Rare Vacheron Constantin

Discussion in 'European & Other Pocket Watches' started by ddsk, Mar 10, 2010.

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  1. ddsk

    ddsk Registered User

    Mar 10, 2010
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    #1 ddsk, Mar 10, 2010
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2010
    First of all Hello to the forum from a new member.

    I have recently inherited a a rare
    Vacheron Constantin Gold Jeweled pocket watch -
    and was wondering if anyone on this forum is familiar with this model and has any information on it -
    i have managed to find 2 pics of a very simular watch on the internet but thats all the watch i have is identical in style but mine has a more ornate patterned dial and the jewels on the back are a slightly different pattern layout ,the movement is engraved vacheron constantin and has a serial no on movement and case that match,
    ..If someone feels that they can help date ,identify or just generaly help then i will take pics of the actual watch and mechanism for further identification
     

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  2. richiec

    richiec Registered User
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    We would definitely need a picture of the movement inside the case, not the dial, to positively identify it. It is a beautiful case though. We really cannot identify your watch from a picture of someone else's, there may be some small differences though they may look alike. If you can post some clear pictures of the movement and the markings inside the case it would be very helpful.
     
  3. ddsk

    ddsk Registered User

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    I have taken some pics hope they help ,this is first time taking pics of a watch.
     

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  4. MartyR

    MartyR Moderator
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    #4 MartyR, Mar 11, 2010
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2010
    Hi ddsk, and welcome to the site.

    You said this is a rare watch, which siggests that you have some specific information on it, or some provenance? If so, it will help if you share this with us :)

    I'm really looking forward to seeing some photos of the movement, and also of any case marks.

    ETA: Oh boy, I've just seen the photos - wonderful watch!!!!

    That absolutely has to be a solid gold case, and I suspect 18 carat. If so, there will be symbols on the case such as a tiny chevron or a woman's head, or something else - any maybe some initials. Can you hunt for those and let us know?

    And any provenance would still be very helpful.

    Now I'm going back to admire your watch :) Oh by the way, I'll guess at early 19th century for now ;-)
     
  5. ddsk

    ddsk Registered User

    Mar 10, 2010
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    the watch has recently come from geneva where the previous owner was a wealthy collector, it is an early example from one of the worlds oldest watch makers ,who still are one of the premier watch makers in geneva today and renound through out the world
    -> posts merged by system <-
    ot this moment in time i have only found the serial no on the case which matches the movement and under that it looks like a diamond shape mark which is not realy that clear but i will investigate further
     
  6. ddsk

    ddsk Registered User

    Mar 10, 2010
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    quick update: i have been searching the watch for markings and so far this is what i have found.......
    on case all i can see at present is the serial no 15167 a diamond shape above which is not very clear and no sign of markings inside it and above that there seems to be a solitairy C or G ..

    i will continue to search and update if i find anything else.


    just to say i have a recent general valuation from large swiss auction house that estimates in the thousands i do also have solicitors letter to confirm ownership. but i do not have any real information on the watch .
     
  7. ddsk

    ddsk Registered User

    Mar 10, 2010
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    I have also noticed the fretwork is made up of the word vacheron .. look carefully at the pic of the movement and you can clerly see it
     
  8. kurtnz

    kurtnz Registered User

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    Beautiful watch.
    Have you noticed how the ballance cock has an ornamental engraving of the word Vacheron?
    When I was in Switzerland last year I picked up a brochure about Vacheron & Constantin from the International Watch Museum in La Chaux de Fonds.
    It shows a very similar watch on page 11.
    I scanned it, as it maybe gives you some more information.
    You have a beautiful watch!!!
    I just noticed that the attachement failed. I will try again.
    -> posts merged by system <-
    Here it is
     

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  9. ddsk

    ddsk Registered User

    Mar 10, 2010
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    can anyone tell me the type of movement approx date of manufacture and if there is anything else that anyone knows about these pocket watches.

    it all looks in great condition for age little wear to case movement looks resonably clean and and original unfortunately i do not have the key for it so have no idea if it even works but i do know that its been in a drawer for years so would probably need a clean and service anyway
     
  10. MartyR

    MartyR Moderator
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    That alone, as they say, is worth the price of admission :D I believe it actually says "Vacheron & C", or is that an optical illusion?
     
  11. ddsk

    ddsk Registered User

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    no i thought the same but was not sure .
     
  12. kurtnz

    kurtnz Registered User

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    Here is a short history of Vacheron & Constantin.

    As you can see the company only started to call itsel Vacheron et Constantin after 1819.

    So your watch might have been mande around this time. By 1830 the produced high quality cylinder movements and I would think that this was the end of Verge watches for them.

    I would think that Vacheron et Constantin can give you detailed information and possibly can also tell you who bought the watch.



    Vacheron & Constantin

    In 1755, Jean-Marc Vacheron decided to open his own watch-making workshop and began to build pocket watches.

    Fifteen years after its foundation in 1770, Vacheron Constantin created its first 'complication' watches which included a chronograph, moon phase and triple calendar. In 1785 leadership of business was handed to his son Abraham Vacheron who directed the business successfully through the turbulent French Revolution.

    In 1819 the third generation, Jaques-Barthélemy, grandson of Jean-Marc Vacheron realised that he was not able to handle his business alone. In order to travel overseas and sell the company's products, he needed a partner. Consequently François Constantin became the associate of Vacheron and together they created the company name "Vacheron et Constantin".

    In 1839 Vacheron & Constantin hired Georges-Auguste Leschot. His job was to supervise their manufacturing operations. Leschot was an inventor and his creations turned out to be successful for the company. His inventions had a great impact on the watch making industry in general. He was the first person to standardize movements into Calibres

    Vacheron & Constantin sees itself today as the ‘oldest watch factory in the world'. They continue to manufacture timepieces that stand out for their quality and elegance, as first aspired to by Jean-Marc Vacheron in 1755.
     
  13. ddsk

    ddsk Registered User

    Mar 10, 2010
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    I have been searching the watch for hallmarks atc and these are all i have been able to find on the case , does anyone know anything about these marks ?
     

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  14. ddsk

    ddsk Registered User

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    kurtnz thanks for the useful information , i would go to vacheron on my next trip to geneva but i believe they keep all thier records under wraps and charge around $500 to $600 to give the information which i believe is a little too much - but that may be an option for the future .. the thing is i am not realy a collector of these things and may just sell to a collector who will appreciate it . i do know it is a very collectable item and probably worth a fair bit to the right person
     
  15. MartyR

    MartyR Moderator
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    The thing is, ddsk, you have a very fine watch which you say came from the collection of "a wealthy collector". Just as it stands it's obviously valuable. But if in addition it was originally bought by someone famous (and I guess its quality suggests it might have been) then $500-$600 could look like a huge bargain in terms of the value that might potentially be added to the watch. Of course it's a risk, because V&C might tell you it was bought by a retailer and they know no more than that.

    I presume that the "wealthy collector" isn't around to be asked?
     
  16. Tom McIntyre

    Tom McIntyre Technical Admin
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    This watch looks like a more modern production in an ancient style. I recall seeing some about 15 years ago in a Sotheby's sale that were listed as being made around 1890. There was a period of popularity for ancient styles at that time. One also finds even earlier style crystal case watches and form watches from the same period that are accurate reproductions of earlier production but in a more modern quality and reliability.

    It is certainly a beautiful watch.
     
  17. ddsk

    ddsk Registered User

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    thanks tom for the input, i understand what you are saying and its something to consider , my thoughts are that if that was the case then it would be required to have a modern hallmark . i may be wrong ,but i also know that the watch was authenticated recently by a top swiss auction house and that you only have to look at the inscriptions on the movement to see its all correct for the period
     
  18. beta21

    beta21 Registered User

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    Hello, nice watch, indeed. I believe it was destined for England when new, and since English hall marks wasn't mandatory on imported goods early on, (before the 1860-70's ?) this makes a reproduction watch less probable. Also the reproductons had more modern movements. The C-shaped mark in your case could be a part of a Genovese goldmark used between 1815 and 1881. The diamondshaped mark is the case maker's stamp. There should be a couple of letters within the stamp for the maker's initials

    Peter
     

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  19. ddsk

    ddsk Registered User

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    tom mcintyre .all that glitters is not new, WITH TOTALY SILLY COMMENTS LIKE THAT I WONDER IF I COME TO THE RIGHT PLACE ? EVEN WITH THE INFORMATION AND KNOWLEDGE I HAVE ALREADY .I KNOW ITS A GENUINE EARLY WATCH OF ITS TYPE. MAYBE JUST NO VACHERON EXPERTS HERE ?
     
  20. wjcoll

    wjcoll Registered User

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    My goodness, how rude.

    Me thinks this person may be dangling his watch in the hope of tantalising a potential market.
     
  21. rodstan

    rodstan Registered User

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    gentlemen,
    I have seen and worked on a great many watches of this period.It would appear to be an original V&C watch. It is a verge watch of c1780-1820 ish in original gilded condition.Reproduction watches that I have worked on are usually of later design i.e. cylinder or lever.
    The lack of hallmarking is due to the case design as these watches were decorated with jewels, enamelling, repousse etc. and could not be stamped until completion, which by common sense would destroy the exterior case.I believe there was an exemption granted for cases decorated in such manner.
    I have worked on similar styles engraved as made by Le Roy, Berthoud, Breguet etc.Now as to wether they were made by the the actual names is a matter of some research as these makers were copied in their time and a single name does not prove any thing as to which maker fabricated the watch. Vacheron and Constantin is a more definative name and more likely to be original to the watchmaker.
    It would well appear to be totally original and the signature engraved original at time of manufacture.The decoration was popular in Europe in the post Napoleonic period and is a form of jewelling and granulation favoured in "dress watches" at that time.The items that I have restored/ serviced have indeed made good prices in the world market when sold and were sold as presented by top auction houses.Their value is what the purchaser wishes to pay--due diligence!
    regards from a little old watchmaker
    Rod :)
    ps----if u can fret out a verge cock with vacheron and make it up to fit the watch you have my most esteemed respect :)
     
  22. ddsk

    ddsk Registered User

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    yes you are right in that respect , i am not a collector , and yes i will be selling it ,
     
  23. Douglas Romero

    Douglas Romero Registered User
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    I am always amused by Posters who ask for information about a particular watch and perhaps the reason was to ferret out information and create some excitement - gain some knowledge - maybe to confirm what they suspect or already know - only to sell the watch - will we see it on EBAY or at a big auction house ?? :rolleyes:
     
  24. ddsk

    ddsk Registered User

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    #24 ddsk, Mar 16, 2010
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2010
    well amused you maybe my friend but this is a site for collectors of such things and besides my interest in gaining knowledge about the watch (and why Not)....... i also thought that collectors would be interested in seeing a fine example of this type of watch --- so give and take as they say --- as for selling the item as i stated i am not a collector of pocket watches i much prefer old wristwatches and i do not think if you shop on ebay you will be seing such a fine item like this .
     
  25. ddsk

    ddsk Registered User

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    Thank you for the informative Information
     
  26. rodstan

    rodstan Registered User

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    Watchmaker, clockmaker of 35 years,hand engraver
    Adelaide South Australia
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    no problems :)
    I do huge amounts of work for collectors/dealers---one thing in common---
    everything will be sold, one day, it is just a matter of time.
    regards fom Oz land
    Rod
     

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