• For those of you who were having issues connecting to the Forums, it turns out that our modem was not functioning properly. We have replaced it now and the connection to the Forums has been restored. Thank you for your patience.

Pros/Cons of "spot cleaning" on pivots + oil as a first step...

Friendofclocks

Registered User
Dec 1, 2018
186
7
18
50
Country
Sorry for starting new thread on earlier discussion ("lubrication for Kieninger...") from last week, but out of concern this simple follow-up, but independently legitimate, question would get lost/buried there.

If for budgetary and/or time reasons I know I must defer taking the clock to a pro or investigating (letting down the springs etc.) the issue of wear, is a "spot clean" on pivot holes with a toothpick, to carefully remove dried oil/dust (aka "pivot poop") there and then proper oiling (both done on both sides of the removed movement, of course) a legitimate intermediate step if I must defer either taking it to a pro or letting down the springs for amateur or internet-nawcc-assisted wear assessment? Is it worth seeing if those steps improve things, or will they likely do more damage? If it's worth proceeding that way (as a temporary measure, tiding me over to proper servicing), would I be able to address spring lubrication without disassembly?

Thanks, and apologies again if this violates protocol. But it does seem a legitimate fresh question.

Again, the movement involved is an about 30 year old kieninger (all) spring driven pendulum wall clock, that stopped after about 36 hrs. (used goodwill purchase). It seems to my amateur eye very, very clean, as if previous owner lovingly cared for the clock (service sticker, shiny, no visible dust/grime movement); chimes (triple) extremely slow, but sped up quite a bit (to maybe 1/2-2/3 normal speed, from initially basically frozen) after cycling through about 50 hrs' chimings.
 

roughbarked

Registered User
Dec 2, 2016
5,663
691
113
Western NSW or just this side of the black stump.
Country
Region
30 years means it does indeed need a proper overhaul. You wouldn't even ride your pushbike that long without completely servicing the bearings. As a young lad I'd be pulling the wheel bearings out of friends pushbikes every weekend, cleaning and regreasing. The difference in ease of pedaling is quite remarkable.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Friendofclocks

Friendofclocks

Registered User
Dec 1, 2018
186
7
18
50
Country
Thanks roughbarked!

I'd be ashamed to show you my bike (that is, if the wheels didn't collapse off their axles on the way). But, being one who does the best possible within constraints, might do so anyway!

So my question was assuming I must defer proper servicing. I can live without the clock running at all for the time being; would I be doing damage to proceed as I suggest with that not half, but 1/10, measure?

Again, it appears to have received some service during those 30 years, but fairly clearly has not been re-bushed. Trying to get an idea if it would likely be totally futile (esp if as strongly suspected among nawcc experts- but not to a uniform degree - wear is the major culprit), or worse, damaging to try?

I don't want to be unrealistic, but isn't there some chance it's not wear at all, that in fact it was sitting idle for decades?) Again, looks extremely clean, at least superficially.

Thanks again!
 
Last edited:

R. Croswell

Registered User
Apr 4, 2006
10,837
1,050
113
Trappe, Md.
www.greenfieldclockshop.com
Country
Region
Sorry for starting new thread on earlier discussion ("lubrication for Kieninger...") from last week, but out of concern this simple follow-up, but independently legitimate, question would get lost/buried there.

If for budgetary and/or time reasons I know I must defer taking the clock to a pro or investigating (letting down the springs etc.) the issue of wear, is a "spot clean" on pivot holes with a toothpick, to carefully remove dried oil/dust (aka "pivot poop") there and then proper oiling (both done on both sides of the removed movement, of course) a legitimate intermediate step if I must defer either taking it to a pro or letting down the springs for amateur or internet-nawcc-assisted wear assessment? Is it worth seeing if those steps improve things, or will they likely do more damage? If it's worth proceeding that way (as a temporary measure, tiding me over to proper servicing), would I be able to address spring lubrication without disassembly?

Thanks, and apologies again if this violates protocol. But it does seem a legitimate fresh question.

Again, the movement involved is an about 30 year old kieninger (all) spring driven pendulum wall clock, that stopped after about 36 hrs. (used goodwill purchase). It seems to my amateur eye very, very clean, as if previous owner lovingly cared for the clock (service sticker, shiny, no visible dust/grime movement); chimes (triple) extremely slow, but sped up quite a bit (to maybe 1/2-2/3 normal speed, from initially basically frozen) after cycling through about 50 hrs' chimings.
Most of the dirt that may be causing you a problem is where it can't be seen, in, not around the pivot holes. Considering the clock's age, you already know it will need pivot and bushing work. So as long as it is your own clock, and you are not charging someone a service charge, and you don't pretend or claim to have properly serviced, go ahead and see what happens you won't hurt anything that doesn't already need attention. This should be only a temporary or diagnostic measure. This begs an answer to the question, why not just wait and do it right the first time and not waste time on what will likely be a very short lived "solution" to the underlying problem.

RC
 

bangster

Moderator
Staff member
NAWCC Member
Jan 1, 2005
19,931
459
83
utah
Country
Region
Short answer: You cannot harm a clock with the treatment you describe. You might well benefit it to a certain extent. Since you are not currently in a position to give it professional attention, until you are, go ahead with your treatment. Can't hurt. Might help.
 

Friendofclocks

Registered User
Dec 1, 2018
186
7
18
50
Country
Most of the dirt that may be causing you a problem is where it can't be seen, in, not around the pivot holes. Considering the clock's age, you already know it will need pivot and bushing work. So as long as it is your own clock, and you are not charging someone a service charge, and you don't pretend or claim to have properly serviced, go ahead and see what happens you won't hurt anything that doesn't already need attention. This should be only a temporary or diagnostic measure. This begs an answer to the question, why not just wait and do it right the first time and not waste time on what will likely be a very short lived "solution" to the underlying problem.

RC
Thanks RC, as always! Like in the Billy Joel song ("Innocent Man" album), yes "Get it right the first time." Always excellent advice.

But I was thinking that if I know I'm going to have to defer proper servicing (at least a month or 2), would I be doing any harm to see if this "spot clean" measure accomplishes anything? I see the Pros as including that I could be pleasantly surprised to learn that a) it's actually barely been used in those 30 years, or a lot less than the whole period, or that it received great serving earlier or both; it's possible (albeit unlikely) that there is much less wear than assumed. But the Cons include the issue of whether or not running such a clock without a needed overhaul exacerbates existing wear damage (such as uncleaned dirt abrading parts).

But as noted previously, I have (or rather, bought) two other goodwill clocks from the '80s or early '90s running flawlessly (so far) with no servicing. (I know, "a matter of time.") One of those though had been completely rebuilt about 15 or 20 years ago. So like I said elsewhere, the idea that these must all be hobbling, semi-crippled clocks seems to have some contrary evidence. It seems like it depends to an extent on how much the clock was actually used and the kind of care it got. So , though it's optimistic (maybe just wishful thinking), it's possible on this and the other two clocks I'm lucky and could get years of use without major problems. If I could get 5 years starting now, on all 3, then have to rebush or replace the movements in 2025, I consider that win-win-win. So far, 2 clocks are doing well, and this (the nicest by far of the 3), a setback but of undetermined cause/seriousness.

Thanks again!
 

Willie X

Registered User
Feb 9, 2008
13,164
1,200
113
They will often run for a while. I call it 'running on the oil'. The oil film will eventually flatten out and your clock will stop again. The results is highly variable depending on the actual condition of your clock.

If you see severe wear anywhere, it's best to just leave a dated note on that clock and don't try to run it. Stuff like this happens on clocks a lot younger than yours.
20170224_125016.jpg
I will send the photo you requested later tonight. WIllie X
 

Friendofclocks

Registered User
Dec 1, 2018
186
7
18
50
Country
They will often run for a while. I call it 'running on the oil'. The oil film will eventually flatten out and your clock will stop again. The results is highly variable depending on the actual condition of your clock.

If you see severe wear anywhere, it's best to just leave a dated note on that clock and don't try to run it. Stuff like this happens on clocks a lot younger than yours.
View attachment 565802
I will send the photo you requested later tonight. WIllie X
thanks as always, looking forward! no, rather not run it if it's just "on the oil"; but if the more optimistic scenario is involved (wear not so bad after all), I'd like to find that out and enjoy the clock!
 

Willie X

Registered User
Feb 9, 2008
13,164
1,200
113
Let-down tool,
And no, it doesn't have to be this fancy. :) The tool is a little over 1" in diameter, without the wrapping. The hole is 5/16" and pretty deep, in order to clear the little end of some double ended keys. The slot is 3/4" deep and just slightly wider than the key wing is thick. The wrapping does make the let-down a little more of a positive experience. Willie X
20200112_182525.jpg
 

Friendofclocks

Registered User
Dec 1, 2018
186
7
18
50
Country
Let-down tool,
And no, it doesn't have to be this fancy. :) The tool is a little over 1" in diameter, without the wrapping. The hole is 5/16" and pretty deep, in order to clear the little end of some double ended keys. The slot is 3/4" deep and just slightly wider than the key wing is thick. The wrapping does make the let-down a little more of a positive experience. Willie X
View attachment 565829
Thanks; frankly (and exposing my ignorance), I'd assumed a let down tool is something other than a key extender; I figured it like clock materials generally was some kind of precision forged implement. I'm sure I could make that. I'll (hopefully in the next several days) get myself a dowel that size and drill/cut it per your specs & proceed to the next stage, and in turn move toward some clearer evidence as to wear; just watched a youtube demonstration of letdown. Thanks again!
 

Uhralt

NAWCC Member
Sep 4, 2008
5,036
623
113
Country
Region
Thanks; frankly (and exposing my ignorance), I'd assumed a let down tool is something other than a key extender; I figured it like clock materials generally was some kind of precision forged implement. I'm sure I could make that. I'll (hopefully in the next several days) get myself a dowel that size and drill/cut it per your specs & proceed to the next stage, and in turn move toward some clearer evidence as to wear; just watched a youtube demonstration of letdown. Thanks again!
A piece of broom stick will be just fine.

Uhralt
 

Willie X

Registered User
Feb 9, 2008
13,164
1,200
113
This one started out as an old warehouse broom. I left the original hemispheric shape on the far end.
WIllie
 

Friendofclocks

Registered User
Dec 1, 2018
186
7
18
50
Country
Short answer: You cannot harm a clock with the treatment you describe. You might well benefit it to a certain extent. Since you are not currently in a position to give it professional attention, until you are, go ahead with your treatment. Can't hurt. Might help.
Thanks so much bangster, exactly addressing as asked (not that others -- Willie, RC, Roughbarked didn't all answers great, appreciated!)!
 

Friendofclocks

Registered User
Dec 1, 2018
186
7
18
50
Country
Don't see any deformed holes like in your photo, Willie, but I now see it would only be expected on the back of the spring pivot? In other words, nothing on the movement front plate seems to resemble that, but seems like I should expect such wear on the back. Hopefully in few days I'll make some progress. For the heck of it, I activated the chime after not touching the (idle) clock for a few days, and it was chiming at normal speed. Could it have just needed to "warm itself up," get over inertia of non-use?
 
Last edited:

kinsler33

Registered User
Aug 17, 2014
3,663
491
83
73
Lancaster, Ohio, USA
Country
Region
If for budgetary and/or time reasons I know I must defer taking the clock to a pro or investigating (letting down the springs etc.) the issue of wear, is a "spot clean" on pivot holes with a toothpick, to carefully remove dried oil/dust (aka "pivot poop") there and then proper oiling (both done on both sides of the removed movement, of course) a legitimate intermediate step if I must defer either taking it to a pro or letting down the springs for amateur or internet-nawcc-assisted wear assessment? Is it worth seeing if those steps improve things, or will they likely do more damage? If it's worth proceeding that way (as a temporary measure, tiding me over to proper servicing), would I be able to address spring lubrication without disassembly?
A toothpick won't accomplish much. Go to Walmart's auto section and buy a can of their cheapest (store brand) carb and choke cleaner. You want the stuff that's guaranteed to get you jailed in California, for it's chock-full of acetone, tolulene, and other stuff that'll change your neurological makeup if you breathe it.

Take the clock outside and spray out every pivot. You'll wreck the lacquer finish on the movement--it'll turn a sickly white-- but that won't affect its performance. Later on you can dip the plates in lacquer thinner and then go over them with Renaissance Wax to prevent tarnish, but that can wait indefinitely.

As for the springs, you can leave them alone, though if there's a slot in the barrel covers they would probably appreciate a squirt of oil. Note that you don't have to let the springs down to do any of this, and that one of the clock parts firms actually sells a version of carb cleaner re-labeled for use on clocks. (Brake cleaner might be a bit gentler, but carb cleaner has proven best.)

As you spray the clock it will get exceedingly cold and water will condense on it. So have a hair dryer handy to warm it back up and evaporate off the water, and don't spray anything into the mainspring barrels because the water won't evaporate.

Once the clock is warm and dry you can inspect it for wear and then lubricate it sparingly. Just about anything will work these days. I use Mobil1 0W-20 motor oil for my regular clock oil and it's proven excellent thus far, but any light synthetic oil will do. Note that the clock ought to run well without any oil at all: this won't cause any damage and is in fact helpful in judging its condition.

This foregoing is a poor method of cleaning a clock, especially one whose pivots were really gummed up. I tried it when I was first repairing clocks and had a less than perfect success rate, and I still practice it, but only under extreme circumstances. In fact, you may find that the clock will run worse after the gunk that's kept the pivots in place has been dissolved out. But if the clock suffers from only solidified lubricant it'll work fine.

A somewhat better, albeit non-ideal method consists of removing the spring barrels, which you can do on most modern German clocks, and immersing the rest of the assembled movement in a heated ultrasonic cleaner tank for a while. (I use Zep 505 industrial degreaser, a 50C temperature setting, and a thirty-minute run.)

But it's better if you take the plates apart, which you'll be doing eventually anyway. If your hands are steadier than mine are, and I hope they are, the much-feared assembly process is not nearly as big a deal as you'd imagine, and you'll have a chance to polish off the pivots (in most German clocks they generally just need a cleaning rather than a resurfacing) and to bush any ovalled-out holes, which you can do quite nicely by hand: no bushing machine is necessary.

You _will_ need a mainspring winder, which is necessary for safety and sanity.
 

Friendofclocks

Registered User
Dec 1, 2018
186
7
18
50
Country
A toothpick won't accomplish much. Go to Walmart's auto section and buy a can of their cheapest (store brand) carb and choke cleaner. You want the stuff that's guaranteed to get you jailed in California, for it's chock-full of acetone, tolulene, and other stuff that'll change your neurological makeup if you breathe it.

Take the clock outside and spray out every pivot. You'll wreck the lacquer finish on the movement--it'll turn a sickly white-- but that won't affect its performance. Later on you can dip the plates in lacquer thinner and then go over them with Renaissance Wax to prevent tarnish, but that can wait indefinitely.

As for the springs, you can leave them alone, though if there's a slot in the barrel covers they would probably appreciate a squirt of oil. Note that you don't have to let the springs down to do any of this, and that one of the clock parts firms actually sells a version of carb cleaner re-labeled for use on clocks. (Brake cleaner might be a bit gentler, but carb cleaner has proven best.)

As you spray the clock it will get exceedingly cold and water will condense on it. So have a hair dryer handy to warm it back up and evaporate off the water, and don't spray anything into the mainspring barrels because the water won't evaporate.

Once the clock is warm and dry you can inspect it for wear and then lubricate it sparingly. Just about anything will work these days. I use Mobil1 0W-20 motor oil for my regular clock oil and it's proven excellent thus far, but any light synthetic oil will do. Note that the clock ought to run well without any oil at all: this won't cause any damage and is in fact helpful in judging its condition.

This foregoing is a poor method of cleaning a clock, especially one whose pivots were really gummed up. I tried it when I was first repairing clocks and had a less than perfect success rate, and I still practice it, but only under extreme circumstances. In fact, you may find that the clock will run worse after the gunk that's kept the pivots in place has been dissolved out. But if the clock suffers from only solidified lubricant it'll work fine.

A somewhat better, albeit non-ideal method consists of removing the spring barrels, which you can do on most modern German clocks, and immersing the rest of the assembled movement in a heated ultrasonic cleaner tank for a while. (I use Zep 505 industrial degreaser, a 50C temperature setting, and a thirty-minute run.)

But it's better if you take the plates apart, which you'll be doing eventually anyway. If your hands are steadier than mine are, and I hope they are, the much-feared assembly process is not nearly as big a deal as you'd imagine, and you'll have a chance to polish off the pivots (in most German clocks they generally just need a cleaning rather than a resurfacing) and to bush any ovalled-out holes, which you can do quite nicely by hand: no bushing machine is necessary.

You _will_ need a mainspring winder, which is necessary for safety and sanity.
Thanks kinsler33; fantastic response, so thoughtful and detailed! Wow!
Virtually everything you said is extraordinarily informative and helpful; I hope to apply every insight which you convey to perfectly, painstakingly, as opportunities arise and I grow in this area of endeavor. Maybe the most exciting thing you said is that I can install bushings by hand, "no machine necessary."

On this particular clock, I could see myself trying that (with some practice first on other pieces of brass), if that would overcome any wear problem (and I were reasonably confident it I wouldn't mess up my movement), without having to spend my very scarce funds.

But as to "acetone tolulene" cleaner that's going to spoil the lacquer finish, I wouldn't do that only because this clock is by far the prettiest (of only 3 though) I've purchased, with side windows showing off the movement. Certainly wouldn't want to spoil that. (Sorry for being superficial!)

The truth is, even in clocks that conceal the movement, I'd think preserving the brass's beauty is usually a priority, unless it's already past preserving. I guess I could imagine clocks where you wouldn't care...

As to encouraging me to "take the plunge" with an ultrasonic degreaser, now there you definitely are getting me interested. Though I wouldn't buy one, I suspect I could get access to one.

On the other hand, the guidance I've gotten around here suggests I should work my way up to doing that on a chiming clock (mine is; triple chime actually). But I just watched a video of the whole cleaning process (ultrasonic bath etc.) & I think I could do it and enjoy the process from disassembly to cleaning to re-assembly. But still, I think it's best to be cautious given how much I like the clock. For this job, maybe prefer to make whatever sacrifice to have a pro do it. In any case, it's at least a month before I can really address it. I'll learn more about the process, study the videos a bit closer, and possibly "take that plunge."

You said a lot more to address, but to tired to read everything you said very closely right now; I'll respond to your other great tips probably tomorrow. Thanks again!!
 

shutterbug

Moderator
Staff member
NAWCC Member
Oct 19, 2005
45,605
1,654
113
North Carolina
Country
Region
Actually, your proposal might be of some benefit to this forum. We often deride such a procedure and call it "dunk and swish" or "Dunken Swish" as it has comically become. I would encourage you to go ahead and do what you propose. Then let us know (1) does the clock run now, and (2) how long did it run before stopping again.
Those two factors might help us in future discussions about the pro's and con's of the thing. Include some pictures of the pivot conditions before and after the cleaning, and the exact procedure you decided to follow.
If you like, you can even start a third thread with "Dunk and Swish" as the title. Don't forget to add the last part (number 2) regardless of how much time goes by. Thanks!
 

Willie X

Registered User
Feb 9, 2008
13,164
1,200
113
Mineral sprits, applied with a small brush and removed with compressed air, is a much kinder and gentler approach. Work from both sides of the plate. And keep at it until the visable residue is rinsed away. As already stated, this is not a fix and does very little to remove the offending trapped crud that you can't see.

Note, a decent brush can be found where plumbing supplies are sold. It's called a 'flux brush'. They have a cheap metal handle and you will need to cut the bristles off to about 3/8" long for best results.

WIllie X
 

0ldMan

Registered User
Dec 1, 2019
26
4
3
74
WV
Country
Region
Re: carb cleaner; :(
Total amateur noob here, offering a strong NO, don’t do that.
Did that - made a real mess of a previously nice looking Kieninger movement.
Subsequently disassembled, cleaned everything with brass polish, sprayed plates with clear coat (enamel, not lacquer - another no-no?), cleaned pivot holes with smoothing broach, then reassembled. Btw, very little wear on this 1975 movement. All seems good now, except for broken pivot on escape wheel. Trying to justify purchase of mini-lathe to repair properly. Always was interested in machining, just no good excuse. We’ll see.
Meanwhile really enjoy and appreciate the wealth of info/education on this site. Been reading, reading, reading,
 
  • Like
Reactions: Friendofclocks

woodlawndon

NAWCC Member
Jan 18, 2017
737
187
43
Woodlawn, Ontario
Country
Region
I'll give you a bit of a different perspective. I did exactly what the OP is proposing with my very first antique clock and I managed to actually get it running. I was elated and it probably was a big push for me to continue to climb into clock repair. Eventually I went back to it and serviced it properly but I still have that clock and probably always will.

Now you may or may not be able to get your clock going and if you do it probably won't continue to run properly for very long. However, I would encourage you to try it, if nothing else it will get you comfortable with handling the movement, studying how each part interacts and a better understanding of how it works.

Go for it, you may find that you want to continue and dig deeper once your learning expands.
Don
 
  • Like
Reactions: Friendofclocks

Friendofclocks

Registered User
Dec 1, 2018
186
7
18
50
Country
I'll give you a bit of a different perspective. I did exactly what the OP is proposing with my very first antique clock and I managed to actually get it running. I was elated and it probably was a big push for me to continue to climb into clock repair. Eventually I went back to it and serviced it properly but I still have that clock and probably always will.

Now you may or may not be able to get your clock going and if you do it probably won't continue to run properly for very long. However, I would encourage you to try it, if nothing else it will get you comfortable with handling the movement, studying how each part interacts and a better understanding of how it works.

Thanks, Don!
Go for it, you may find that you want to continue and dig deeper once your learning expands.
Don
 

Friendofclocks

Registered User
Dec 1, 2018
186
7
18
50
Country
Re: carb cleaner; :(
Total amateur noob here, offering a strong NO, don’t do that.
Did that - made a real mess of a previously nice looking Kieninger movement.
Subsequently disassembled, cleaned everything with brass polish, sprayed plates with clear coat (enamel, not lacquer - another no-no?), cleaned pivot holes with smoothing broach, then reassembled. Btw, very little wear on this 1975 movement. All seems good now, except for broken pivot on escape wheel. Trying to justify purchase of mini-lathe to repair properly. Always was interested in machining, just no good excuse. We’ll see.
Meanwhile really enjoy and appreciate the wealth of info/education on this site. Been reading, reading, reading,
Thanks!! As indicated above, I super-appreciate all tips/insights/advice; but that in this case I love the clock aesthetically, and going absolutely "hippocratic" (first, do no harm!) in this case. Nothing more extreme than a toothpick, though I'll quite possibly take up Willie's suggestion concerning mineral spirits and that brush he referred to...

Thanks everybody again!
 

bangster

Moderator
Staff member
NAWCC Member
Jan 1, 2005
19,931
459
83
utah
Country
Region
Steps along the way:

1. Toothpick and oil.
2. Dip the toothpick in solvent (paint thinner,nail polish remover) to help get out the crud.
3. After, or instead of, the toothpick, take a small stiff-bristled brush and go at the pivots with solvent. A hard toothbrush would do. (Willie's advice)
4. After doing the above, fill a spray bottle with mineral spirits (paint thinner) and flush out the innards and front matter as best you can. Try to keep it out of the spring barrels..When done, blow out most of the solvent with compressed air or canned air. The rest will evaporate.*
5. After any of these procedures remember to oil the clock.

These are all simple, useful alternatives to splitting the plates and disassembly, which you will get to eventually.
=============
*Not as effective as carb cleaner, but it won't affect the lacquer.
 

Friendofclocks

Registered User
Dec 1, 2018
186
7
18
50
Country
Steps along the way:

1. Toothpick and oil.
2. Dip the toothpick in solvent (paint thinner,nail polish remover) to help get out the crud.
3. After, or instead of, the toothpick, take a small stiff-bristled brush and go at the pivots with solvent. A hard toothbrush would do. (Willie's advice)
4. After doing the above, fill a spray bottle with mineral spirits (paint thinner) and flush out the innards and front matter as best you can. Try to keep it out of the spring barrels..When done, blow out most of the solvent with compressed air or canned air. The rest will evaporate.*
5. After any of these procedures remember to oil the clock.

These are all simple, useful alternatives to splitting the plates and disassembly, which you will get to eventually.
=============
*Not as effective as carb cleaner, but it won't affect the lacquer.
Thank you so much bangster! I think you have pretty much mapped out my itinerary, at least for the first stage! Will also be making that let down tool! Very happy and confident all will be positive steps, but ultimately will give the clock the proper care it requires, addressing wear, re-bushing as necessary etc etc etc; Thanks again bangster, Willie, Bruce, RC, Dick, all others who've been chiming in so thoughtfully!
 
Last edited:

Friendofclocks

Registered User
Dec 1, 2018
186
7
18
50
Country
Greetings Willie, Dick, Bangster, RC, Don, Shutterbug, Kinsley, and others who so graciously gave so generously with advice and help slightly ovr a year ago and many times before that!

Sorry I never followed through with reports of things working out great (or not!) on my confusingly-beloved walnut triple-chiming walnut clock find! Immediately after getting pointed the way by you kind folks (as generous with your patience as with your insights and advice), all the crazy events of 2020 started to break (pandemic, impeachment (#1), lockdowns, election season etc.... so much going on in the world (and my personal "homefront") that I didn't have the energy and mental bandwidth to actually follow through on this project, which meant my clock is a dormant decoration in seemingly permanent limbo. I almost certainly will follow through ("one of these days") on Willie's tips on making a let-down device to unwind the clock and allow pictures of the plates for perusal here. When exactly, not sure (first I still want/need to repair a broken/glue-failed joint on the door which I plan to attack by scraping the old glue - including that of a faulty previous repair- and using metal pins for strength).... I know that the two projects will be stressful and taxing, so procrastinated with all the other stuff going on...

So -not that anybody was probably extremely curious-- just thought I'd "update not to much to update"; one of these days......

Thanks so much again, everybody!!
Best wishes,
Andrew

PS: I hope all of you/NAWCC community have weathered these world events relatively well, with minimal hardships health-wise, financial, and in other respects; only all the best to all of you!
 
  • Like
Reactions: Kevin W.

shutterbug

Moderator
Staff member
NAWCC Member
Oct 19, 2005
45,605
1,654
113
North Carolina
Country
Region
Thanks, Andrew. Keep us posted! ;)
 

Friendofclocks

Registered User
Dec 1, 2018
186
7
18
50
Country
Thanks, Andrew. Keep us posted! ;)
Well, now that you guys are nudging me along with passive-aggressive pressure “Keep us posted!”, I guess I have no choice but to proceed (although I admit the first step in any healthy initiative is a healthy dose of procrastination, which -the procrastination that is- I’ll start tomorrow; I’m in pre-procrastination today, diligently planning how I’ll put things off)...

Speaking of which, do professional horologists have any unique strategies for the art of procrastination? I bet there are ways to rig clocks (like have the movement run two minutes backward after each 3 minutes forward), or just logos like “Proctastination Time” where some clock glass might otherwise have embossed “standard time”.....

Joking aside, clock projects lend themselves to procrastination because you can know going into it the fear of irreversible damage combined with prolonged exertion, and when the clock’s just sitting there not running there’s a strange sense of assurance that though it’s not running, you imagine it as running, at least potentially. And it’s more appealing to have your clock that way (however unrealistically), rather than the one you know won’t run because of damage you did. And it just sits there (falsely) reassuringly as a kind of symbol of “frozen” endlessly available time.

Excuse my random (and verbose) musings on procrastination with clocks (part of my strategy of avoiding productivity ).
 

shutterbug

Moderator
Staff member
NAWCC Member
Oct 19, 2005
45,605
1,654
113
North Carolina
Country
Region
Procrastination is a double edged sword. On the plus side, setting the work aside when frustration sets in might protect both the clock and any nearby window from damage. But on the negative side, putting things off will cause the brain to erase any stored information about where things go. That's when you find that you have extra parts after the clock is re-assembled :)
 

Friendofclocks

Registered User
Dec 1, 2018
186
7
18
50
Country
Procrastination is a double edged sword. On the plus side, setting the work aside when frustration sets in might protect both the clock and any nearby window from damage. But on the negative side, putting things off will cause the brain to erase any stored information about where things go. That's when you find that you have extra parts after the clock is re-assembled :)
Very well put (I -with some angst about the imagery I can relate to- know what you mean about procrastination’s gruesome reverse twin, destructive rashness); remind me to sue Apple (not today, but the day after tomorrow) for building into my life the most formidable procrastination enabler ever designed, addressing precisely the issue you raise: the voice memo recorder app built into every iPhone.

It happened one day I fell into the forgotten planned details trap, where I had had a very intricate plan all mapped out in my mind. “So perfect you cannot possibly forget it,” I told myself. “Not possibly,” Ha ha: “Inevitably” more like it. In my consternation the very next time (ok, 2 or 7 times after that), I decided to say my plan into the voice recorder.

All I can say is it’s a good thing I upgraded from my original 32gb device to higher memory, because my phone now stored everything I used to pretend to myself my brain would.

Now I just have to start executing (and start by listening) to those memos...maybe tomorrow! (Or the day after.....)
Thanks for reply Shutterbug!
 

Friendofclocks

Registered User
Dec 1, 2018
186
7
18
50
Country
Very well put (I -with some angst about the imagery I can relate to- know what you mean about procrastination’s gruesome reverse twin, destructive rashness); remind me to sue Apple (not today, but the day after tomorrow) for building into my life the most formidable procrastination enabler ever designed, addressing precisely the issue you raise: the voice memo recorder app built into every iPhone.

It happened one day I fell into the forgotten planned details trap, where I had had a very intricate plan all mapped out in my mind. “So perfect you cannot possibly forget it,” I told myself. “Not possibly,” Ha ha: “Inevitably” more like it. In my consternation the very next time (ok, 2 or 7 times after that), I decided to say my plan into the voice recorder.

All I can say is it’s a good thing I upgraded from my original 32gb device to higher memory, because my phone now stored everything I used to pretend to myself my brain would.

Now I just have to start executing (and start by listening) to those memos...maybe tomorrow! (Or the day after.....)
Thanks for reply Shutterbug!
Actually quite seriously: there may be a kind of peculiar but plausible business opportunity in my “Procrastination Time” or “Procrastination Standard Time” clock suggestion. If you could rig a clock as described, reverse paint glass with that caption (ie, like “regulator” appears on so many non-regulators), it would make a potentially lucrative novelty item. Patent it (pls give me 10% proceeds for idea), then Shark Tank it or wait for the Chinese and either make a deal or sue and settle.... but a Procrastination Clock (come to think of it, there could be straight, non novelty-joke versions as well, running in procrastination-combatting ways like speeding ahead at certain times...).
 

Willie X

Registered User
Feb 9, 2008
13,164
1,200
113
Awrite Andrew, don't go off the reservation there, try to focus.
We've invested 34 post over a years time and now expect at least a little action on your end, even a box of "Q"tips, an ounce of mineral spirits, toothpicks, something ... Maybe some shaming will work??
:) :) Willie
 

Friendofclocks

Registered User
Dec 1, 2018
186
7
18
50
Country
Awrite Andrew, don't go off the reservation there, try to focus.
We've invested 34 post over a years time and now expect at least a little action on your end, even a box of "Q"tips, an ounce of mineral spirits, toothpicks, something ... Maybe some shaming will work??
:) :) Willie
Thanks Willie, yes shaming works!
Although I suppose it’s an excuse, the (lame) reason I haven’t proceeded with those obviously simple steps that can be done in 5 minutes is the door damage (the joints had come apart, and faultily repaired with glue I’ll have to painstakingly scrape off so as not to damage the beautiful walnut) seems primary because the case wouldn’t be in condition even if I get it running. My plan has been, after scraping that glue, to drill holes by the joints and use metal pins, which because I’m not a craftsman and have the most limited tools will require slightly bigger holes and quickwood (epoxy filler) to fill the gaps, me holding it together during 30-30 minute curing. Totally amateur solution to having no drill press or real skills. (Obviously wood glue at the adjoining surfaces as well.)

About 3 years ago I posted here about a finished Craft Products oak reproduction school clock, Hermle powered, that I also bought for a song taxing my limited woodworking skills. Some of the original work had been sloppy with imperfect angles and other flaws, and it was -at my skill level- nasty work trying to redo things perfectly, which I eventually accomplished. Now that was a (by NAWACC standards, but I always liked its starkly understated simplicity) quite mediocre reproduction clock in oak, and this is beautiful black walnut with walnut burl trim and bonnet, a much higher end item I’m all the more determined not to maul. As noted before, it has a Kieninger Trippe Chime movement that seems higher end (thicker plates, though not by a lot, and minor aesthetic features like like prettily shaped brackets); I bet the kit (yes, also a Craft Products repro kit) cost a good $375-$425 (maybe 450) back in the late 80s.

If you see the pictures from the earlier connected thread, you’ll find its unusually attractive especially for a repro kit.

So yes, I’ve procrastinated mainly because I’ve had so much OTHER stress reluctant to bring severe aggravation on myself with the wood work, although quite likely in may be less than a couple hours’ work. The school clock also seemed like that but with mishaps and corrections it dominated my life for a week. (Painstakingly repositioning screw holes so parts would be straight, the dial centered and plum, same for the pendulum door and weird octagon scheme).... so I feel like I have to be in mental condition with something approaching actual “leisure” to do it in a way that won’t torture me. In itself any project like this is positively enjoyable, but when it’s compounding severe stress (which I’ve had) in other area, it takes on a totally different feeling, and any small frustration or setback can extraordinarily unpleasant. So right now it hangs as a very pretty decoration with the door jerry-rigged in place.,..

All that said, you peer pressure works, I’ll try to get moving on it very very soon; Thanks Willie (et al) as always!!

Andrew
BTW- part of it was that I’ve been determined to make that let-down tool you advised me on to examine the pivots, I am in some dread that it will need re-bushing. So that’s also been a factor, but I’ll try to overcome it!!
Cheers and thanks again!!!
 

Forum statistics

Threads
163,705
Messages
1,422,670
Members
85,062
Latest member
dwmacke
Encyclopedia Pages
1,101
Total wiki contributions
2,861
Last edit
Bread Upon the Waters by Tom McIntyre