Questions on fixing an abnormal swiss watch movement

[NUSAWC]

In my ongoing efforts to learn watch repair, I have come upon a swiss movement that is rather abnormal, at least to the eye of someone who has been working with mostly american watches. As seen in the images, it is an uncompensated balance with no pallet fork and an abnormal looking escapement wheel. The balance staff is also wider at the bottom with a cut in slit of sorts.I was told by a watchmaker that watches like this are very difficult to repair and even more difficult to maintain long term, though our time was cut short before I got as to why. I’m guessing that it has magnets in the balance wheel (the 3 studs) which get regulated by the other 3 studs on the movement to regulate the watch, though I could be completely off there. On to repairing it, when everything was assembled, the watch would run for a few seconds when shaken, but would then stop. Its very dirty and I’m not sure how to go about cleaning a watch that seems this old and foreign to me. My questions are: how does this thing even work with no pallet fork, the abnormal escape wheel, etc.? How can I place the balance wheel and hairspring to ensure its in beat? Why are these difficult to repair? The hairspring is abnormally shaped at the end, is this a kink or is it just another abnormality with this kind of watch? And finally, are there any resources I can use to learn more about this, and how can I attempt to fix this thing up? I apologize for the number of questions, but I’m extremely curious about this watch. Please let me know if more pictures or anything are needed!

 

[NUSAWC]

Do a search of this site for Cylinder Escapement.
You'll be best to farm this out to a very well experienced watchmaker unless you are lucky in that the watch maybe didn't run much. Otherwise there may be problems such as the wear you can see in this image. Then there is the fact that your top pivot doesn't look so good. Could you try checking the length of both top and bottom pivots and compare? Then again, though your photos could be clearer, the whole staff probably needs work.
https://live.staticflickr.com/3885/33019155712_a050244c57_h.jpg

The only local, experienced watchmaker I know of was the one that informed me of the nightmare of these things, and I doubt he would be willing to fix it without a sharp fee. Are cylinder escapements generally movements that I, as a novice, should just stay away from? Is it even possible for me to fix this without a plethora of specialized tools and knowledge, or could I try to at least get it running? Here are more pictures of the staff, I’m not sure how to measure/compare it as I’m worried about breaking things or being inaccurate, and don’t know what I'm looking for. Beyond that, I found some people talking about watchmakers who made these and info about them on the few threads I could find… what sources can I use to try to learn more about this things history? I included a picture of the case with the name of the maker on it, though I can’t fully make out the name. Thanks for the info!

 

[NUSAWC]

Read this thread?
A clock sized platform(cylinder)

Yes your staff pivots are both there but they could do with some work.It may be shadows and light tricks but the bottom pivot looks to be riveted or mushroomed at the end and the top pivot may have a groove?

Was only looking in watch threads, thanks for the link! I believe it was light tricks, I’ll try to get a clearer picture but that is proving a bit difficult with my current limitations. If my pivots are most likely causing the issues, how can I confirm it, and moreover, how can I replace them? Would it be balance pivots, and if so where are they all on a movement like this? These may be very obvious questions but for this kind of movement I’m trying to be as cautious as I can. Thanks!

 

[NUSAWC]

In the above. Did you notice Graham's posts?
I can assure you that people who know more about cylinders will be along soon.

The inscription on the case seems to me to say;
Cylinder
Four jewels.

I believe its french, four rubies, which I think is a common thing to be put on the watches as I’ve found a few of them online. From what I can find, the escapement mechanism was improved by the French through the use of hardened steel parts, resulting in less wear and damage, and were produced during the mid 19th century until the early 20th century.
I read some of the posts, unfortunately I don’t know how much of it applies to this, and some of the language and things named (like endshake) are stuff I’ve never really heard of beyond a mention. The struggles of somewhat self teaching this is that I miss out on stuff until I ask, look it up, or chance upon it. If there is something specific I should look into, please let me know as I’m fairly confused here. This entire movement is very out of my comfort zone as its just very different from what I’ve dealt with before. Thanks for all the great info though! Hopefully I can figure it out and at least get it running, it doesn’t need to be accurate yet. Small steps. Thanks again!

 

[Brunod]

Yes it is written "Quatre rubis", four jewels. (I'm native french speaking).
Cylinder are very common here prior to the anchor escapement.
I'm quite at ease with them, the most important thing for a beginner is NOT to move the "chariot" wich is hold on the back side by a screw.
In fact, all the balance bridge and balance wheel are hold on a small plate screwed on the main plate. But this part can be moved to set the escapement regulation, allowing the depth of the escape wheel into the cylinder. So moving this part is really difficult to set it back if one doesn't know what to do.
Most common trouble are broken "tampons", which is the part that is the pivot.
The easiest way to solve is to replace the whole cylinder, but the alternate real solution is to replace the tampon only, which needs specific tools.

Here is a picture of the center part "écorce" and the two "tampons", with broken pivots on the picture.

And No, there is absolutly no magnetic power used in these watches.

 

[Brunod]

Some more tips.
1 how to set the neutral point by moving the end attach of the hairspring
2 the 3 parts of the cylinder : bottom and top tampons, écorce in the middel.
3 extract of a french encyclopedia showing each step of the escapement phase, and the shape of the lips of the cylinder.

And here a full repair session (use translator, it's written in Dutch) : Zak horloge om te leren restaureren
with the pict I was looking for : the whole part cock,balance wheel and the chariot (above) taken out of the main plate.

 

[gmorse]

Hi NUSAWC,

This entire movement is very out of my comfort zone as its just very different from what I've dealt with before.

That's the joy of this obsession, it never stops providing challenges! In this instance, I think you would be better off to leave this one aside for the moment until you've had the chance to absorb the information you already have access to, and have acquired the skills and tools you need to tackle this type of work.

And finally, are there any resources I can use to learn more about this, and how can I attempt to fix this thing up?

I think you should try and acquire some books, (probably said before in various threads); in this instance, 'Clock and Watch Escapements' by WJ Gazeley covers cylinder repairs. (By the way, what books do you have?). However, Brunod and roughbarked have posted some comprehensive images and a video of how these escapements work, and these will repay the time spent in fully understanding what you have. There are resources here and elsewhere, but this work can't be learnt in an evening watching YouTube, it requires application and practice.

On nomenclature, 'endshake' is the amount of free movement or slop of an arbor in an axial direction, and 'sideshake' is the slop in a radial direction; the names describe the effect quite well. If either is too great, it can rob power from an escapement and in extreme cases, stop it altogether. Similarly, too little is also bad.

Regards,

Graham

 

[Brunod]

One last picture. As seen, this escapement is working with steel escape wheel gliding on steel cylinder. But there have been rubies cylinder escapement for a few uncommon watches like some from Breguet.
The cylinder part was made of ruby while the escape wheel was steel.
Here is one.

 

[NUSAWC]

Hi NUSAWC,


That's the joy of this obsession, it never stops providing challenges! In this instance, I think you would be better off to leave this one aside for the moment until you've had the chance to absorb the information you already have access to, and have acquired the skills and tools you need to tackle this type of work.



I think you should try and acquire some books, (probably said before in various threads); in this instance, 'Clock and Watch Escapements' by WJ Gazeley covers cylinder repairs. (By the way, what books do you have?). However, Brunod and roughbarked have posted some comprehensive images and a video of how these escapements work, and these will repay the time spent in fully understanding what you have. There are resources here and elsewhere, but this work can't be learnt in an evening watching YouTube, it requires application and practice.

On nomenclature, 'endshake' is the amount of free movement or slop of an arbor in an axial direction, and 'sideshake' is the slop in a radial direction; the names describe the effect quite well. If either is too great, it can rob power from an escapement and in extreme cases, stop it altogether. Similarly, too little is also bad.

Regards,

Graham

I only have a few books given to me by a watchmaker, mainly for identification and valuation. I’ll attach images of them here. I’ve been meaning to get more, but for me its a question of books vs tools, parts, and watches due to my budget, so I’ve been trying to make do with online resources.

As for the repairing side of things, I just do not know what the damage is, so I’m not sure where to even begin. The “tampons” that Brunod mentioned as a common issue seem to be fine, I don’t see much wear on anything of the balance, the watch without the balance in works well if given power, and the idea of plates and the other headaches mentioned which could lead to the watch not being able to be fixed without specialized tools and knowledge is intimidating. I’m going to watch the videos sent and try to learn more about these things. As for the nomenclature, thanks for the info. New knowledge on these is always excellent, especially when its basic stuff that should help my understanding a lot.

Thanks again!

 

[NUSAWC]

Yes it is written "Quatre rubis", four jewels. (I'm native french speaking).
Cylinder are very common here prior to the anchor escapement.
I'm quite at ease with them, the most important thing for a beginner is NOT to move the "chariot" wich is hold on the back side by a screw.
In fact, all the balance bridge and balance wheel are hold on a small plate screwed on the main plate. But this part can be moved to set the escapement regulation, allowing the depth of the escape wheel into the cylinder. So moving this part is really difficult to set it back if one doesn't know what to do.
Most common trouble are broken "tampons", which is the part that is the pivot.
The easiest way to solve is to replace the whole cylinder, but the alternate real solution is to replace the tampon only, which needs specific tools.

Here is a picture of the center part "écorce" and the two "tampons", with broken pivots on the picture.
View attachment 747500
And No, there is absolutly no magnetic power used in these watches.

Thanks for all this info!
So, from what I can see, the “tampons” on mine seem to be fine, though I could be completely wrong on that. The gear train runs well without the balance in, so I don’t think the problem lies there. What could be causing the issue here? Is it simply the “tampons” are damaged and I just don’t know it? Is it the hairsprings shape? Or might I just need to set it in neutral and reassemble and it might give us more information about the problem?

Thanks for all the info! I’ll be sure to go all the way through it!

 

[Skutt50]

Its very dirty and I’m not sure how to go about cleaning a watch that seems this old and foreign to me.

There is no meaning in trying to fix it before you have gven it a good cleaning and oiling. Even if the gear train moves, there may be power losses along the way. Also you need to inspect the mainspring. Even a broken mainspring can in some situations turn the gear train if the balance is removed.

Cylinder movements are both easy and difficult to fix. Since your balance seems to be OK the rest of the gear train usually does not provide any special problems. (A busted or misaligned cylinder would be more tricky to fix.)

Brunold in posting #9 of this thread, gave detailed instructions on how to get the escapement in beat.

 

[gmorse]

Hi Bronod,

But there have been rubies cylinder escapement for a few uncommon watches like some from Breguet.

That's a nice image of an English ruby cylinder, Breguet's design is rather different, he placed the cylinder below the bottom pivot. This is an excellent closeup of one from TheNakedWatchmaker.com.

Regards,

Graham

 

[gmorse]

Hi NUSAWC,

Brunold in posting #9 of this thread, gave detailed instructions on how to get the escapement in beat.

Cylinder escapements can be quite fussy about being close to in beat; if they're only a little way off they can refuse to run at all.

I’ve been meaning to get more, but for me its a question of books vs tools, parts, and watches due to my budget, so I’ve been trying to make do with online resources.

The knowledge should come first, or the tools, parts and watches are worth nothing to you. There are good and bad books, just as there are good and bad online videos, the problem is the same with both, of finding the good and discarding the bad.

Regards,

Graham

 

[Brunod]

Thanks for all this info!
... What could be causing the issue here? ...Is it the hairsprings shape? Or might I just need to set it in neutral and reassemble and it might give us more information about the problem?
Thanks for all the info! I’ll be sure to go all the way through it!

There is a lot of things to check. Hairspring is correct if it doesn't touch anything at any moment. Broken rubies, dirty rubies, checking that without escape wheel, the hairspring collet puts the opening of the cylinder right toward the axe of the escape wheel (so holding it with tweezers makes a 90° angle with the line balance-escape wheel centers, see first drawing above), cheking the stop pin from the balance is right at the opposite of the stop pin from the cock at rest, and most difficult, if someone played with the "chariot", check the position of each triangle of the escape wheel inside the cylinder that should enter right into the middle of it. No to mention the other things I forget...

 

[NUSAWC]

There is a lot of things to check. Hairspring is correct if it doesn't touch anything at any moment. Broken rubies, dirty rubies, checking that without escape wheel, the hairspring collet puts the opening of the cylinder right toward the axe of the escape wheel (so holding it with tweezers makes a 90° angle with the line balance-escape wheel centers, see first drawing above), cheking the stop pin from the balance is right at the opposite of the stop pin from the cock at rest, and most difficult, if someone played with the "chariot", check the position of each triangle of the escape wheel inside the cylinder that should enter right into the middle of it. No to mention the other things I forget...

Ill start top to bottom with as many pictures as I can. First, the rubies look fine crack wise, but I’ll include pictures of each just in case my assessment is off, which is a possibility. I cannot get the escapement wheel off, as its bridge wont budge at all, and I don’t want to force it. I tried to check the cylinder and balance wheel triangles, and all of it seemed to be fine, though I’m not entirely sure.
Please let me know of anything else I can use to figure this out! Thanks!

 

[NUSAWC]

Hi NUSAWC,


Cylinder escapements can be quite fussy about being close to in beat; if they're only a little way off they can refuse to run at all.



The knowledge should come first, or the tools, parts and watches are worth nothing to you. There are good and bad books, just as there are good and bad online videos, the problem is the same with both, of finding the good and discarding the bad.

Regards,

Graham

Alright, so I’ll have to be extra careful with it then. And, for the knowledge, I’ll look into getting more books. The lack of knowledge seems to be very much hindering my understanding. What are some basic ones to start with, or are they the ones you have mentioned in this thread and prior? Thanks!

 

[gmorse]

Hi NUSAWC,

I think a good place to start for you is the Chicago School of Watchmaking course book, which should be available online for free if you search. It covers the basic working principles, nomenclature of parts and methods of repair and will equip you with sound knowledge as you work through it. When you progress further, the Antique Watch Restoration volumes by Archie B. Perkins are very comprehensive, but they're still pretty expensive.

Regards,

Graham

 

[Bila]

Hairspring is correct if it doesn't touch anything at any moment.

That hairspring is not at all correct, it needs to be adjusted/manipulated to correct form

 

[Brunod]

Refering to dirt or broken jewel, at this step according you said the wheel train was fine, I was considering the 4 ones from the balance : 2 uppers and 2 from under.
In this place, the power is the weakest and just any little something would be enough to stop the watch.
For the plate side, you have to unscrew this jewel from the "chariot" to clean the cap jewel and the hole jewel.
Do not touch the 2 other screws !
I let you search for the other (cock) side.

 

[Brunod]

That hairspring is not at all correct, it needs to be adjusted/manipulated to correct form

Beware of the shadow and picture from aside. If it doesn't touch itself, as beginner, it's better not to touch/destroy it right now.

 

[Skutt50]

First, the rubies look fine crack wise,

It is sometimes hard to tell. The jewel in the first picture looks a bit suspicious to mee. It could be dirt, it could be a crack. You have to remove the cock and clean the jewel before you can determine its status.

I cannot get the escapement wheel off,

If you look from the side there should be a gap between the cock and the mainplate where a small screwdriver would fit. You should be able to lift the cock by inseting a screwdriver in the opening and give it some gentle wiggle.

The

 

[Brunod]

...
If you look from the side there should be a gap between the cock and the mainplate where a small screwdriver would fit. You should be able to lift the cock by inseting a screwdriver in the opening and give it some gentle wiggle.
The

 

[Bila]

as beginner, it's better not to touch/destroy it right now.

So, best to tell the OP this first up, this way they are under no illusions.

 

[Brunod]

So, best to tell the OP this first up, this way they are under no illusions.

Too late : first post showed already the hairspring on the desk.

 

[Chris Radek]

The three divots on the pillar plate correspond to a mark on the edge of the balance wheel (not the banking pin) and lining up the mark with the center divot will put the escapement in beat.

I agree with others who have said this watch is utterly normal, it's just very different from American watches. If you can handle American watches, you can handle this, but there are important differences, in the barrel, in the center wheel, and especially the escapement.

 

[NUSAWC]

It is sometimes hard to tell. The jewel in the first picture looks a bit suspicious to mee. It could be dirt, it could be a crack. You have to remove the cock and clean the jewel before you can determine its status.



If you look from the side there should be a gap between the cock and the mainplate where a small screwdriver would fit. You should be able to lift the cock by inseting a screwdriver in the opening and give it some gentle wiggle.

The

Thank you! I got it off and figured everything out. Thanks!

 

[NUSAWC]

There is a lot of things to check. Hairspring is correct if it doesn't touch anything at any moment. Broken rubies, dirty rubies, checking that without escape wheel, the hairspring collet puts the opening of the cylinder right toward the axe of the escape wheel (so holding it with tweezers makes a 90° angle with the line balance-escape wheel centers, see first drawing above), cheking the stop pin from the balance is right at the opposite of the stop pin from the cock at rest, and most difficult, if someone played with the "chariot", check the position of each triangle of the escape wheel inside the cylinder that should enter right into the middle of it. No to mention the other things I forget...

So, I inspected the hairspring further, and after taking it out of the container I placed it in, discovered something I should have noticed a while ago: the hairspring stud was extremely loose, borderline falling off, until it did fall off. That being said, I did manage to get the hairspring back to at least a more normal form, though its not perfect. The hairspring was making contact with the edge of the middle gear I’m fairly certain. I have no clue how to get the stud both back on in the correct spot and stuck there. This watch is certainly not an easy fix, which seems to be the trend with the non american made watches I manage to find. Thanks for the pictures especially, the full service helped me understand some of the stuff you were talking about!

 

[NUSAWC]

The three divots on the pillar plate correspond to a mark on the edge of the balance wheel (not the banking pin) and lining up the mark with the center divot will put the escapement in beat.

I agree with others who have said this watch is utterly normal, it's just very different from American watches. If you can handle American watches, you can handle this, but there are important differences, in the barrel, in the center wheel, and especially the escapement.

Alright, it’s a bit intimidating going from just starting to learn the basics and how to do very simple repairs to a whole new type, though its exciting as well. Always fun to learn new things! I managed to find where the collet and everything needs to go to be in beat, but the hairspring stud was loose and fell off, though I retrieved it. Now its a matter of figuring out how to get it back on, and then figuring out if the hairspring shape and the loose stud were the problems from the get-go. Thanks!

 

[NUSAWC]

Hi NUSAWC,

I think a good place to start for you is the Chicago School of Watchmaking course book, which should be available online for free if you search. It covers the basic working principles, nomenclature of parts and methods of repair and will equip you with sound knowledge as you work through it. When you progress further, the Antique Watch Restoration volumes by Archie B. Perkins are very comprehensive, but they're still pretty expensive.

Regards,

Graham

Alright, should I get a batch of test movements to try techniques on? Or should I just study it then try to apply it as I go? Thanks!

 

[NUSAWC]

Alright, it’s a bit intimidating going from just starting to learn the basics and how to do very simple repairs to a whole new type, though its exciting as well. Always fun to learn new things! I managed to find where the collet and everything needs to go to be in beat, but the hairspring stud was loose and fell off, though I retrieved it. Now its a matter of figuring out how to get it back on, and then figuring out if the hairspring shape and the loose stud were the problems from the get-go. Thanks!

To add to this, I discovered another problem, that being that when trying to set the time of the watch, it winds it. No matter which direction, when trying to set the time it gives tension to the spring and will then move backwards. This could be because I dont have the escapement in, however I find it strange. It also occasionally gets small bursts of energy after letting the mainspring down, and spins for between half a second and multiple seconds. The bursts happen generally when any pressure is applied on the bridges, including the balance. Could there be something wrong with the mainspring? Or is it more likely something to do with needing a clean? Will the watch run if this doesn’t get fixed? Thanks!

 

[Brunod]

To add to this, I discovered another problem, that being that when trying to set the time of the watch, it winds it. No matter which direction, when trying to set the time it gives tension to the spring and will then move backwards. This could be because I dont have the escapement in, however I find it strange. It also occasionally gets small bursts of energy after letting the mainspring down, and spins for between half a second and multiple seconds. The bursts happen generally when any pressure is applied on the bridges, including the balance. Could there be something wrong with the mainspring? Or is it more likely something to do with needing a clean? Will the watch run if this doesn’t get fixed? Thanks!

On a cylinder key watch, when setting the hour without escapement, it is normal. It doesn't wind, to wind it you have to use the other key hole. But it can't wind neither without escapement. Did you clean and oiled the mainspring ?
You should try to better understand how everything works together.
Some more pictures :

Cylinder gang zakhorloge met sleutel : how to service

Ik probeer hier stap by stap te verklaren hoe ik een service beurt geef. Het gaat over een oude cylinder gang zakhorloge met sleutel. Links op de fotos. (Als het over een anker gang gaat zou het anders zijn; het verschil is niet zo groot, maar die verschil te neigeren zou schade oorzaken). 3...

www.horlogeforum.nl

 

[gmorse]

Hi NUSAWC,

Or is it more likely something to do with needing a clean? Will the watch run if this doesn't get fixed?

Trying to fix perceived problems with any watch is a fruitless exercise if it isn't properly clean to begin with; that always the first step, otherwise you're simply wasting your time.

Trying to set the time on a cylinder movement without the balance in place will certainly cause the train to run because there's nothing to stop it. This is unlike a lever escapement where the lever holds up the train whether the balance is installed or not.

You should try to better understand how everything works together.

Exactly! I call this 'mechanical intuition'.

Regards,

Graham

 

[MrRoundel]

As far as the replacement of the HS stud goes, that's a tricky one. One thing I learned, once the hard way, is that you don't push the tapered pin in through the stud, you pull it through (I believe this was a Kalle from Chronoglide tip.). There's much less chance of a destroyed HS that way. There are special tools made for holding the stud while keeping the HS flat against a table. To me they look like miniature grand pianos. But I grew up in the sixties and seventies, a time before all of this "stuff" was legal.

BTW, when you say it fell off, did you lose the tiny tapered pin, or were you luckier than that? Good luck.

 

[gmorse]

Hi NUSAWC,

BTW, when you say it fell off, did you lose the tiny tapered pin, or were you luckier than that? Good luck.

If you still have the taper pin, the best way to put the stud back on the balance spring without access to special tools, is to put the stud in the balance cock and then place the balance where it should go, in the right orientation, (see Brunod's earlier suggestions on this), then reinsert the pin. You must keep the spring parallel to the cock so that it isn't tilted when the balance and cock are fitted back in the movement; you will need several tries to get it in the right shape at the correct length!

Regards,

Graham

 

[Brunod]

Hi NUSAWC,
...you will need several tries to get it in the right shape at the correct length!
Regards,
Graham

Exactly, so don't push it to lock, just squeeze it a little to try. An easy trick to put the old pin back in place is to use some rodico instead of tweezers. Using a new pin full length is easier, you just have to cut it after. Look if there is a flat side on the pin.
If the hairspring was previously mis formed by the pin it will help you to know where it must be set back.Iwish you to make it tick again. Enjoy !

 

[NUSAWC]

Hi NUSAWC,


Trying to fix perceived problems with any watch is a fruitless exercise if it isn't properly clean to begin with; that always the first step, otherwise you're simply wasting your time.

Trying to set the time on a cylinder movement without the balance in place will certainly cause the train to run because there's nothing to stop it. This is unlike a lever escapement where the lever holds up the train whether the balance is installed or not.



Exactly! I call this 'mechanical intuition'.

Regards,

Graham

I cleaned most of it, however its a basic clean using naptha, meaning I’m not sure if it will cut it for this. I was wondering if it might need a more thorough clean with professional tools and solutions. I think I’ll do more research in how it actually works before moving forward, I got the basic understanding from reading a few things and going through the links sent here, but figure I might need as much knowledge as I can find for this. Thanks for all the help!

 

[NUSAWC]

The watch should be cleaned. It is not a wise idewa to try running the train in the condition it is in.

I cleaned most of it, however its a basic clean using naptha, meaning I’m not sure if it will cut it for this. I was wondering if it might need a more thorough clean with professional tools and solutions. I think I’ll do more research in how it actually works before moving forward, I got the basic understanding from reading a few things and going through the links sent here, but figure I might need as much knowledge as I can find for this. Thanks for all the help!

Forgot to mention, I didnt clean the escapement yet because I was unsure how to get it off at the time.

 

[NUSAWC]

Exactly, so don't push it to lock, just squeeze it a little to try. An easy trick to put the old pin back in place is to use some rodico instead of tweezers. Using a new pin full length is easier, you just have to cut it after. Look if there is a flat side on the pin.
If the hairspring was previously mis formed by the pin it will help you to know where it must be set back.Iwish you to make it tick again. Enjoy !

I don’t think I have the tapered pin, tho I can check again. Its a somewhat easy area to find stuff again, but if not I can try to buy a new one. Thanks!

 

[NUSAWC]

It is quite small.

I don’t believe I can find it, spent about 30 minutes searching the area. Could have gotten launched. Is this a piece that I can simply buy online, and if so, do I just buy it from a parts house? Beyond that, are they all the same size or will I have to figure out what size I need? Thanks!

 

[gmorse]

Hi NUSAWC,

Could have gotten launched. Is this a piece that I can simply buy online, and if so, do I just buy it from a parts house? Beyond that, are they all the same size or will I have to figure out what size I need?

These tiny brass taper pins should be available in assortments from materials houses as 'hairspring fixing pins' or a similar description. They aren't all a standard size and you can't buy them singly, you have to just try them in the stud hole first without the spring in place to find one that sits in the hole about halfway through. Then with the spring in place it should still hold it properly. As Brunod said in post #39, don't push the pin fully home before you're sure the spring is the right length and orientated correctly. You can alter the beat by turning the collet on the staff once you have the balance oscillating at the right frequency.

Poor quality or worn tweezers are a definite hazard when handling such tiny pieces!

Regards,

Graham

 

[Brunod]

If you just need one, ask a watchmaker, If you don't, you can just make one with a brass wire (hammer, file, sand paper...) . That's the way I did until an old wathmaker, seeing how I proceed, gave me some of his stock.
But anyway, new or hand made, it must be a conical shape with a flat side to rest on the hairspring. Enjoy !
I wonder how you did to "clean" the watch. Cleaning doesn't mean to drop in any liquid, wait a while and pull out.

 

[NUSAWC]

If you just need one, ask a watchmaker, If you don't, you can just make one with a brass wire (hammer, file, sand paper...) . That's the way I did until an old wathmaker, seeing how I proceed, gave me some of his stock.
But anyway, new or hand made, it must be a conical shape with a flat side to rest on the hairspring. Enjoy !
I wonder how you did to "clean" the watch. Cleaning doesn't mean to drop in any liquid, wait a while and pull out.

For this one, I took out the gear train and the gears (barring escapement), and placed them in an electric sifting basket, which is the best way I can describe it. I then placed that in a naptha solution and very gently got it basically vibrating for a few minutes, before taking it all out and re-assembling. Its my basic method. Haven’t touched the mainspring as I don’t have a winder, but beyond that everything was given this treatment. Its not the best clean, but its the best I can do at the moment. I plan on getting better tools and solutions for cleaning, however I have a long list of things to get and not sure what I should be prioritizing, beyond first getting books.

I’m most likely going to purchase one from a parts house, as I don’t want to ruin anything.
Thanks!

 

[NUSAWC]

Hi NUSAWC,


These tiny brass taper pins should be available in assortments from materials houses as 'hairspring fixing pins' or a similar description. They aren't all a standard size and you can't buy them singly, you have to just try them in the stud hole first without the spring in place to find one that sits in the hole about halfway through. Then with the spring in place it should still hold it properly. As Brunod said in post #39, don't push the pin fully home before you're sure the spring is the right length and orientated correctly. You can alter the beat by turning the collet on the staff once you have the balance oscillating at the right frequency.

Poor quality or worn tweezers are a definite hazard when handling such tiny pieces!

Regards,

Graham

Alright! I have a few tweezers, and they are fairly good quality, though I’m still learning usage of them and developing my tweezer skills as some have called it. I’ll make sure to be delicate about it. Thanks!

 

[Brunod]

For this one, I took out the gear train and the gears (barring escapement), and placed them in an electric sifting basket, which is the best way I can describe it. I then placed that in a naptha solution and very gently got it basically vibrating for a few minutes, before taking it all out and re-assembling. Its my basic method. Haven’t touched the mainspring as I don’t have a winder, but beyond that everything was given this treatment. Its not the best clean, but its the best I can do at the moment. I plan on getting better tools and solutions for cleaning, however I have a long list of things to get and not sure what I should be prioritizing, beyond first getting books.

I’m most likely going to purchase one from a parts house, as I don’t want to ruin anything.
Thanks!

Previous centuries watchmakers didn't have electricity to clean or work. So everything may be cleaned by hand, easiest and cheapest way to begin.
Using a piece of pegwood or any other soft wooden toothpick, clean by scratching the jewels both from bridge and plate side.
You should acquire some Rodico (kind of chewing-gum like) to clean the parts. But there is a lot other things for which rodico is useful, like holding the pin to set it back in the stud.
The cleaning of the mainspring and barrel, which are the source of power, is very important.
Obviously, the escapement parts with balance and hairspring are as important too, but require more skill.