Please ID this Clock French Alarm Raingo Freres mantel clock help ID

Discussion in 'General Clock Discussions' started by GTNMUDY, Oct 29, 2018.

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  1. GTNMUDY

    GTNMUDY New Member

    Oct 29, 2018
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    My father purchased a Raingo Freres mantel clock about 40 yrs ago.

    He is now in a nursing home and we are looking for a fair value for this clock for possible selling to help pay the bills.

    I have searched the internet for a image of this clock but have not found it.

    Hoping someone on here can direct me in the right direction.

    Clock in working condition, good shape and is missing on small piece on the front.

    All numbers match (084) on the clock movement, pendulium and housing. Appears to be gold gilded but connont confirm.

    Base has some green tarnish on one foot so I believe it may be made from brass and is very heavy.

    20181029_084413.jpg 20181029_084427.jpg
     
  2. new2clocks

    new2clocks Registered User
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    Apr 25, 2005
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    Hello, and welcome to the board.

    We can not provide opinions of value in this area of the site. To do so, go to the main page of the message board and at the bottom, there is a section labeled "What is This Clock Worth?". In that section, you may request an opinion of value.

    Raingo Freres ("The Raingo Brothers") were a French firm that was in business from 1834 to 1860 (Mikrolisk.de). I am not sure if they were clock makers or clock retailers. Others should have more information. If your clock is marked, it most likely would be indicated on the back of the movement. Remove the bell and take clear photos of the back of the movement.

    Regards.
     
  3. zedric

    zedric Registered User
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    Aug 8, 2012
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    Raingo Freres were makers of generally very high quality clocks. They made a number of orrery clocks which are in museums around the world. In this case, Mikrolisk is out on the dates - Raingo, for example, got an honourable mention at the Paris expo of 1823, and it seems the firm was established in 1813. Judging from the look of your clock, I would estimate it is likely to be from the second quarter of the 19th century.

    It would be worthwhile to look for marks from the brass founder which you may find on the case - if the foundry is famous, this can increase the value of these clocks.
     
  4. jmclaugh

    jmclaugh Registered User

    Jun 1, 2006
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    It is a better quality case than many of these French figural mantel clocks and looks to have a silk suspension, dating wise I'm of the same opinion as Zedric.
     
  5. GTNMUDY

    GTNMUDY New Member

    Oct 29, 2018
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    Thank you for your responses.

    I have confirmed that it is a Raingo Freres clock. There is his brand mark under the bell.

    I am going to have it appraised but was wondering if there is a website that would show all his creations of mantel clocks.

    The story behind this clock according to my sister is a releative bought the clock in Germany at a clock shop. His wife then died and he remarried and his new wife did not want anything in the house from the first wife.

    My dad accuried the clock from him and did have it appraised in Indianoplis, In. about 40 years ago.

    The appraisor tried to buy the clock sever times starting a $1000 and kept going up, but dad didn't sell it.

    Your correct the finish on the clock is a satin shine and gold in color. The clock has never been polished so I know that it is not a exposed brass as it would tarnish and dull.

    I do remember several years ago the TV show Pawn Stars had a clock very close to this one in shape and color. They determined that it was gold coated using a deadly procedure with Mercury (I think) I could be wrong too.

    I have looked at appraisors in my area and really can't find one. Maybe a big Jewery shop?
     
  6. GTNMUDY

    GTNMUDY New Member

    Oct 29, 2018
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    Ok, so the clock mech was made by Paingo Freres an the housing by someone else?

    If so any idea where the marks would be. I really did not not see any when I took the pictures.
     
  7. JTD

    JTD Registered User

    Sep 27, 2005
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    You could ask an auction house that deals in good quality antiques for their estimate. You do not say whereabouts you are situated but you could also approach your local NAWCC chapter and ask them to recommend an appraiser in your area.

    Although quality still has its value, it is worth bearing in mind that clock prices are not what they once were and that an appraisal which was obtained 40 years ago was then, not now.

    Personally, I would not go to a jewelery store for an appraisal.

    JTD
     
  8. new2clocks

    new2clocks Registered User
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    Apr 25, 2005
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    If the appraiser provided an appraisal and then offered to purchase the clock, then the appraiser was not ethical. Any time this happens, a seller should walk away, as your father did. If the appraiser stated up front that he would not provide an appraisal but would like to purchase the clock, then that is ok.

    The price he provided 40 years ago was probably the auction value. Most likely, if the clock was sold to him at the price he offered, he would then offer it at retail for a much higher asking price. Unless you are in the business of selling antique clocks, you should probably focus on an auction value. Sometimes, a high value clock will have auction and retail values that are much closer in price.

    Regards.
     
  9. new2clocks

    new2clocks Registered User
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    I agree with JTD and would add that this clock might require an auction house (should you put it up for auction) that is global rather than local or focused in one country in order to sell at its highest value. In my observations, French clocks, even of high value, tend to be more desirable in Europe than in the U.S. If a Christies or Bonhams would be willing to accept this clock for assignment, then you can be reasonably assured that the value of the clock is high.

    It would be worth your time to contact both of the above auctioneers. If neither of these houses are interested, then let us know. There are a few U.S. auction houses that tend to bring better values for high end French clocks (as opposed to other U.S. auction houses).

    Regards.
     
  10. zedric

    zedric Registered User
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    Aug 8, 2012
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    By the 19th century, who made a clock is a bit of a difficult question to answer. The clock would have been made from components bought in from a variety of sources - the rough movement would have been bought from one supplier, the hands, springs etc from others, the case would most likely have been ordered from a specialist maker and so on. Then the rough movement would have been completed with the various parts, and put into the case. Often, the finished product would have then been sold through a retailer, who would have put their name on the clock. For example, you see clocks with the movement marked Raingo Freres with a variety of retailers on the front, Dixon et Fils being one that comes to mind.

    With your French clock, there are two elements that will set the price. First is the quality of the case, the completeness of the gilding, and whether the casting and gilding were done by a famous firm. Secondly the name on the movement or dial, and whether the clock runs - the quality of the French movements at this date were all excellent, but known makers tend to attract more interest from buyers.

    Try looking for a signature or a name in the casting of the case, it may be hidden underneath the case or at the back. If there isn't one, it doesn't matter, but if there is then sometimes the brass founder is also famous, and this can add to the value.
     
  11. zedric

    zedric Registered User
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    #11 zedric, Oct 30, 2018
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2018
    At the date of this clock, often clocks were made to order for customers, although that was starting to change with mass manufacture coming in. I'm not aware of any website set up for any particular french maker, as the variety of clocks was limited by the requests of the customer and the amount of money they were prepared to spend.

    Out of interest, the photo of the movement is blurry, but it appears that there may be two hammers (and presumably two bells?) - is that right, or is the second blob in the picture something else. If there are two hammers/bells, that would make it a quarter striking. (petite sonnerie or grande sonnerie) movement, which would add fractionally to the price.
     
  12. gmorse

    gmorse Registered User
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    Jan 7, 2011
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    Hi GTNMUDY,

    It's quite likely that they were right about this. Mercury gilding was, (and still is in my opinion), the best process and produces the most attractive and durable gilt finishes. It involves mixing gold with mercury to form an amalgam paste which is applied to the object and then heated to drive off the mercury as vapour, (this is the dangerous bit). Although it's largely been superseded by other, safer processes involving electrolysis, (some of which do involve cyanide compounds amongst other unpleasant substances), there are still a few people who do it, using complex filtration and absorption equipment to ensure safe capturing of the mercury fumes.

    By the way, does the right arm of the left-hand lady in the first picture move? It looks as though it might.

    Regards,

    Graham
     

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