Problem with hallmarks

[Allan C. Purcell]

I am having a problem with these hallmarks. I think they are London 1758. "The letter C" I also think the case-makers mark is E*B for Edward Bradshaw, 1758-1763, see Priestley. Can anyone help?

R/.

Allan.

 

[eddywatch]

I am having a problem with these hallmarks. I think they are London 1758. "The letter C" I also think the case-makers mark is E*B for Edward Bradshaw, 1758-1763, see Priestley. Can anyone help?

R/.

Allan.

View attachment 668004 View attachment 668007

Yes you are possibly right.
The Lion Passant denotes sterling silver or (little known fact) at this time 22ct gold.
The punchmark to the left is the Leopards Head (Crowned) for London assay. This is frequently unidentifiable as the punches were used from year to year and became worn.
The date letter is 1758. The shape of the cartouche is almost characteristic for this set though there should be indentations on either side.
BUT (and it is a big but) there is an issue: the style of the serial number is not English but continental. Such watches were formerly called "Dutch forgeries" and frequently have repoussé outer cases. A lot of these have fake hallmarks to avoid English duty. In this case the date letter may not signify any particular year. If the maker is "Tarts" that is certainly the case.

 

[Allan C. Purcell]

Eddywatch, thank you for that, I have also thought about the Dutch Fake angle, but I will know more when it arrives, I am told it is in full working order. Another point about the watch. is the name engraved on the top plate John Taylor, of Petworth. This too could point to Dutch fake, I have searched for this John Taylor with little success.

R/.

Allan.

 

[novicetimekeeper]

Will of John Taylor, Watchmaker of Petworth , Sussex | The National Archives

The official archive of the UK government. Our vision is to lead and transform information management, guarantee the survival of today's information for tomorrow and bring history to life for everyone.

discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk

 

[eric the bully]

Will of John Taylor, Watchmaker of Petworth , Sussex | The National Archives

The official archive of the UK government. Our vision is to lead and transform information management, guarantee the survival of today's information for tomorrow and bring history to life for everyone.

discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Regards enrico

You beat me, once again

 

[Allan C. Purcell]

That´s a WOW chap´s, first time for me to get two experts all at once. Being a member of the NA, I should have looked there. I have now printed it off, and it would appear he was a capable person. with a nice family. Plus John Taylor was thrifty and left this world with a clear conscience. I will put all I know of the watch on the board when it arrives, plus some nice photographs.

Thanks again.

Allan.

 

[snailcam]

Eddywatch, thank you for that, I have also thought about the Dutch Fake angle, but I will know more when it arrives, I am told it is in full working order. Another point about the watch. is the name engraved on the top plate John Taylor, of Petworth. This too could point to Dutch fake, I have searched for this John Taylor with little success.

R/.

Allan.

View attachment 668211

That movement looks like good quality London work. The irregular edge to the regulator plate is consistent with pre-1760 manufacture: lace edge cocks go back at least to the 1750s.
Take my worry about the hallmarks with a degree of scepticism, I was letting my paranoia show. However do check the fit of the movement in the inner case, especially around the hinge and catch. It should be a tight fit in both places.

 

[novicetimekeeper]

That´s a WOW chap´s, first time for me to get two experts all at once. Being a member of the NA, I should have looked there. I have now printed it off, and it would appear he was a capable person. with a nice family. Plus John Taylor was thrifty and left this world with a clear conscience. I will put all I know of the watch on the board when it arrives, plus some nice photographs.

Thanks again.

Allan.

I don't think I have skills anything approaching those of enrico and I'm an expert in nothing.

One thing I have found useful though, especially when searching google is not working, is to try clockmakers/watchmakers of town/village.

It is especially useful with common names that throw up far too many irrelevant results.

 

[John Matthews]

have searched for this John Taylor with little success

Allan - you surprise me.

Loomes: Taylor, John Petworth (Sussex) 1776 - 82
Moore: 28/186 Taylor John mas, John Johnson app, Petworth Sussex 7 Nov 1775 7 years £21
Britten: Taylor, John 1762 Petworth, watch
Ballie: Taylor, John Petworth before 1790 - also lists a William clock & watch maker 1794-90 (possibly related, son?) & John Johnson clock maker 1795, possibly his apprentice.

Dates given by Loomes are often approximate, I find. I see no reason why your case hallmarks are not as you suggest and that the case is contemporary with the movement.

John

 

[eric the bully]

I also found this Pdf, but perhaps it is already known.
Regards enrico

 

[Allan C. Purcell]

The watch arrived.

Allan.