Probable Riley Whiting shelf clock, great tablet.

Discussion in 'Wood Movement Clocks' started by steamer471, Feb 3, 2018.

  1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  1. steamer471

    steamer471 Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Nov 2, 2013
    514
    97
    28
    Male
    Self employed
    Charlotte NC
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    I acquired this today at a local antique mall. The label is in good shape and so is the dial. It's my first woodworks movement and am happy to add it to my collection. It missing the finials and someone has used hot glue on some parts of the case. The key is not original and the lock key is not with it. The bottom glass is cracked. I love the feet. Had to disassemble it to bring it home. Any comments or help appreciated.

    20180203_183037.jpg 20180203_183058.jpg 20180203_183051.jpg 20180203_183305.jpg
     
  2. Rockin Ronnie

    Rockin Ronnie Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Nov 18, 2012
    1,584
    124
    63
    Male
    retired educator
    Greenfield, Nova Scotia
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    I have only one wood movement, a Daniel Pratt Jr. and at the moment I am loathe to repair it. It seems like uncharted territory for me. Seems like you are missing the pendulum bob and the weights as well. Looks like a wood dial and in good shape with hands that appear appropriate for the period . Nice acquisition!

    Ron
     
  3. steamer471

    steamer471 Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Nov 2, 2013
    514
    97
    28
    Male
    Self employed
    Charlotte NC
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Thanks Ronnie. Yes I have the pendulum bob and the weights, weights look original but the bob I can't tell. I also have no experience with wood works but have read a lot on here about them and can probably handle it. The bridge for the escape wheel is cracked and looks like it's going to be "fun" to work on.
     
  4. rmarkowitz1_cee4a1

    rmarkowitz1_cee4a1 Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Nov 26, 2009
    5,325
    938
    113
    Country Flag:
    Hate to be the party pooper.

    That's not a Terry movement (if I'm wrong, someone will set the record straight) and the label looks like it might be a modern repro.

    RM
     
  5. sylvester12

    sylvester12 Registered User

    Oct 17, 2015
    623
    97
    28
    Country Flag:
    Wooden movements are not too bad to work on. I just finished repairing some gears on my Seth Thomas, getting the strike rods that someone bent adjusted properly now.
     
  6. steamer471

    steamer471 Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Nov 2, 2013
    514
    97
    28
    Male
    Self employed
    Charlotte NC
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    That would not surprise me after the research I have done over the past few hours. So far all the bridges I've seen for escape wheels are at the top of the movement. I am a total newbie to these though.
     
  7. steamer471

    steamer471 Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Nov 2, 2013
    514
    97
    28
    Male
    Self employed
    Charlotte NC
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    After researching here and on the web I have concluded that the label is a forgery. This clock is most likely a Riley Whiting. By looking at the position of the escape wheel and the count wheel setup. I still love the clock and don't worry about being a "party pooper" I love old clocks and the tales they tell, truth or fable.
     
  8. ballistarius

    ballistarius Registered User

    Oct 26, 2009
    836
    30
    28
    Male
    Architect
    Bilbao, Basque Country
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Anyway, you have a short drop movement (but, hey, how many teeth has the escape wheel? difficult to count wiht the wooden bridge, but I count too few for a short drop o_O) with a nice case of the transition style (not sure about the splat's originality, but I'm not an expert) perhaps you should move tho the 'wooden' section to get more information :cool:

    Aitor
     
  9. steamer471

    steamer471 Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Nov 2, 2013
    514
    97
    28
    Male
    Self employed
    Charlotte NC
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Thanks for the reply. I will investigate further when I get back to the clock. First thing I want to do is have a look under that label. Someone went to a lot of trouble to install that. I suspect they removed the backboard (it's a little loose). I only paid $80 for it so it still was a good deal to me. I bought this out of a collection of clocks and my wife had to stop me from buying more and I'm glad she did. This looks to been done a while ago and maybe for someone's ego but I suspect to fool an unsuspecting novice(like me). Anyhow I look forward to restoring it. If a mod wants to move this that's fine with me. Can even change the name to fit the subject.
     
  10. sylvester12

    sylvester12 Registered User

    Oct 17, 2015
    623
    97
    28
    Country Flag:
    It looks like a Whiting movement, for $80.00 it's definitely restorable.
     
  11. steamer471

    steamer471 Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Nov 2, 2013
    514
    97
    28
    Male
    Self employed
    Charlotte NC
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Yes I love the case. The movement looks good to a novice, sure I'll find out differently. The chime wouldn't strike in the store and I had to cut the cord to get the weight out. I really concerned about that good looking label:mallet:
     
  12. Jerome collector

    Jerome collector Registered User
    NAWCC Fellow NAWCC Member

    Sep 4, 2005
    846
    69
    28
    Geologist, US Army Corps of Engineers
    Omaha, NE
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    I don't think there's any question but that the label is a reproduction. I wouldn't hesitate to remove it, if it can be done without damaging anything underneath. If you're lucky there may be remnants of the original label underneath. The movement is definitely a Riley Whiting; it would be nice to verify that it's original to the case. One thing to look for is an extra set of holes for the retention pins that go through the vertical rails into the movement to hold it in place. Alternatively, an extra set of holes in the movement itself may be evident. In either case, it would be a sure sign the the movement is not original.

    Don't be too hard on yourself (the .gif you posted at the tail end of your last post isn't fair to you!). All of us have paid "tuition" when it's comes to learning hard lessons. Treat your first wood works clock as an opportunity to learn more about these clocks. There's a vast world out there to explore.

    Mike
     
    George Nelson and sylvester12 like this.
  13. David 62

    David 62 Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Nov 28, 2004
    391
    3
    18
    Those Terry,Jr.labels were reproduced and it appears that you have a reproduction label. I would try to remove it,as suggested,and hopefully you will find some of the original under it.Look at the rails that hold the movement in the case with four wire pins to see if there are any extra holes in the rails or evidence that the holes were altered to fit the current movement into the case.
     
  14. steamer471

    steamer471 Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Nov 2, 2013
    514
    97
    28
    Male
    Self employed
    Charlotte NC
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Thanks David. I will try to find what's underneath and look for the holes. Not disappointed at all just got to darn excited. The bugs really got me.
     
  15. David 62

    David 62 Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Nov 28, 2004
    391
    3
    18
    The good thing is that you have a original reverse painted tablet and a nice dial.In my opinion,the tablets and dials on 19th.century American wooden works clocks are folk art and is under appreciated in the antique circles.
     
    George Nelson likes this.
  16. steamer471

    steamer471 Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Nov 2, 2013
    514
    97
    28
    Male
    Self employed
    Charlotte NC
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    I have to agree, compared my later brass clocks this clock feels more artistic. It truly is all handcrafted.
     
  17. Peter A. Nunes

    Peter A. Nunes Moderator
    NAWCC Fellow NAWCC Member Sponsor

    Mar 3, 2006
    1,655
    16
    38
    Male
    Restorer of antique clocks.
    Rhode Island
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    What a wonderful tablet, and with original putty- the condition, save for the forgivable crack, is remarkable. The mahogany veneer splat is great too. As has been mentioned, it's a Riley Whiting movement, and I'll bet .25 that it's a Whiting clock.
     
  18. George Nelson

    George Nelson Registered User
    NAWCC Member Deceased

    Oct 5, 2007
    931
    12
    18
    Male
    Retired
    Tennessee
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    One thing I've encountered with Whiting products is that he often put superior tablets in his clocks. Yours is no exception. It is my personal belief that your clock is indeed a Whiting that someone assumed would be more valuable with a label, no matter who's it is. If it can be removed, so much the better.

    Best,

    George N.
     
  19. steamer471

    steamer471 Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Nov 2, 2013
    514
    97
    28
    Male
    Self employed
    Charlotte NC
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    I pulled the backboard and the movement out today and it's all original even wood bushings in the movement. No extra mounting holes but I've still got a lot of work to do. A lot of pieces on the top have been hot glued back together and it's really bad sloppy work. A pinion on the time side is missing two teeth. Other than that that's all that's really broken. I removed the offending label and nothing remained of an old one underneath. I found three holes under the sticker that I am curious about. Actually I am really glad that sticker was there, at first glance I thought the clock was just another beat up old ogee and I never knew about column and splats, empires or any of these truly beautiful works of art. Thanks to all that have help enlighten me!

    View attachment 461238 20180205_163233.jpg 20180205_162236.jpg 20180205_162212.jpg 20180205_162142.jpg 20180205_160445.jpg
     
  20. Peter A. Nunes

    Peter A. Nunes Moderator
    NAWCC Fellow NAWCC Member Sponsor

    Mar 3, 2006
    1,655
    16
    38
    Male
    Restorer of antique clocks.
    Rhode Island
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Why did you remove the back board?
     
  21. steamer471

    steamer471 Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Nov 2, 2013
    514
    97
    28
    Male
    Self employed
    Charlotte NC
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    It had already been done to apply the Terry label. Just to use my fingers to pull out two modern wire nails and out it came. I will fix that though.
     
  22. Peter A. Nunes

    Peter A. Nunes Moderator
    NAWCC Fellow NAWCC Member Sponsor

    Mar 3, 2006
    1,655
    16
    38
    Male
    Restorer of antique clocks.
    Rhode Island
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Very good, thanks.
     
  23. Sooth

    Sooth Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Feb 19, 2005
    3,899
    51
    48
    Cabinetmaker
    Cornwall, Ontario, Canada
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    This is a really excellent find (the cracked tablet wouldn't bother me). The top splat looks like a replacement. I can tell just from the front and top view, but the rear view would likely confirm this. It's a very nice replacement, but the original would have been stenciled to match the columns.
     
  24. steamer471

    steamer471 Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Nov 2, 2013
    514
    97
    28
    Male
    Self employed
    Charlotte NC
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Yes from what I have seen the tops on all these are stenciled but if this is a replacement it's a darn good job. Around the splat and the corner is where I see a lot of excess hot glue protruding from underneath. What do you think would be the best way to go about removing this? I was thinking a hair dryer slowly till I can scrape it off?
     
  25. Sooth

    Sooth Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Feb 19, 2005
    3,899
    51
    48
    Cabinetmaker
    Cornwall, Ontario, Canada
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Leaving the glue cold and rubbery is probably the best way to peel it off. Softening it will just make more of a mess.
     
  26. steamer471

    steamer471 Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Nov 2, 2013
    514
    97
    28
    Male
    Self employed
    Charlotte NC
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Yeah I just did some research that even alcohol will work but that is not good for the finish. I think now colder the better.
     
  27. rmarkowitz1_cee4a1

    rmarkowitz1_cee4a1 Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Nov 26, 2009
    5,325
    938
    113
    Country Flag:
    #27 rmarkowitz1_cee4a1, Feb 7, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2018
    I agree that the tablet is quite nice, period and appears to be original to the door. I also assume that the door is original to the case. However, and I admit that there are no absolutes, nevers and always, but that style of borderless reverse painted tablet is one I associate with clocks by the Terrys, not Whiting. For examples of what I'm referring to, see the clocks pictured in this thread:

    https://mb.nawcc.org/threads/this-is-an-8-day-wooden-works.73135/

    So, I don't believe that this was a Whiting clock, but probably by one of the Terry's. That's just what I speculate.

    Overall an attractive clock but as David Dickinson, the host of that BBC show "Bargain Hunters" used to say about some of the antiques found by the contestants on the show, "licorice all sorts" meaning it was a put together piece.

    Still, a good object to learn from. Even major museums have many objects like this which they place in their "teaching collections".

    RM
     
  28. steamer471

    steamer471 Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Nov 2, 2013
    514
    97
    28
    Male
    Self employed
    Charlotte NC
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Interesting. Being new to this I never considered how many ways these things can be manipulated. I'll definitely look closer at the case.
     
  29. Sooth

    Sooth Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Feb 19, 2005
    3,899
    51
    48
    Cabinetmaker
    Cornwall, Ontario, Canada
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Alcohol will melt the original shellac finish.
     
  30. David 62

    David 62 Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Nov 28, 2004
    391
    3
    18
    Are you sure that the splat was replaced?It looks good and you may want to leave it.
     
  31. steamer471

    steamer471 Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Nov 2, 2013
    514
    97
    28
    Male
    Self employed
    Charlotte NC
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    No I'm not sure the splat is original but I still think it looks good. I took a good look at the case today and everything matches and meshes as it should but the top has been at best poorly repaired. I'm posted some pics I took today of the top.

    20180208_130756.jpg 20180208_130810.jpg
     

Share This Page