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Premature cuculation?

aitchgee

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Feb 5, 2013
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Me cuckoo comes out too soon and I can’t stop it! (Heaven only knows what that Texan fellow is going to say…)​
I’m not sure how the thing is really meant to operate, never having seen it working properly (or, indeed at all). But if I adjust the system so that the cuckoo comes out fully and goes back after it’s done its business, then as the hour or half hour approaches it sneaks forward and is coming out the half open door before the time comes. Maybe that’s usual.​
Referring to the picture, as lever A is lifted by the pin on the minute wheel, so it gradually moves the lever B assembly, which in turn bears on the pin in the cuckoo post. I can see it’s necessary to adjust the vertical part of lever B to delay it acting on the cuckoo post as late as possible, but that still result in an early showing of the cuckoo. I would like it to burst out suddenly at the very last moment!​
Any views, gentlemen?​
 

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Patch

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It sounds like, that the lever, that throws the bird rod forward, is slightly out of adjustment. When the clock stops striking, place your finger on the countwheel lever, and very slightly adjust the lever that throws the bird rod forward, toward the case wall. It'll be a slight bend.
If that doesn't work, check, that the wire that connects the birds perch, to the door, isn't too long.
 

shutterbug

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Sounds to me that the warning run is activating the bird. You need to adjust the GP stop position so it stops as soon as the last call is made. That will allow the warning run to activate without the bird moving.
 

aitchgee

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Feb 5, 2013
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Sounds to me that the warning run is activating the bird. You need to adjust the GP stop position so it stops as soon as the last call is made. That will allow the warning run to activate without the bird moving.
Much here I don't really understand, I'm afraid. The warning run is when the bronze lever (B) lifts enough for the pin to drop off it and let the wheel run briefly until it is stopped again by a lever connected with lever A in my picture, isn't it? I've never understood why it's designed that way. The GP stop position? If you could explain more, I'd appreciate it. Sorry to be so ignorant. What you say does sound to be getting at the problem.
 

Chris D

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You need to adjust this with the movement installed and the bird connected to the door.

There needs to be some daylight between the verical lever B (that pulls in to push the bird out) and the pin (as you called it) that pushes out the bird. You will need to bend lever B out so when it goes into warning it doesn't touch the "pin". But bending it out too far will cause the bird to not come out as far as you want. It's a fine adjustment, but just keep cycling it and adjusting until you get it right.

Chris
 

aitchgee

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Thanks. I think I haven't been subtle enough in my adjustments.
I see now that GP stands for gathering pallet. Don't think I've got one of those as it's not a rack mechanism.
 

shutterbug

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Thanks. I think I haven't been subtle enough in my adjustments.
I see now that GP stands for gathering pallet. Don't think I've got one of those as it's not a rack mechanism.
Ooops. Sorry, you're correct, that's an older movement.
 

aitchgee

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I’m still stuck, I’m sorry to say. I can’t get an adjustment that doesn’t cause the cuckoo to start to emerge before the strike and at the same time gets it out of the door properly when it does strike. There doesn’t seem to be enough range.​
The picture shows the train at rest, with the pin on the wheel held by the bronze lever (I know this will be completely familiar to most/all of you, but it’s probably best if I try and explain in my own terms. Please bear with me.) Lever A is directly connected to the lever that is lifted by the minute wheel - they move as one. Lever A , as it rises, bears on the bronze lever and lifts it above the pin. The wheel then runs a fraction of a turn until the pin is stopped by hitting Lever A. From that point, a good deal of movement of Lever A is required until the train is free to run, and all that movement results in the vertical part of lever B moving the cuckoo post.
Seems to me what should be happening is that train be released straight away and the heart wheel would then raise Lever B some more, enough to operate the cuckoo post correctly. I’m definitely confused. Can anyone set me straight?​
Incidentally, when I received the clock, the train ran continuously, as the bronze lever was worn at the end. I soldered a piece on the end, having first milled it back. I think the dimensions remained the same- but this may be relevant information.
I may just have to give up and accept the early appearance of the bird.
 

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shutterbug

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What I said before still applies to your case - the warning run is too long, or the shut off is too late. You might have to move the inner wheel position to adjust it, but that's the issue me thinks. Watch it in action. If the train doesn't stop exactly when the last call completes, it needs to be adjusted so it does. If that means moving a gear, then that's what it means :)
 

Chris D

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Check the postion of the vertical rod B, you may need to adjust it to be closer to the front of the movement. The closer it is to the front will allow you to have more space between B and the pin and still have enough travel to open the door completely. Here's a pic of one of mine. Only problem is you can't see the 1/8"+ gag between the two. Maybe you could post a similar pic of yours.
P3039293 copy.jpg
 

aitchgee

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I entirely get what you're saying- the nearer the post end of the pin the vertical rod touches, the greater movement it will produce. I had done that. No, there is clearly something else, more serious, wrong and it's frustrating that I can't undertsand it- and that others are trying to explain it to me! I can set it out a little better and in a bit more detail: as it's set up, in order to free the train, lever B has to be raised almost as high as it gets later lifted by the rotating cam or heart wheel. That means its vertical rod, naturally, is moving the cuckoo nearly as far forward before the strike as it is during the strike. This seems to happen because once the bronze lever B is lifted far enough to free the pin, the wheel rotates and then the pin stops against lever A in my last picture. Lever A then has to be lifted quite a way before the train is freed and of course that lifts lever B and moves the bird.I can't think that's right. I should also have mentioned before that this also results in the bird making a sort of false start- it slowly emerges, then gets promptly withdrawn and starts the proper number of calls. That's because once the train starts to run, the bronze lever drops back and lets the bird return. I think I'm beginning to grasp what's happening, but how it should be fixed is another matter. I await a eureka moment!
In answer to shutterbug (to whom thanks, of course) I'm pretty sure it stops at the end of the call as it should: the lever drops down the radial notch on the heart wheel and immediately stops the pin on the wheel above.
 

Chris D

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Great, thanks. Were you able to adjust the vertical B so that the bird does not make a premature apperance? if so, what happened? did the bird not come out when it was supposed to?
 

aitchgee

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No, either it comes out early or not enough. My post #11 explains as well as I can. I don't think it's this adjustment that's the problem. I need to understand better what's supposed to happen with the release.
 

Chris D

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Okay, I am just going from my own experiences with this problem, which I have encountered a few times before. From my experience there is always some inward movement on B when the movement goes into warning, which you can offset by moving vertical B out a little. You may have something else affecting yours. Possibly it's lifting too much to start warning, it only needs to lift enough to release the pin. Wish I could help more.

Chris
 

aitchgee

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Feb 5, 2013
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Okay, I am just going from my own experiences with this problem, which I have encountered a few times before. From my experience there is always some inward movement on B when the movement goes into warning, which you can offset by moving vertical B out a little. You may have something else affecting yours. Possibly it's lifting too much to start warning, it only needs to lift enough to release the pin. Wish I could help more.

Chris
Nice of you to keep thinking about this- I appreciate it. I think it's all to do with the release. As I said earlier, I had to repair the bronze lever, which was worn away where the pin struck it, and although I thought I kept to the original dimension quite well, something has gone out of kilter. I am looking at it more closely and trying the effect of minor changes to the assembly and adjustments, having overcome my reluctance to dismantle it (yet) again. I'm becoming more expert at assembling it and getting a slightly better idea of what's supposed to happen.
Basically, I think after the train is released by lifting the bronze lever, the heart/cam wheel should lift the lever still further, which moves the bird out. I think in my case the train isn't released until the lever is at its full height, so no more movement takes place. Rereadoing your post, that's pretty much what you said, isn't it?
I wouldn't mind confirmation/contradiction of this theory!
I'll persist and let you know how I get on. Thanks again.
Henry
 

Chris D

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Sep 8, 2009
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I think you're close to having it. I believe what should happen is: as the minute hand cam turns and lifts A, it will lift B and the bronze lever (this is the premature cuckoo appearance). As it lifts it will release the pin on the wheel (once it releases it doesn't need to lift any farther), the pin should then be immediately caught by another lever from A (usually a wire with a hump that rides next to the "heart/cam"). Once A falls off of the minute hand cam, it will release the pin and the heart/cam will lift B/ bronze lever to swing out the bird and begin striking. Hope that helps.

Chris
 

aitchgee

Registered User
Feb 5, 2013
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Surrey, UK
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I think you're close to having it. I believe what should happen is: as the minute hand cam turns and lifts A, it will lift B and the bronze lever (this is the premature cuckoo appearance). As it lifts it will release the pin on the wheel (once it releases it doesn't need to lift any farther), the pin should then be immediately caught by another lever from A (usually a wire with a hump that rides next to the "heart/cam"). Once A falls off of the minute hand cam, it will release the pin and the heart/cam will lift B/ bronze lever to swing out the bird and begin striking. Hope that helps.

Chris
I think it helps a great deal- I can't check right now as I have to go out. I didn't realise A would fall off the minute hand cam, lower the hump, and release the pin that way. I have been seeing the wire with the hump being lifted yet more until the pin falls off the bottom of it. What you say makes sense and must be right. It may be that simple adjustment of A assembly is all that's needed.I'll report back. Thanks again.
 

aitchgee

Registered User
Feb 5, 2013
32
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Surrey, UK
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I think you're close to having it. I believe what should happen is: as the minute hand cam turns and lifts A, it will lift B and the bronze lever (this is the premature cuckoo appearance). As it lifts it will release the pin on the wheel (once it releases it doesn't need to lift any farther), the pin should then be immediately caught by another lever from A (usually a wire with a hump that rides next to the "heart/cam"). Once A falls off of the minute hand cam, it will release the pin and the heart/cam will lift B/ bronze lever to swing out the bird and begin striking. Hope that helps.

Chris
Yep, that fixed it. Once you'd made me see how it was supposed to work, then it was obvious and simple. Thanks again!
Cheers,
Henry
 

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