper spring. Your first proposal was to add a lift spring to the music wires, diminishing their resistance to the rack hook. Right? You think that's mickey mouse, and wonder if they make a stronger rack hook helper spring.

    The answer is: I doubt it. But you might be able to adapt a different spring for the purpose. Or, as you suggest, you might increase the effectiveness of the spring by bending it down.

    That is certainly worth a try. No harm done, and if it doesn't work, it's reversible.

    I say go for it.

    rack pic annotated.jpg
     
  4. disciple_dan

    disciple_dan Registered User

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    If it was working with the 25 I doubt it is a weak spring. If the music wires are not adjusted correctly they could be holding the rack hook up just a bit. I'd check that too. There are several causes for your situation.
     
  5. disciple_dan

    disciple_dan Registered User

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    Get it working on the test stand and then install it and adjust the wires.
     
  6. bangster

    bangster Moderator
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    I don't think it's a matter of music wire adjustment; I think (with the OP) that it's a matter of leverage: the weight of the extra long music wires prevents the rack from falling. They introduce a new factor that the original spring wasn't meant to handle.
     
  7. TopFuel123

    TopFuel123 Registered User

    Sep 27, 2012
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    Bangster, Yes an yes, right on both counts. I think I'll try bending the spring to increase the down pressure first. Like you said, no harm and I have a bunch of the springs that I can steal for my parts movements. If that fails I can always go back to Mickey Mouse. This is my Mickey Mouse method, only it was a lot more professionally done with a much smaller spring. Danny; the bird post mechanism is working correctly. Thanks guys, I will post what I find out works and my solution, T.K.

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  8. TopFuel123

    TopFuel123 Registered User

    Sep 27, 2012
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    Bangster, yes again, that is exactly what is happening. The fact that it did work when the clock was new is telling me that the strike stop arm spring has gotten fatigued and just can't compensate for the weight any longer.
     
  9. TopFuel123

    TopFuel123 Registered User

    Sep 27, 2012
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    Bangster, I might be confusing everyone. In the book I learned from what you call the rack hook is called a strike stop arm. Am I calling it the wrong thing??
     
  10. bangster

    bangster Moderator
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    Never heard it called that before. But I guess it's OK. Is it perhaps a UK book? Terminologies vary across the pond.
     
  11. TopFuel123

    TopFuel123 Registered User

    Sep 27, 2012
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    Bangster, do you know if there is any place here that shows the part names? Here is the book.

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  12. TopFuel123

    TopFuel123 Registered User

    Sep 27, 2012
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    I will get back in the morning, my neck has reached it's working on cuckoos pain limit. Am going to try bending the spring first thing in the morning. Thanks again, T.K.
     
  13. bangster

    bangster Moderator
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    He's being idiosyncratic. All the entries HERE that call it anything, call it the rack hook.
     
    disciple_dan likes this.
  14. Chris D

    Chris D Registered User

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    I usually find that 99% of the time, the wire that stops the fan from turning on the governor while it's cuckooing, is getting caught up on a part of the governor.
     
  15. TopFuel123

    TopFuel123 Registered User

    Sep 27, 2012
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    Well guys, bending the spring worked perfectly. I overdid it the first time and it slammed the rack stop down like a hammer so I had to weaken it just a bit, and that did it. Now like Chris D mentioned I am having trouble worse than any other cuckoo I have worked on getting the 2 wires bent correctly timed to trip the music and keep the fan from spinning while it is cuckooing. These wires are a much bigger dia. to compensate for the length they stick out so it makes it so hard to keep bending them just right. The fan stop wire has to be so close to the governor that a tiny bit too close and it catches on the support for the fan shaft. It's making me crazy, nothing will test your patience like this adjustment on cuckoo clocks in my opinion. Now I have a weird scratching sound from the music that I have run across before and never been able to find it. it makes a faint scratching sound like it is perfectly timed for every second, and watching the movement I don't see anything turning that corresponds to once a second. It's like a scratchy squeak. You can't tell when you are standing a few feet away from the front of the clock. Has anybody here ever run across this? Thanks Bangster for giving me the courage to try bending the spring wire, I hope it helps someone else on here that might run into this same problem to know that doing it does work. T.K.
     
  16. bangster

    bangster Moderator
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    TK my heart goes out to you in your project to adapt that movement to that music box. Bending those wires to do their job can be a career in itself. When you finally succeed, let us know.:emoji_boy:
     
  17. shutterbug

    shutterbug Moderator
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    As in all things related to clocks, SMALL adjustments make huge changes :D
     
  18. Chris D

    Chris D Registered User

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    The scratchy/squeaky sound is because the dampers on the back of the mb comb are worn out. It's another time consuming job. You need to remove the comb first, pick off the old dampers, I use an xacto knife, and glue on the new ones. I put a drop of super glue down and then hold the new dampers with a tweezer and dip the tips into the super glue and set them in place. Once they have dried, then I trim them with a small scissor so they're exactly even with the tips of the comb. If they're too long some of the notes will sound more like a thud and if you cut them too short, you'll get the squeaks again. Also, with magnification, check your comb up a against a light and make sure you can see daylight between each finger. If you see any dark spots, run an xacto knife through there and clean it out. Then comes putting the comb back on and adjusting it properly. I would leave off the stop lever until you get the comb set and then put the stop lever on and get that adjusted. You can get the dampers at Black Forest Imports or Frankenmuth. Good luck!
     
  19. TopFuel123

    TopFuel123 Registered User

    Sep 27, 2012
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    Well, I finally got the music working correctly. Thanks to my high school geometry classes I finally figured out why I couldn't get it right. The farther you go away from the center of the arm, the farther it swings through it's arc during it's cycle so I had to grind off the corner of the music movement so it could go far enough back to get it to keep from going off the fan during it's cycle. But what a nightmare Bangster, those wires are so big in dia. they are near impossible to bend and keep from throwing the previous adjustment off. I must have had to walk away from it 15 times to keep from throwing the clock out in the street so someone would run it over. This cuckoo was just an experiment in learning so I'm not concerned how it looks but since I was altering it I should have just moved the music movement up, now I know, lesson learned. And last night I began to wonder about those dampers on the back of the comb Chris, but I didn't think they would cause that kind of a sound. I have never fooled with them yet because I was scared I would screw up the movement, but this movement was in a cuckoo that sat out in the rain so it would be the perfect one to try it on. I thought you would have to cut each one to fit each tooth. What do you do just glue a whole pc across them and the cut them apart? What would I call them on Frankenmuth because I've never seen them. I have a couple of old movements so I might as well learn how to do it, Thanks Chris D. T.K.

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  20. Chris D

    Chris D Registered User

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    Here's a link to them Music Box Dampers Set
    I put a dot of super glue on something and then take a tweezer and dip the tips of the dampers in the glue and then set it in place on the comb. Then once the glue dries, I take a small scissor and trim of the ends.

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  21. TopFuel123

    TopFuel123 Registered User

    Sep 27, 2012
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    Hi Chris and thank you, I found them on Frankenmuth and ordered them. I will be back when I get them and let you know how it goes. Thanks again I really appreciate the help, T.K.
     
  22. TopFuel123

    TopFuel123 Registered User

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    One more question Chris, will I be able to see which tooth is causing the squeaking? Will the damper be loose or missing?
     
  23. Chris D

    Chris D Registered User

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    Yes, you should be able to figure it out, they do fall off. The other thing that happens is they get notches worn into them at the tip. The way it's supposed to work is, as the pins on the drum come around, they should hit the damper first which stops any vibration that may be happening from the last note. You can hold the MB upside down and give it a turn and see the interaction.
     
  24. TopFuel123

    TopFuel123 Registered User

    Sep 27, 2012
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    Thanks Chris, I'm going to wait until dampers get here to pull the MB out but I am really anxious to see what's up with it. Thanks again, Terry
     
  25. TopFuel123

    TopFuel123 Registered User

    Sep 27, 2012
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    Well I couldn't wait. Here is pics of the comb, I assume it's shot. Is there anywhere I can find some instructions on how to fix this, I am lost here. Is there anyplace I can just get a replacement comb? thanks Terry

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  26. Uhralt

    Uhralt Registered User
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    Why do you think it is shot? As far as I can see all the teeth are still there and only the dampers need to be replaced. I have seen instructions for how to do this somewhere here on the board not so long ago. You can search for them using the search function. A replacement comb is almost impossible to find.

    Uhralt
     
  27. TopFuel123

    TopFuel123 Registered User

    Sep 27, 2012
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    Hi Uhralt, I have to claim "chicken" here, I only thought if I could just get a comb I wouldn't have to try doing the dampers. I have to admit I'm a little scared to try it but I have no choice. That's probably a good thing because now it forces me to learn how to do it. After I thought it out I ordered the dampers and am going to give it a shot, I just have to make sure to lay off the second cup of coffee that day. Terry
     
  28. TopFuel123

    TopFuel123 Registered User

    Sep 27, 2012
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    Hi Chris D. and Uhralt, well I'm back and ready to do the dampers. I have cleaned all the old glue and the dampers off the comb. Now I have a question, do I have to put dampers on every tooth of the comb? some were missing so I don't know how far down they were originally on it from left to right. It looked to me like they were on all the teeth with the raised step on them and maybe a few without the step. My picture with pointer is where I think they stopped. Other than that I am ready to do them. If you guys can tell me how far down to put them on I will go for it in the morning (without my coffee) Terry

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  29. Chris D

    Chris D Registered User

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    They only need to go on the ones with the steps. The two in the middle that don't have much to attach the damper to, may be a little tricky. Those get glued right above the step and just stick up on an angle. Problem is, sometimes they're not long enough to do the job. Most of the time they're not needed though, so I usually leave them off and give it a try. You don't need to install the MB, just hold it on the case and turn it by hand, or if you have an old chain, you can put it on and the weight and run it through a cycle.
     
  30. TopFuel123

    TopFuel123 Registered User

    Sep 27, 2012
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    Thank you Chris, I will be back to let you know how it worked with a picture hopefully and thank you again, Terry
     

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