Questions re Atkins, Porter & Co. OG Clock.

woodnbrass

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Some years back I put this clock in storage with others, and have only now closely inspected it. it is a 26 inch high OG clock, and besides having had its label varnished, and with minor veneer issues, some features appear odd to me, and I need some clarification prior to mounting a rescue attempt:-

(1) The round painted zinc dial (with chapter swelling) appears to have been cut from a period rectangular dial, although the top glass decoration (appears original) reveals only the round dial when door is closed - is this dial correct, or has a rectangular dial been cut down later to fit?

(2) The door hinges are mounted on timber blocks, with the door frame cut away to clear, though all looks OK when door is closed - doesn't appear to be correct to me?

(3) Any other noticeable problems, such as the un-marked movement being incorrect?

I have collected American clocks in recent years as a retirement hobby, and as pre-1860 examples are rarely found in Australia, I have always relied on searching this wonderful forum for information (I have recently signed up).

Had some learner problems re posting procedures, so trust this gets through OK

Top Glass.JPG Rear of Dial.JPG Dial.JPG Door Hinge.JPG Movement Front.JPG Movement Rear.JPG Label.JPG
 

Jim DuBois

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I think the dial is likely correct but perhaps has an overpaint at some time. I have several of these period ogees with similar dial treatments. It was very popular with Jeromes etc. The blocks on the hinges are most likely original, I worked on a clock this week done up the same way. And yes, the movement looks correct too. I like the brass dial version too.

0623shgilb_det1.jpg 69913371_10220057556658245_4989402665256484864_n.jpg
 

woodnbrass

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I think the dial is likely correct but perhaps has an overpaint at some time. I have several of these period ogees with similar dial treatments. It was very popular with Jeromes etc. The blocks on the hinges are most likely original, I worked on a clock this week done up the same way. And yes, the movement looks correct too. I like the brass dial version too.

View attachment 659335 View attachment 659336
Thanks Jim, I am relieved that my clock has not been overly botched, and I can proceed with putting it together. That brass dial clock is nice, love the brass dial, and the very clean label; is that the original mirror with paper backing?
 

Jim DuBois

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That one pictured is not an original backing or original retention IMO. Here is an original mirror with the original paper backing. You will notice it is retained by glasier putty. And here is an originally painted tablet also retained with putty.

20210617_191552.jpg 20210617_191240.jpg
 

woodnbrass

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That one pictured is not an original backing or original retention IMO. Here is an original mirror with the original paper backing. You will notice it is retained by glasier putty. And here is an originally painted tablet also retained with putty.

View attachment 659432 View attachment 659433
I suppose the paper backing was not affected by the putty, and did its job protecting the mirror backing. Amazing that the backing survives today - Is it more like thin cardboard, or flimsy paper? My clock has a replacement mirror, bare backed and poorly secured. The mirror is old, maybe early 20th century, and will always be a replacement mirror, so I intend to back it with aged thin cardboard from an antique picture frame, and retain it with old timber strips, much like as if it had been replaced by a caring owner c1900. I appreciate your pics of original details..
 

Jerome collector

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I agree with most of what Jim said, however I have concerns about the movement, which appears to be a type 1.241 made by Seth Thomas (as defined in Snowden Taylor's 1982 NAWCC Bulletin article). Not only are Atkins, Porter & Co. not listed as a user of the Seth Thomas movement, but they made their own movements. Atkins & Porter and Atkins, Porter & Co. movements are quite different from ones made by Thomas. One noticeable difference is that the latter has a T-shaped front plate and an I-shaped back plate, whereas the former used I-shaped plates for both front and back.
Mike
 

rmarkowitz1_cee4a1

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I agree with most of what Jim said, however I have concerns about the movement, which appears to be a type 1.241 made by Seth Thomas (as defined in Snowden Taylor's 1982 NAWCC Bulletin article). Not only are Atkins, Porter & Co. not listed as a user of the Seth Thomas movement, but they made their own movements. Atkins & Porter and Atkins, Porter & Co. movements are quite different from ones made by Thomas. One noticeable difference is that the latter has a T-shaped front plate and an I-shaped back plate, whereas the former used I-shaped plates for both front and back.
Mike
If I recall correctly, they were also 1/2 hour strike, rather unusual.

See, "The Clocks of Irenus Atkins" by Gregory and King. There's a nice section on Atkins and Porter clocks (pages 28-33). Besides 1/2 hour strike, the count wheel was in the center of the inner back plate

RM
 
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woodnbrass

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If I recall correctly, they were also 1/2 hour strike, rather unusual.

See, "The Clocks of Irenus Atkins" by Gregory and King. There's a nice section on Atkins and Porter clocks (pages 28-33). Besides 1/2 hour strike, the count wheel was in the center of the inner back plate

RM
Thank you RM for your observation re movement, which due to the scarcity of these early clocks down here I will need to live with. Thank you also for the publication references which I will follow up. One feature (pic attached) of my case may confirm which movement it should have, and that is the left (strike-side) rail has a wooden roller for the strike weight cord, no roller is fitted to the right (time-side) rail, presumably this feature is consistent with the Atkins & Porter movement.

Case Detail.JPG
 

Steven Thornberry

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Mike is correct about the roller. It prevented the cable from fouling the fly. It would serve no purpose on the time side.
 

Jim DuBois

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Near identical clocks of this period may have a number of different labels, here is an example of a virtually identical clock case/dial/dial surround/tablet. etc. Boardman & Wells label, movement quite similar to the one that started this thread.

The second clock is a typical Jeromes' et al with a Jerome movement. Everything pretty much interchangeable between the two cases. It is difficult to pin a specific movement to a specific case with any degree of certainty. All I am suggesting is there was a great deal of mixing and matching going on in the business.

From Ken Roberts on Terry and Ives.
By this time the number of actual clockmakers in Bristol, who could make any part
of a movement and assemble this into a working mechanism, was limited to a few who marketed
clocks having labels stating "manufactured by." Joseph Ives, Chauncey Ives, Joseph Shaylor
Ives, Charles Kirk, Chauncey Pomeroy, Chauncey Boardman, Elisha Manross, Merrit Atkins,
Irenus Atkins, Noble Jerome, Hiram Camp, Samuel Terry and his sons , Ephraim Downs, and
Anson Atwood about complete the list.

20210619_092440 (2).jpg 20210619_091306.jpg 20210619_091107.jpg 20210619_093204.jpg 20210619_093235 (2).jpg 20210619_093210.jpg
 

woodnbrass

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Well, I've certainly received wonderful constructive responses, and I thank you all for steering me in the right direction, as well as for the valuable information regarding OG clocks. At the risk of prolonging this thread further than desired, I close with a pic of the underside of the seat board, which shows it has had additions to the rear (when movement was changed?). The seat board looks like mahogany, whilst the additions appear to be pine.

Underside of Seat Board.JPG
 

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