Pretty Large Collection . . . . I think

[chadganderson]

My father passed away and left what I think is a very large antique pocket watch collection. I have been working on inventorying what we have, and have logged over 200 watches with years ranging from 1880s through 1920s. Elgin, Hamilton, Waltham, Illinois, Hampden, and Rockford. Sizes 12-18. Jewels 7-23. Most gold filled, but some gold, and some silver colored (don't know the material). I have 4 more boxes to log and am guessing the total number of watches will end up being around 700. It's a pretty time intensive process when I work full time and have a family. They are all polished nicely and I believe my father serviced them prior to bagging and boxing them. They have sat dormant for a few years though. I understand that it is tough to value pocket watches, but I have used the online pocket watch database to give myself some estimates, and they range from $80 to $1800 (I still have hundreds more to inventory).

My dad loved these watches and he had dreamed of opening a shop and selling them, but that didn't materialize before he passed. I believe he would have wanted me to maximize the value of the collection and would hope that they were sold to other people who love them the way that he did. Selfishly, I would like to maximize the value of these watches and possibly help pay for college for my kids. I am considering creating an eBay account and starting to sell them on there, but I don't feel like I know enough about the finer points of pocket watches to be able to list them with enough detail or answer enough questions of potential buyers. I also understand I would have a long road to build a reputation as a legit seller. Ideally, I could find someone to partner with who could help me out with some of this. I am also concerned about whether the watches will all need serviced before people are willing to buy them. I have checked a few of them and they wind and keep accurate time overnight. I guess my question is . . . . are there companies out there that specialize in consignment selling of pocket watches? Other than that, I am open to advice that anyone might have as to the best way to proceed with selling these.

 

[musicguy]

Welcome to the NAWCC Forum.

I am sorry to hear about your fathers passing.

Just a note we do not do any buying and selling on this forum.
Hopefully we can point you in the right direction.

My suggestion would be to contact one of our advertisers Jones Horan Horological Auctions
They can give you the best advice and then you can consign the watches with them
and they will sell them for you.
J&H Home Page (jones-horan.com)
how-to-consign (jones-horan.com)


Rob

 

[musicguy]

Look out for low ball offers for your entire collection .



Rob

 

[hc3]

Ebay will net you a far lower return even if you don't value your time at all. If you value your time, you will probably have a net loss through ebay.

Move the whole lot through Jones Horan.

 

[watchbob]

Unless you have the time & want to be on Ebay selling including taking pictures - doing descriptions - listing - boxing & etc etc - your better to consign them to a popular auction house ( I've sold on eBay since 1998 - 10,000 + sales - it's a lot of work & once in awhile a hassle )

 

[topspin]

There's some stuff here that will likely be of interest.

Watch Collection help

We inherited a bucket of pocket watches and cases from my husbands grandfather who used to repair them. He accumulated them over time and often was left with them when people never returned to get them or couldn’t pay or both. He died in his 90s way back in the mid-70s. Funny aside, he also sold...

mb.nawcc.org

Cataloging a collection?

I am ready to catalog my watch collection. Does anyone have a super-duper catalog software? I know about pocket-watch database, and I am handy with excel pages and can build a good page. So those of us who are concerned about our collection want fields like brand, signature,serial number our...

mb.nawcc.org

Dispersing a collection

I have recently seen a number of watches being auctioned off individually, which were part of the same "huge" collection. I assume the previous owner has recently died (or been made bankrupt.) The watches are well described and photographed. My first thought was of the "What makes a collection...

mb.nawcc.org

Regarding value of a given watch - if possible, check the Sold Listings of whichever outlet you are considering, for similar watches.

Unserviced watches and even non-runners, will still sell. In most cases it will make financial sense to just sell the watch "as is", and let the eventual buyer decide whether they want to start pumping time & money into it or whatever. What really makes a difference to the eventual sale price, is how well described and photographed they are.

 

[musicguy]

Every time I see one of these threads on this topic, I do think about my own
collection and what will happen to it. It does seem that in most cases (that are posted on our forum)
that the people who do inherit these large collections have no
clue as what to do with them(initially). We are leaving our heirs some major headache
problems if they are not watch collectors(or savy in selling). Especially if there
is a fair amount of value in the collection as a whole.

I have always done well on Ebay myself and I do believe that if a watch is listed
with a good title and photos and description it will be found and hit close to
market value. Yes eBay has high fees. But as I said above JH is best for the OP.



Rob

 

[MrRoundel]

It sounds like an extensive collection. If you don't have it already, one thing you may do before you talk to any real buyers is to buy a copy of the Complete Guide to Pocket Watches (Engle, Gilbert and Shugart). There may be a link on this page somewhere where you can purchase it (There used to be anyway.). In fact, I'd be shocked if your father doesn't have an edition or ten that you can look at.

 

[musicguy]

In fact, I'd be shocked if your father doesn't have an edition or ten that you can look at.

Maybe he was a member of the NAWCC or this forum?


Rob

 

[butlercreek]

I don’t know about y’all, but this is my greatest fear realized

 

[butlercreek]

Look out for low ball offers for your entire collection .



Rob

VERY GOOD ADVICE
I have two hobbies. I am a competitive high power shooter with the ranking of high master, which means I’ve been doing it a while, and I collect pocket watches, in the competitive rifle community It is the nicest friendliest group of people you’ll ever meet they give freely of their time their experience, and anything else you might need. in the pocket watch community I have met a considerable amount of shady characters that’s not to say there are some great people because there are it just seems like there’s an inordinate amount of shysters so be careful ………

 

[chadganderson]

Every time I see one of these threads on this topic, I do think about my own
collection and what will happen to it. It does seem that in most cases (that are posted on our forum)
that the people who do inherit these large collections have no
clue as what to do with them(initially). We are leaving our heirs some major headache
problems if they are not watch collectors(or savy in selling). Especially if there
is a fair amount of value in the collection as a whole.

I have always done well on Ebay myself and I do believe that if a watch is listed
with a good title and photos and description it will be found and hit close to
market value. Yes eBay has high fees. But as I said above JH is best for the OP.



Rob

Thank you for the thoughtful responses and input on this. Your reply did prompt me to say that there may be some aspects to this that are a bit of a headache, but overall, I love that my dad did this. First, it makes me happy that he had this hobby and enjoyed it as much as he did. Second, even though I don't think I will ever come close to getting into all the intricacies of pocket watches, going through this stuff has given me an appreciation of what incredible machines these things are. Even though most of us carry supercomputers that contain the collective knowledge of humanity around in our pockets, it is actually more amazing to me that in the 1880s humans were producing these very accurate and intricate machines that have lasted 150 years. Dad never let me know if he had a favorite watch or even watch brand, but I plan to keep a handful from the collection around both as a tribute to him and because they really are pretty freakin' cool.

JH seems to be the consensus way to go. Now, if I use them for the entire collection, how to safely get 700 watches from Colorado to New Hampshire . . . .

 

[chadganderson]

It sounds like an extensive collection. If you don't have it already, one thing you may do before you talk to any real buyers is to buy a copy of the Complete Guide to Pocket Watches (Engle, Gilbert and Shugart). There may be a link on this page somewhere where you can purchase it (There used to be anyway.). In fact, I'd be shocked if your father doesn't have an edition or ten that you can look at.

Thank you for the advice. He did leave me a copy of the book, but I have never opened it, assuming it was out of date, and anything in it would likely be available and easier to access through pocketwatchdatabase.com. Sounds like I might have been mistaken on that front, though. I suppose that if I wanted to really get into the hobby, the book would be the best place to start to learn about gears and jewels and pins and springs and whatnot. Dad couldn't spell www, let alone use these forums, but I do think he was a member of NAWCC at some point, I am sure not an active member, since he was a bit anti-social as well.

 

[musicguy]

but I plan to keep a handful from the collection around both as a tribute to him and because they really are pretty freakin' cool.

how to safely get 700 watches from Colorado to New Hampshire . . . .

call them and ask how it works.


Rob

 

[Clint Geller]

Dear Chad,

To expand a bit on what others have already advised, unless you can do the work yourself, servicing, much less actually repairing pocket watches is more often than not a time consuming, money losing proposition unless the movement in question has very high value, say more than $1,000 not including the case. Also, beware of unknown watchmakers' off-the-cuff appraisals, as they often overvalue a customer's watches in order to justify their repair bills. Likewise, storefront jewelers' appraisals are worthless more often than not, because most of them don't really understand antique watches or the market for them.

The best place to sell your watches could depend in part on the kinds of watches your dad collected, and how interested most other collectors would be in them. It is important to understand that old pocket watches aren't "rare" just because they are old, and the pocket watch collecting community simply isn't large enough to readily absorb hordes of common, high production watches quickly. Given the size of your dad's collection, I'm guessing that most of it consists of relatively common, high production pieces. It may be that he had a few prize pieces that you may wish to handle separately, or even keep them for yourself.

Unless your dad really had an eye for quality, if you were to sell your entire collection to either a professional or an amateur dealer, or an auction house [yes, auction houses sometimes buy items, as well as receive consignments], which would be your easiest and quickest solution, you would probably be fortunate to receive forty percent of the potential retail price for it.

As already mentioned by others, eBay is a lot of work, it involves non-trivial eBay and paypal fees, and you will have all the joys of packing and shipping and dealing with the public. If you do decide to experiment with eBay if only to satisfy your curiosity, be sure to provide good clear pictures of the movement, the dial, and both the exterior and interior surfaces of the case that show all the case markings. Since you say you are not especially watch savvy, I would keep my written descriptions short and let my clear pictures do the talking for me. Weigh the solid gold watches and give the total weights, in grams, in your lot descriptions. If you do these things, then the more serious buyers mostly will know what you have, even if you don't, and they will bid accordingly.

If you decide to consign your collection to an auction house, which is what I would recommend, be aware of the following. First, many auction houses have both a sellers fee and a buyers fee, and many also are located in states that charge state sales tax. ALL of these fees, regardless of what they are called, come out of YOUR pocket, because unless a mistake is made, so called buyer's fees, as well as sales taxes, tend to reduce the hammer price. It is not uncommon for all of these fees together to comprise thirty or forty percent of the full retail value of the watch going into pockets other than yours. Second, you may be tempted to seek an auction house that allows reserve prices, but reserve prices are very double-edged swords, both because they tend to discourage bidding and because you may end up paying some or all of the fees on the reserve price, as if you were any other buyer. So, it is usually better to forego placing a reserve and risk your watch selling at a lower price. Third, you may wish to sell a really large collection over several auctions, as the American pocket watch market is thin and easily saturated. Fourth, you would be well advised to work with an auction house with a strong following and a good reputation among watch collectors. For all of these reasons, I endorse the recommendations of others here to choose Jones and Horan. They have no bogus "buyers premium" and no reserves, they are located in New Hampshire, which charges no state sales tax, they have a strong following and a sterling reputation among pocket watch collectors, their photography is good and their descriptions are thorough and honest, and they are very agreeable to deal with.

Bear one other thing in mind as you dispose of your dad's collection. To him it was more than just an investment. If he was like most other watch collectors whom I know, the collecting pastime gave him great entertainment, satisfaction, and possibly even joy. So don't be tempted to think him foolish for "investing" in pocket watches. Wealth accumulation was likely not why he collected. He enjoyed having the watches more than he enjoyed having the money he paid for them.

Good luck, and may your beloved dad rest in peace.

 

[Dave Coatsworth]

Now, if I use them for the entire collection, how to safely get 700 watches from Colorado to New Hampshire . . . .

Call them. I just helped someone in California send a collection of 2000 pocket watches to JH. You will find them to be very helpful through the entire process.

 

[MrRoundel]

Thank you for the advice. He did leave me a copy of the book, but I have never opened it, assuming it was out of date, and anything in it would likely be available and easier to access through pocketwatchdatabase.com. Sounds like I might have been mistaken on that front, though. I suppose that if I wanted to really get into the hobby, the book would be the best place to start to learn about gears and jewels and pins and springs and whatnot.

All of the editions contain a lot of information on pocket watches besides pricing. While the pricing changes over the years, the basic information stays the same. FWIW, my newest edition is a 2013. I occasionally write in updates when it applies to watches that I'm interested in. Again, it's a good starting point for learning at least a little bit about what you'll be selling, or turning over to someone else to sell.

You might also consider checking your local library to see what editions they have. I'm almost certain they will have at least a couple.

And you might want to run it by the folks on the forum before you decide which watches to keep. One bit of common collector knowledge is that you should buy, or perhaps keep, the best you can afford. Maybe reference the book, Ebay, pocketwatchdatabase.com, or(?), and then run them by us here. Either that or ask the folks at Jones-Horan, if that's what you decide to do for selling, which ones they'd keep if they were you. Good luck. Cheers.

 

[Leigh Callaway]

There is also the IRS 1099K to manage.

Understanding Your Form 1099-K | Internal Revenue Service (irs.gov)

Here is eBay's blurb:
Form 1099-K | eBay

 

[geno55]

Hi with out a doubt Jones and Horan, no buyers premium which will net you more plus worldwide customers. I sell on Ebay and also use Jones and Horan, prices can be very similar depending on the item.

 

[chadganderson]

There is also the IRS 1099K to manage.

Understanding Your Form 1099-K | Internal Revenue Service (irs.gov)

Here is eBay's blurb:
Form 1099-K | eBay

Thanks for the heads up on this one. I am not a tax expert, but my understanding is that as an inheritance, I would only have to pay taxes on the increase in value from the time of death until I sell them. Dad's been gone for nearly 4 years, and I am just now getting around to looking at these, but the problem is I have no idea what they are worth now, let alone what they were worth in 2019.

 

[bruce linde]

As already mentioned by others, eBay is a lot of work, it involves non-trivial eBay and paypal fees, and you will have all the joys of packing and shipping and dealing with the public. If you do decide to experiment with eBay if only to satisfy your curiosity, be sure to provide good clear pictures of the movement, the dial, and both the exterior and interior surfaces of the case that show all the case markings. Since you say you are not especially watch savvy, I would keep my written descriptions short and let my clear pictures do the talking for me. Weigh the solid gold watches and give the total weights, in grams, in your lot descriptions. If you do these things, then the more serious buyers mostly will know what you have, even if you don't, and they will bid accordingly.

don't forget sellers' fees.... and in any dispute, ebay will almost always side with the buyer. you can say 'no returns', but then the buyer gets refunded and gets to keep the item... UNLESS you are very diligent and take tons of photos (including of the packing for shipment process). here's the verbiage i add to my ebay ads:

NOTE: all shipments are documented thoroughly with photos of each item and how it's packed. In case of any dispute requiring resolution by eBay, shipment documentation will be shared with eBay.

it can work, but is not quite as straightforward as it's touted to be.

 

[179]

Thanks for the heads up on this one. I am not a tax expert, but my understanding is that as an inheritance, I would only have to pay taxes on the increase in value from the time of death until I sell them. Dad's been gone for nearly 4 years, and I am just now getting around to looking at these, but the problem is I have no idea what they are worth now, let alone what they were worth in 2019.

Anything you can do would involve a professional appraiser, or identifying and researching values your self . Sold listings are one avenue on ebay, another is J&h auction archives, many back years are listed. Things are worth what a willing buyer and a willing seller agree on. Either method will involve a lot of time, and is said time is money. From what i have seen since 2019 common items are down around 35 %, better items maybe 10-15%. You have a difficult situation on hand, but if the understanding you posted is correct you might be OK. You have received good suggestions from the posters on this thread. Best of luck on your quest.

 

[geno55]

Hi with out a doubt Jones and Horan, no buyers premium which will net you more plus worldwide customers. I sell on Ebay and also use Jones and Horan, prices can be very similar depending on the item.

Jones and Horan do not issue 1099's

 

[mikeh]

Dad never let me know if he had a favorite watch or even watch brand, but I plan to keep a handful from the collection around both as a tribute to him and because they really are pretty freakin' cool.

So, sounds you're hooked to me!

I bought a watch at an antique store because it was only about 40 bucks and it reminded me of the one my grandfather wore. Next thing I know I find out there's price guide, and it told about the mechanics (hooked), and that there's a collector's organization, then ebay came along, etc. Now I'm in the same position as everyone else... wondering what my heirs are going to do with these things. But you know what... it's been 25 years and I still love them like day one. Enjoy!

 

[watchbob]

So, sounds you're hooked to me!

I bought a watch at an antique store because it was only about 40 bucks and it reminded me of the one my grandfather wore. Next thing I know I find out there's price guide, and it told about the mechanics (hooked), and that there's a collector's organization, then ebay came along, etc. Now I'm in the same position as everyone else... wondering what my heirs are going to do with these things. But you know what... it's been 25 years and I still love them like day one. Enjoy!

Sounds exactly like my collecting story except my mother-in-law bought my 1st one for me & it's been 35+ yrs