Regula 25- K Cuckoo with Music and Dancers

Discussion in 'Clock Repair' started by THTanner, May 20, 2019.

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  1. THTanner

    THTanner Registered User
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    Jul 3, 2016
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    This cuckoo came in with several issues including nickles glued to the tops of the bellows and bent wires for the music box. All of that is straightened out, but I am wondering what you all might suggest for this broken, plastic, chain drive part on the music?

    I have looked all over and cannot find anything close enough to fit in the small clock box. It also has plastic teeth on the back of the broken part that drive the dancers' gears.

    I am pretty much down to trying to glue this back together. The broken shaft is turned directly by the music weight chain with a set of plastic clicks. I can see why this is no longer made.

    The brass collar with two set screws holds it to the music box shaft and I suspect whoever glued the nickles to the bellows tops tightened things up a bit too much, cracked the plastic and it later failed totally.

    I am thinking of plastic epoxy to try to hold it all together, but I have little confidence that it will last very long. Any other ideas? Or does anyone know of a site other than Timesavers, Blackforest or Perrins that might have this?
    thanks
    tom

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  2. shutterbug

    shutterbug Moderator
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    The movement might still be available. You'd have to post pic's of it so we could advise. Otherwise, you could have the gear made.
     
  3. THTanner

    THTanner Registered User
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    The movement is available - it is a standard Regula 25. I am told the K is a dating code. What is not standard is how the platform is driven with this plastic music box ratchet with the plastic gear ring on the back. It all fits so tight in this small box that I have been able to find a ratchet and gear combination that can replace the broken one.

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  4. shutterbug

    shutterbug Moderator
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    Ahhh, I see your dilemma now. You might be able to match two different kinds of gears to drive the dancers?
     
  5. THTanner

    THTanner Registered User
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    so far all my alteration ideas have failed due to space. the entire chain drive assembly, from the front of the shaft to the back of the teeth is just 5/8 th of an inch. It is hard to find just a ratchet assembly that thin.

    If you were going to glue this - what glue would you try? There are some plastic specific epoxies that claim to be really strong. But the whole design is so minimal that the glued surface will be two small areas about 1/16 x 1/8 on each side of the shaft and are inside the bronze collar.
     
  6. shutterbug

    shutterbug Moderator
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    You have two dissimilar materials, so any glue would be a crap shoot. Maybe J B Weld would be worth a shot.
     
  7. THTanner

    THTanner Registered User
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    I mixed up a small batch of JB Weld KwikWeld suitable for plastic and put the broken piece of plastic back on the shaft. It looks pretty weak.

    So I am now puzzling over what I consider a major no-no - which is to now JB Weld the brass collar to the broken shaft as well. This would stabilize the whole shaft a lot better, but it would not be reversible. The whole assembly could be removed as one piece instead of three from the music box shaft, but there would be no way to work on what are now three separate pieces.

    There is a Regula 25 with dancers and a music box activation lever that would fit in the box with hands and dancers at the correct position, but no way to power the music box which sits above one of the bellows (unless I cut some new holes and make it a four weight cuckoo :X )
     
  8. R&A

    R&A Registered User

    Oct 21, 2008
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    Black Forest Imports has these gears you need The drive gear and ratchet wheel are metal for the replacement Call Scotty You may have to convert to a different set up
     
  9. THTanner

    THTanner Registered User
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    Thanks - I will try him tomorrow - my search today showed the brass ratchet wheel, but it does not appear to have the crown ring of teeth on the back to drive the dancers. It would be great if he has one with the teeth or knows where to get one.

    The JB Weld held for two pulls on the chain then failed - I was actually surprised it held that well.

    So plan B is a brass sleeve just a bit larger than the music box shaft, cross cut and splayed at one end and melted into the slightly drilled out plastic.
    The sleeve has two holes for the set screws to go through to tighten firmly onto the shaft.

    A new, complete, brass assembly will be better if Blackforest has one, but I think this sleeve will have to do if they don't.

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  10. THTanner

    THTanner Registered User
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    Unless Blackforest has a good replacement this will have to do.

    One set screw secures the collar to the sleeve, the other set screw passes through the sleeve and secures the whole set to the music box shaft.

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  11. kinsler33

    kinsler33 Registered User

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    I think I'd try pinning the brass collar to the black plastic wheel, using a fine [<1/16"] twist drill to make several blind holes in one end of the brass collar with corresponding holes through the plastic wheel. If you could temporarily glue the two parts together such that they're concentric and accurately aligned
    you could drill right through the plastic and into the brass. Then make brass or steel pins that fit the holes fairly closely, apply the adhesive of your choice, and glue the pins into both brass and steel together. Or it might be more secure to separate the parts after the holes are drilled and solder/glue the pins into the brass first and then fit the plastic onto the projecting pins with some cyanoacrylate glue.

    I should put in a recommendation here for the unlikely-looking and non-cheap Dap "Rapid Fuse" glue. It seems to be a new product that's just like your standard Crazy or Super Glue except that it cures and holds with tremendous strength in weird situations and to unusual materials. Dap is the same company that makes plastering supplies like spackling, but this stuff does not fall into anywhere near the same category. Comes in tiny tubes.

    Mark Kinsler
     
  12. bangster

    bangster Moderator
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    I've never seen a 2-chain music cuckoo before. What drives the music and dancers?
     
  13. THTanner

    THTanner Registered User
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  14. THTanner

    THTanner Registered User
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    This is a three chain clock - the usual two chain Regula 25 and a separate chain driving the music box which drives the dancers. The usual music box control levers from the Regula 25 start and stop the music and dancers
     
  15. bangster

    bangster Moderator
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    Oh. Thanks. Can't see third chain in pic.
     
  16. THTanner

    THTanner Registered User
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    yeah that pic was with the music box removed to show the gearing for the dancers - the music box goes on the right side in that pic and the round cut out toward the front board is how you get to the set screw to adjust the depth of the crown ring and the dancer's gear
     
  17. THTanner

    THTanner Registered User
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    Thanks R&A - after discussing with Scotty, I ordered the closest they had. It didn't quite fit, but after some carving on the front board to get an extra 1/8th + a little, and moving the music box a smidgen closer to the back, the new brass gear clears the wood and no more damaged plastic part. The front board is not too thick, but what I had to carve out should not affect anything or cause any weakness. The next guy will have to pay attention to the two sets of screw holes in the music box mounting board, but that is to be expected.
     
  18. R&A

    R&A Registered User

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    Your welcome
     

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