Reading Bulletin online

Discussion in 'Horological Misc' started by Kevin W., Nov 30, 2018.

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  1. Kevin W.

    Kevin W. Registered User
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    I remember before when the bulletin was available online. As that is what i paid for, since i dont need a hard copy. Today i found the bulletin, but only select pages would open. Is there a link or some other location on the web site i can read the whole bulletin online.
    Thanks.
     
  2. Jerry Treiman

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    The Bulletin (current and back issues) should be fully readable on-line to members.
    https://nawcc.org/index.php/publications-home
    You need to log on with your member log-in (blue banner at the top right) rather than your message board log-in.
     
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  3. Kevin W.

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    #3 Kevin W., Nov 30, 2018
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2018
    Thanks for the quick reply Jerry.
    Well i just had a look, same problem, i cant look at it page by page, just some of the pages.And i signed in as well into the blue section.
     
  4. Jerry Treiman

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    I think I see what may be happening. To keep file size (and download time) to a minimum you can click on and read any article by itself, but not the entire issue at once. However, you should be able to access any article or feature from each issue main page by clicking on the appropriate page number to the left. If some of the pages are still not accessible it will take someone more savvy than I to sort it out.
     
  5. Jim DuBois

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    Not that it much matters but I have a 2000+ page clock related document, with a lot of photos, that approaches 1/2 GB in size, that will download from the cloud in a very few seconds, less than 10. I do have a fast internet connection but it seems that both the current bulletins as well as all those past could be made available in a single PDF and resolve the issues identified above. For those with a very slow connection I suspect these larger files could still be processed in a tolerable period of time. It is so much easier to have it all in one file, able to search, look through it, and consider it more or less like the hard copy.
     
  6. Jim DuBois

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    So, I downloaded all the online pages to the most recent bulletin. I combined them into a single PDF file, it is 6.8 mb in size, I uploaded it to my cloud site in milliseconds. If any one wants to give it a test drive PM me and I will send you a link. I will be taking the document down soon as I don't really want to run astray with those who think a proof of concept is a violation of copywrite and all that stuff...
     
  7. DeweyC

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    Thank you Jim. May also be a limitation on the server/connection. Hopefully this reflects increased demand for the online version.

    Maybe Tom McIntyre knows.
     
  8. Jim DuBois

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    In years past documents of the size of my combined version of the Bulletin could have been a choke point. Today, not so much. Given the industries current technology and cost of data management and SW interface and all that good stuff there is a lot that could be done with our data as well as how we access it. It could be a lot more user friendly, it could have much better search tools, on and on. That said our biggest hurdle is that of resources, and those resources necessary includes a vision of what can be done, what should be done, and what are we going to do?

    I can't see the big picture from here, I don't know the overall NAWCC vision of our data storage and retrieval/ our overall information/outbound communication for the future. All things considered I have been keeping my mouth shut on several such things. Why? The resources we have, staring with Tom McIntyre, have been doing a yeoman's job of managing all they manage. To toss in my Christmas shopping list only complicates life for them, which I do not want to do. That is why I have not approached Tom, or others on these subjects. I was working on a paper of things the NAWCC should be interested in today...when I thought about it more globally it became clear we had some foundation repair underway, and very necessary repair came well before anything on my list... Critics have a much easier life than do playwrights?

    And a very big and belated thanks to Tom and all the others who work diligently to deliver the excellent product we have today.
     
  9. Kevin W.

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    I have high speed internet now and i did before when i read the bulletin online before, i believe in 2016. Kind of disapointing when you pay the money to be a member and you cant read all the bulletin.
     
  10. DeweyC

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    Jim,

    I agree that the staff and volunteers do the best they can with the resources available. I was just offering a way to get an understanding of the change.

    To my mind, increased demand for the online version is a good thing. It reduces one of the overhead and distribution costs. If the choke point is at Columbia, the organizational question is where the cost of online service is accounted for and if the budget is correct. I would not be surprised to learn it is not treated the same as the physical Bulletin.
     
  11. Kevin W.

    Kevin W. Registered User
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    I really enjoyed reading the bulletin before online, one reason why i renewed my membership, to read it.
     
  12. Tom McIntyre

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    Since the Bulletin on-line is a member benefit, I think the BOD and Staff may not be fully comfortable with it being copied and possibly redistributed.

    Having said that, I believe we are very close to needing to move a lot of our resources to the cloud and probably use a content distribution system like CloudShare to ensure that there are minimal delays in downloading.

    I am not entirely clear on what the issue is on opening the Bulletin on-line. When you click on the current issue link, you are shown the table of contents. Each of the page numbers in that table of contents opens the article. Several years ago we did have a page flipper app to serve that PDF which I thought at the time was essentially silly.

    As it is set up now the PDF document replaces the contents page when you click on an articles. I would prefer that the article open in a separate tab. However, it is not a big deal to right click the link and have it open in a new tab.

    If the only action were to download the entire document,a significant number of our users would not be able to use it at all, so it seems like a reasonable compromise to do it article by article.

    As Jim demonstrated, if you really want a big one, you can download all of them and combine them into a single PDF using Adobe Acrobat. (Note: you need to be using a Mac to do this for free. Adobe charges for this extension to Acrobat.)
     
  13. PatH

    PatH National Program Chair
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    Hi, Kevin, and welcome back!

    I prefer to get the hard copy Bulletin, but do often end up looking for information online. Although the Mart and Highlights is available as a single file online, I don't recall having the Bulletin in any other format than we have today where you can click on the issue you are interested in, then click on the links for each story/section of the Bulletin. If you are logged on the NAWCC website, you should be able to see the entire Bulletin, just one story at a time. Am I misunderstanding, or are there sections that you cannot access at all?

    Pat
     
  14. Jim DuBois

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    I have read a lot of books, the vast majority have been hard copy. About 10 years ago I started reading books on line and have not bought a hard copy since. But, for things like the bulletin I still prefer paper copy. There are many reasons why the electronic version is better, I just find the hard copy to fall naturally into my casual use habits. It is more pleasurable I think.

    But, to your point of overhead and distribution costs; For example, I met briefly with a visiting book author 2 days ago. His book is available on line at Amazon (and others) where a paperback copy is $21.95 plus shipping where applicable. The electronic version download is $5.38. He gets the same royalty from either. And no postage on the electronic version either. Immediate delivery too. I would think the NAWCC experiences a decent savings also for the electronic version and at some point in time the paper versions will pass into the twilight.
     
  15. Tom McIntyre

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    Jim, neither of us are youngsters, but there are many members still who are very intimidated by any on-line material. They use FaceBook under duress because it is the only way they can communicate with their grandchildren.

    I still get the hard copy, but I do not keep them. I distribute them to doctor's offices and mechanic's waiting rooms.
     
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  16. Jerry Treiman

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    I certainly hope not. If they do fade away, I doubt that in 100 years (or sooner) the digital versions will be easily readable or even survive. I have already seen too many digital publications disappear or become unreadable. Fortunately we still have paper records (we called them books) that go back hundreds of years. ... no batteries or technology required. Print media, distributed and archived to many libraries, survive. They can then be scanned for convenient reading and distribution in the preferred format of the day (as we do today), but I would hope we retain the physical copy as backup.
     
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  17. Kevin W.

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    I guess they only acess the articles that are interesting, as you cant see each page one by one, like it used to be, thats what i am talking about. Some how i seem to be misunderstood. If i had a physical, hard copy of the bulletin in front of me, i could turn it page by page, as it is now, it does not seem possible.
     
  18. PatH

    PatH National Program Chair
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    Hi, Kevin -

    Agree that you can't turn page by page like you can on the Mart and Highlights, but you should be able to see all pages if you are signed on. The screen shot below is what I see on the Current Issue on the Publications tab. The articles are listed before the other content, so it's not like flipping through the entire Bulletin, but I can click on the page number and it opens a pdf to read the entire article. I like it because I can enlarge the image to get a better look at a watch movement or a clock tablet. When I have read that article, I can go to the next article or section that interests me and do the same. I'm not sure if you are finding something different that you feel they only access the articles that are interesting.

    Please let me know if this isn't what you experience. I'd really like to understand as it may be something others are also experiencing. Thanks for bearing with me to help me understand.

    Thanks,
    Pat

    Bulletin screen shot.png
     
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  19. Kevin W.

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    Hi Pat, thanks for replying. Yes that is exactly what i see and what is happening. Yes i have been reading some of the articles in pdf.
     
  20. DeweyC

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    My two cents on paper vs PDF: I prefer technical material to be in paper where I can keep flipping between sections and drawings. For recreational reading (including factual literature) I prefer electronic material.

    Tom, Omega discourages copyright violations by watermarking the account holder on every page of a downloaded tech guide. Doubt it stops it completely, but I bet it does reduce it. Just a thought.

    When I was doing research papers I would have articles and books all over the floor for quick reference and organize the articles into expanding folders by purpose. To be honest, I cannot imagine writing papers any other way; but then I also remember Selectrics and white out.

    I know there is a way to annotate electronic materials, but nothing beats post it notes at important pages.

    I cannot stand the PDF Tech Bulletins even though they are in color. I always print them out and bring them to the bench.

    I do prefer the Bulletin as PDF because I consider most of it recreational reading and there is little reason to take up space these days with a physical library of them. They are all online.

    One thing that is changing distribution dramatically is the "book on demand" printing model. And for archival purposes, I agree a physical copy must be kept.

    But an advantage of digital is that the copy does not degrade like a paper document. So perhaps both are actually needed.

    At this point, I doubt PDF and other forms will be orphaned. Too many legal and government documents. I think backward compatibility will almost be required. Should current formats be abandoned, I am sure there will be plenty of time to transition. Even today you can get 8 track and VCR tapes converted.
     
  21. Jim DuBois

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    Of the issues concerning the NAWCC and the Bulletin I would suggest that copywrite violation is well down the priority list. There are substantially more important issues, such as finding and publishing high quality information around clocks and watches, getting more than 10% of our membership to read relevant portions (or any) to their interests in the Bulletin, getting more than a very few content providers to even try to publish, on and on.

    The OP in this thread opened the discussion around the ability and ease to read the document on line. It appears to me that we can confirm the on line version is not as graceful or helpful as some of us think is needed, today. Where we are today is not where we need to be going forward. Electronic technology will prevail just as papyrus prevailed over clay tables, and velum won out over papyrus, and then rag paper over velum on and on....the ease of sorting through and finding needed information is sooooooo much easier electronically. I have a full set of the Bulletins, since day 1 in 1943. I used to dig through them many times a day/week/month researching this or that. Since the advent of online Bulletins I very seldom touch the paper bulletins, other than review the current months edition.

    If one really doubts the transition is underway, and generally irreversible, look at local papers, or Newsweek, or GQ, National Geographic, or any of a hundred or so publications. I used to subscribe to perhaps 15-20 monthly publications. Today, none. And I have more and better and more retrievable information than ever before. I am not trying to argue the points pro or con, but merely reporting what I see. The paper Bulletin will be around for awhile but sooner or later it will become an extinct artifact of better times, sadly so.
     
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  22. rmarkowitz1_cee4a1

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    010.jpg

    I do agree with what is well said here (by Jim, not in the cuneiform table).

    I do hope that it comes through in my postings that I try to share the research I have done bolstered by what I hope are considered appropriate and decent images. I have thought about submitting material to the Bulletin. However, I have chosen to disseminate the fruits of my labors virtually on the MB. It is easy, fast and essentially peer reviewed when people read and respond and better yet, discuss on-line. I also believe that it is ultimately more effective in reaching people. Finally, I find the procedure of submitting things to the editorial staff somewhat, well, cumbersome and limiting at best. There have been a few times when I have submitted what I thought were well considered corrections to what I considered inaccurate information in the Bulletin to be completely ignored. Okay, don't publish it. But at least acknowledge that something was sent.

    RM
     
  23. Kevin W.

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    The point of my posting was to see the bulletin page by page, i dont care what form it is electronically, just i feel that people that paid their dues, should be able to fully read the bulletin. Thanks.
     
  24. Tom McIntyre

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    I really do not understand what you mean. You appear to believe that not all the pages are there. I do not believe that is true. Can you cite an example of a missing page?

    On my computer with a touch screen, when I open an article, I can use my finger to scroll down the output to see each page. If it were not a touch screen, I would need to use the right hand scroll bar, but it would still be pretty easy.

    If you look at the page numbers when displaying the contents you will see that all numbers are represented. None of the pages differ in content from the hard copy publication.
     
  25. Kevin W.

    Kevin W. Registered User
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    Ok Tom, you cant read it the same way as you used to be, when i read it in 2016 you could go page by page, now its articles, not page by page, What Pat posted is what i see, please look at my reply and her posting and you should be able to understand. I am not trying to be difficult, i just dont understand why it cant be the way it was before, its one thing for me that takes away value as a paying customer. By page numbers i mean ,1,2,3,4,5,6..... , not, 24, 56, 83 , 101 as examples.
     
  26. Kevin W.

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  27. Jim DuBois

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    Well, to be technically correct if I am doing this correctly the electronic version does not include the front or back covers, the inside front and back covers, nor pages 473 through 476. That omits a letter from the editor, a message from the Executive director, and a message from our board chair, as well as a number of more minor things of interest. I recommend those all be included in future releases as they are quite germane for some of us......in the simplest explanation I can come up with is we should be working toward making this complete and easier to use.....and by the way one of the very nice things about the electronic version is out ability to see things up close. While I am losing resolution this is at 200% on a 36" wide screen. Pretty useful for finer inspection.

    watch blow up.jpg
     
  28. Kevin W.

    Kevin W. Registered User
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    I agree Jim, i like simplicity. And the idea to zoom in on a picture is a nice feature to have as well. Two words, complete and easier.
     
  29. PatH

    PatH National Program Chair
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    Hi, Jim,

    This doesn't solve the issue of a flip-book style format (which I don't remember having for the Bulletin, just the Mart) but to see the Bulletin covers, etc, you can use the links in the second paragraph below. I did a spot check and this is available on each of the issues. Hope this helps.

    Our sample article is from Research Activities & News: “Early 19th-Century Connecticut Clock Making and Freemasonry,” by Mary Jane Dapkus. The author has found documentary proof that several early 19th-century Connecticut clockmakers were Masons. Several examples of shelf clocks with Masonic decorations are provided.

    Members can also access the covers, contact information, hours of operation, messages, committees, and dates to remember.
     
  30. Kevin W.

    Kevin W. Registered User
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    Pat is there a reason why we cant have a flip style way to navigate, page by page through the online bulletin.
     
  31. PatH

    PatH National Program Chair
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    Good question, but I sure don't know the answer to that one. It may have to do with the way the files are created to send to the printer. When articles are sent for the author's review before publication, we get a file like the one posted. It may also have to do with indexing for the quick index search functionality where you can enter the keywords, then click through to the article from the returned list. Perhaps you could check with the editor to get a little background or insight, as well as to suggest the flip book or single pdf option?

    As a sidebar, because I am usually researching something when I use the online version, I prefer just looking at, or printing, one article rather than trying to flip through to the article I'm interested in.
     
  32. Kevin W.

    Kevin W. Registered User
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    Why would i have to check with the printer, i have little or no say in how it would be done, and not involved in the process of presenting it.
     
  33. PatH

    PatH National Program Chair
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    Hi - I think I was suggesting our NAWCC editor rather than the printer. Sorry for any confusion.
     
  34. Kevin W.

    Kevin W. Registered User
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    Thanks for clearing that up Pat.
     
  35. Jim DuBois

    Jim DuBois Registered User
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    Thanks Pat. But that does speak to an important issue. The information is available, but in a different method of access contrasting with the various bulletin segments. It requires one to actually read and understand the page, something that many folks do not normally do, including me. I want to read the Bulletin. I don't want to guess and research where the various links are to get me all the information of the Bulletin. Just for example I looked for a half hour for a way to find the cover and other page information, never noting it was right in front of me.....I would bet a fair amount of money I am not the only person to make that same mistake. I had read the comment, said, yeah that is what I want to do, never considering it was a hot link to what I wanted. And nothing on the page tells me bold statements are hot linked. I am far more familiar with hot links being a obvious color, or being underlined text, or flagged. So, we have another example of (me) user error, or RTFM, or some derivative of either or both. Yet, it still seems like we miss the boat on making or information EASILY understood and accessed. Be it the complete Bulletin in a single electronic document like the paper copy and or some more user friendly front end access, or page flips. When it irritates, confuses, and drives away users something is not quite right.

    I digress and waste your time! Thanks as always Pat. Your input is always appreciated and always on the money!
     
  36. John Arrowood

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    I suggest paying for the full membership and getting the printed copies of the Bulletin. There isn't much difference in the price. You can then read the articles in any fashion you prefer--front to back, back to front, upside down or sideways. The paper can be recycled, burned or used in the outhouse after having been read.
     
  37. Kevin W.

    Kevin W. Registered User
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    Have you seen what the Canadian dollar is at. I paid over a 100 already.
     
  38. Tom McIntyre

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    Kevin, I think it was over 10 years ago that the publications department deployed the flipping book interface. I must confess that the "cuteness" of the pages flipping and the simulation of the fold between pages with the gray gradient was really annoying to me. In any case it was work for the staff to format it with the tool and, of course, the tool which was proprietary had to be paid for.

    You are the first person I have heard from that liked it although I suppose Diana was at least moderately impressed by it since it was her choice to use it.

    The main web site is currently under review for redesign and I am sure the Bulletin issues could be saved as single PDF files which would be needed to serve them as HTML5 either with flipbook or some similar approach.

    They would still need to be stored as they currently are as well because that approach is needed to allow the content to be searched and the target articles displayed.

    A more important missing feature for researchers is full text searching of the bulletin. I believe that feature is more important than the book style reading ability but others may certainly disagree.
    --------------------------------
    Jim, You are right that it should be easy, but when designing a facility that will be used over and over by the same person, it is often worthwhile to keep the view clean and support features in a more subtle way. The training logic is that the experience of learning will be stickier if it is an aha moment rather than spelled out in detail. If your viewers use the facility only rarely, one errs on the side of obvious.

    We have done some of that here on this site so that features that may be very useful to regular users but not so important for newcomers are more subtle.

    The other factor we will be running into more and more is that younger users are familiar with phone idioms while older users are not and find things like "hamburger menus" confusing. When you view this page on a cell phone or smaller smart pad, the navigation menu disappears and is replaced by the hamburger.

    When we first launched this site we had a stationary "call to action" which is the new standard for providing the most obvious action based on what the person is viewing. Our users found it so confusing that we took it away. A stationary CTA stays at the same physical position on your screen independent of any scrolling action.
     
  39. rmarkowitz1_cee4a1

    rmarkowitz1_cee4a1 Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Nov 26, 2009
    4,492
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    Many auction houses provide an on-line catalog for both their upcoming and past auctions. Some may provide as a viewing option a "flipbook" version of their catalogs. I actually agree with TM that it is annoying and I find no advantage. I personally see no reason to have it.

    I also would love to have full text searching ability!

    RM
     
  40. Kevin W.

    Kevin W. Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Apr 11, 2002
    21,084
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    I work at the Veritas Tools machine shop.
    Nepean, Ontario, Canada
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    All i would like is just to be able to read the whole thing , cove r to cover,And have it easy and complete.
     

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