R. Schnekenburger bim bam question

Copperdragon3

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I recently purchased a Schnekenburger wall clock that has a two hammer strike. I believe this is called a bim bam movement? The clock isn't currently running, but when I advance the hands it double strikes every quarter; one double at the first quarter, two at the half, three at the three quarters and on the hour it double strikes the hour. Is this right? I thought the hours were supposed to be struck on a single hammer? Perhaps something is misaligned?
 

wow

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I think all is right. Most bim bam movements only strike on the hour and the half hour. Yours is 1/4 strike. I like that better. Actually I think it is rather rare.
 

rgmt79

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It could be a Grande Sonnerie which strikes the quarters on one gong/bell and the hour on another, for example at quarter past 2 it would strike once on the qtr gong/bell and 2 on the hour gong/bell, on the half past 2 it would strike 2 on the qtr and 2 on the hour, at 2:45 it would strike 3 and 2 and at 3:00 it would strike 4 and 2 (4th qtr of 2nd hour = 3:00), then at 3:15 it would strike 1 and 3 and so on....sometimes referred to as a blind man's clock because you can tell the time to the nearest 15 mins without the need to look at the clock.

Quite rare and usually from France/Austria/Germany late 18th/ early 19th c. and usually with silk suspension. This is an Austrian clock I serviced 2 years ago:
Viennese style Grande Sonnerie | NAWCC Forums

I can tell you for sure if you can post a photo of the movement from both front and back.

Richard
 
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Copperdragon3

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It definitely only bim bams on every quarter and bim bams the hours. I've gone around the dial a few times and it's always the same.

PXL_20201016_162716977.jpg PXL_20201016_162558546.jpg
 

jmclaugh

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When you say double strikes the hour do you mean the two hammers strike simultaneously or as they do at quarter past the hour or something else?

Afaik bim bam or ting tang is two bells/gongs etc which have a lower and higher note.
 
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Copperdragon3

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The two hammers strike just as they do the quarters, except the bim bam goes for the hours; six o'clock would strike bim bam six times. And yes, they are two different tones, one higher than the other.
 

wow

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The two hammers strike just as they do the quarters, except the bim bam goes for the hours; six o'clock would strike bim bam six times. And yes, they are two different tones, one higher than the other.
Can you make a video of it striking and post it here?
 

Copperdragon3

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I've tried to attach a video several times and it keeps saying the file is too large; anyone know how to post a video:???:
 

Salsagev

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I've tried to attach a video several times and it keeps saying the file is too large; anyone know how to post a video:???:
You need to use a link of the video from YouTube or Vimeo.
 

Salsagev

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Yes. Or Just a google account would work.
 

Copperdragon3

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The quarters are the same sequence; one bim bam at 15 past, two at the half, three at the three quarters and the hour is counted on bim bams.
 

Salsagev

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Two train grand sonnerie (blind mans).
 

Copperdragon3

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Doesn't a grand sonnerie strike the hour on the quarters as well as the bim bam? Mine only strikes the hour on the hour using the bim bam to count the hour. The quarters are struck using only bim bams.
 

Salsagev

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Yes. Maybe a petite sonnerie then.
 

rgmt79

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I'm only familiar with a 3 train Grande Sonnerie movement, which strikes the qtr and hour at each qtr. This 'bim bam' movement seems strange to me, in your video the 3 o'clock bim bam is the same as the 3rd qtr bim bam...very confusing. I'm wondering if something is out of sequence here. Can you make a video with a view on the front showing the mechanism moving as it goes through the complete 1hour sequence?

Richard
 

Copperdragon3

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Keep in mind that at every quarter, as well as the hour, the hammers strike a bim bam; one bim bam at first qtr., two bim bams at half past, three bim bams at three quarters and seven bim bams on the hour.
 

wow

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Thanks for the video. It is a bim bam that strikes on the 1/4 hours. Grande Sonneries have a totally different sequence and strike on gongs rather than rods. Normally the rods are tuned to a minor third interval with the highest note struck first each time.
 

Copperdragon3

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Mine has two coils, not rods. But does it make sense that the hour strike is still a bim bam sequence counting the hour and not a single hammer striking the hour? One, two and three o'clock sound the same as the first quarter, half past and three quarters. I would have assumed the hours would strike only one hammer.
 

rgmt79

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Thanks for the video, but it's not clear what is happening because the hands are obscuring some of the action. Clearly the same rack is used to strike the 3 qtr's and the hour (In a petit or grande sonnerie, there are two racks so that the qtr's and hour can act together). This movement only strikes qtr's on the 1st, 2nd and 3rd qtr and strikes the hour only on the hour and I think only one hammer and it's corresponding coil give a lighter sound for the 3 qtr's and the other hammer and corresponding coil a stronger sound on the hour.

It may be easier to see what is happening if you can take a still photo from the front (as in photo 2) but without the hands or if your not happy removing the hands then put them in the 7:40 position where they are not obscuring anything important.

Richard
 
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D.th.munroe

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Hi
I've worked on a few like this. it's been a while but, there should be a cam behind the strike snail that moves this lever (circled in the picture) right before the hour, a pin on the inside of the plate should lift that one hammer out of the way to strike the hour on just one hammer.
Dan
Edit: I should say quarter snail and it could just be a pin not a cam.
 
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Copperdragon3

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Sorry for the delay, but I was on the road most of the day; I actually dropped off the clockworks to a friend of mine who has been fixing clocks since 1964. He found the reason why it wasn't running - two pivot areas were so crusted with rust and gunk that the corresponding gears were absolutely frozen. There was no other area with rust, and the bushings were all good so we're stumped as to how only these two pivots got to be so rusty! Even the clock case is in very good original condition.
 

D.th.munroe

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It could be something bent or maybe a pin broke off/fell out.
I didn't see that lever move at all during the video so I would look behind the snails and see what the other end of that lever should or could act on.
 

Vernon

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Interesting clock, what determines the rack drop for the quarters?
 

Copperdragon3

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Dan, so if I'm understanding you correctly just before the hour that lever you circled should lift, and a pin somewhere connected with that lever should lift one hammer and allow only the remaining hammer to strike the hour. Looking at the video, the only time that lever seems to move slightly upward is just past the hour on the way to the first quarter, but drop back quickly.
 

D.th.munroe

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Yes it should do that at the hour. can you what is lifting the lever at that point?
It could be as simple as the motion wheels are just not aligned properly. It might have aligning dots on the wheels.

Vernon
there's a 4 step snail usually mounted to the star cam or where the star cam is behind the hour snail.
 

Copperdragon3

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Unfortunately the movement is at my friend's house getting cleaned. When I get it back I'll look but I think you are correct - something wants to lift that lever after the hour, so I'm also thinking it's misaligned.
 

rgmt79

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Clearly the only way forward is to dismantle the movement and clean everything before reassemble and oil where appropriate. This is a very interesting and (for me unusual) movement and look forward to seeing it function correctly in all it's glory.

Richard
 

Copperdragon3

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That's the plan; disassemble, clean, repair (if needed) and oil. I'm starting to think this is a 3/4 bim bam.
 
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