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postmans clock
- Thread starter erronagh
- Start date
Kevin W.
NAWCC Member
Post some pictures and i am sure someone will be able to give you some help.
Welcome to the NAWCC Message Board erronagh.
If your "postman's" clock is the type with the striking or alarm wheel train in the rear and the time train in front and the entire clock is held away from the wall by three small pegs or "stools," then the pendulum length is usually long, almost three feet in length and of thin wire. A small bob of a few ounces often the size of a cheap watch case or a thin disc less than three inches in diameter is just about all these old clocks can swing.
The pendulum rod is usually suspended from a formed wire kind of affair pressed into the peg or stool at the top of the back side of the clock. The pendulum wire is threaded through the loop of the verge crutch.
Where did you get the idea that your clock was a "postman's" clock?
If your "postman's" clock is the type with the striking or alarm wheel train in the rear and the time train in front and the entire clock is held away from the wall by three small pegs or "stools," then the pendulum length is usually long, almost three feet in length and of thin wire. A small bob of a few ounces often the size of a cheap watch case or a thin disc less than three inches in diameter is just about all these old clocks can swing.
The pendulum rod is usually suspended from a formed wire kind of affair pressed into the peg or stool at the top of the back side of the clock. The pendulum wire is threaded through the loop of the verge crutch.
Where did you get the idea that your clock was a "postman's" clock?
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many thanks for your valuable help ive seen them advertised in england as postman clocks tom
-> posts merged by system <-
-> posts merged by system <-
many thanks for help veritas tomPost some pictures and i am sure someone will be able to give you some help.
Nobler
Registered User
From Europe I can add the following. In the 19th century the people from the German Black Forest became very adept exporting their clocks and changing them to the taste and needs of their intended international customers. They found for example that the English liked stark and traditional dials, while the French farmers (who could not afford the better quality Comtoise clocks, to must have been poor people) loved dials with bright, almost screaming colors. They were also very good imitators. Some of their clocks look just like the then current Comtoise clocks. In the same way they imitated the popular English and French pub- or schoolclocks, i.e. clocks with a round white (metal) dial surrounded by a round wooden rim. While the majority of Black Forest clocks had striking, the cheaper clocks often only had an alarm. Other clocks that only have an alarm (for example clocks from the region around the Belgian city of Luik), were called 'maid-clocks', supposing that the 'boss' wanted his personel to get up in time to make his breakfast, and therefor supplying an alarmclock, on which he however did not want to spend to much. Black Forest clocks in the school- or pubclock form that only had an alarm are mostly called 'postman's alarm', supposingly meant for the Postman Pat of the 19th century. Most of these were intended for the Brittish market, hence their English name. So it's only called like this if it lacks a striking movement. The clock that was mentioned in an earlier reply (with the striking and time movements behind each other and long pendulum) therefore is, strictly in my vocabulary, not a Postmans Clock (or more correctly: Postman's Alarm). Most of them had the small and cheap 'Schotten' movement and a pendulum of about one foot.
The Message Board is amazing.
Nobler writes, "Other clocks that only have an alarm (for example clocks from the region around the Belgian city of Luik), were called 'maid-clocks', supposing that the 'boss' wanted his personel to get up in time to make his breakfast, and therefor supplying an alarmclock, on which he however did not want to spend to much."
Here and only here do we learn that the "Postman's Clock" was also exported to the low countries as "weckers" as well as Great Britain. And as Nobler writes, in Belgium, the purpose was to awaken the servants; a purpose I have thought for many years was the same as in England; that is, to awaken the servants and not to announce the hour for the letter carrier.
I have never accepted the term "Postman's Clock" to have an association with the British post office or letter carriers; it just does not make sense.
I believe the reference to postman was an association with the stable hand who was to have the master's horse to "the post" at the appointed hour.
Thank you Nobler and the best of 2012 to you and all
Nobler writes, "Other clocks that only have an alarm (for example clocks from the region around the Belgian city of Luik), were called 'maid-clocks', supposing that the 'boss' wanted his personel to get up in time to make his breakfast, and therefor supplying an alarmclock, on which he however did not want to spend to much."
Here and only here do we learn that the "Postman's Clock" was also exported to the low countries as "weckers" as well as Great Britain. And as Nobler writes, in Belgium, the purpose was to awaken the servants; a purpose I have thought for many years was the same as in England; that is, to awaken the servants and not to announce the hour for the letter carrier.
I have never accepted the term "Postman's Clock" to have an association with the British post office or letter carriers; it just does not make sense.
I believe the reference to postman was an association with the stable hand who was to have the master's horse to "the post" at the appointed hour.
Thank you Nobler and the best of 2012 to you and all
ludovictrarieux
New User
When I was in Angleterre, I found many clocks told to me to be postmans alarm, and I was told that they were different from the wag clocks that had alarm fittings. The normal wags that I was shown had long balanciers and glass doors. The clocks Les Englais showed me, and said were postmans alarms, had glass faces, some times with two colours, and short balancier.
They are not common in la France, but sometimes some are found with Alsace makers names, and often called wooden comtoise movements.
amitiés, Jacques Lepousse, La Gironde.
They are not common in la France, but sometimes some are found with Alsace makers names, and often called wooden comtoise movements.
amitiés, Jacques Lepousse, La Gironde.
Nobler
Registered User
Where the term 'postman's clock' originates from can never be determined for certain. Most of the clock's I have seen however, date from the 1880-1920 period, a time when stablehands became less common, and postmen more and more common ...
Also terms like this are never exclusive and often mis-used by many people with too little knowledge ... I doubt very much that these Postman's Alarms were restricted to stables or postoffices. By the way, I think lots of 'maid's clocks' were used by other people than maids ...
Like 'postman's alarm' it's just a term to describe a style of clock. Glass or no glass to me is not important to determine a Postman's alarm. What is, is that it should concern a clock without striking, but with alarm (as is the case with the 'maid-clock'), mosttimes with a round white dial with wooden rim. Maybe the term was introduced when these clocks used to have a glass face, but should the term not be used for the same style of clocks that were made some years later, without the glass?
Also terms like these can be differently used from country to country. A large portion of the woodplate clocks made in the BF in de 19th century had a lacquered wooden faceplate. Because of that they are called Lackschilduhren (= lacquered dial clocks). But in my country, we use to call these clocks Appelklokken (apple clocks). Maybe this is because in the arch above the dial of the clocks intended for the Dutch market according to the books I read, often apples and other fruit were painted, but out of all the clocks I've seen in my country, I only saw one or to with painted fruit. My own theory is that my countrymen mistook the Peony roses that were more often painted in the arch for apples (the both look round and shiny), and/or because of the German name for Peony rose: Apfelrose (= apple rose). This causes difficulty for Dutch people if they want to name a 'Lackschilduhr' that has something else than a Peony rose painted in the arch. Can it still be called Appelklok? Most people do. Even Postman's Alarm-style clocks are called Appelklok overhere, as is mostly anything with a woodplate movement from the BF, though 'Schwarzwalder' (= originating from the Black Forest) is most common. That includes all the clocks from the 20th century however, most of which don't have woodplate movements.
It's difficult sometimes, but in any case nothing to fight about!
Also terms like this are never exclusive and often mis-used by many people with too little knowledge ... I doubt very much that these Postman's Alarms were restricted to stables or postoffices. By the way, I think lots of 'maid's clocks' were used by other people than maids ...
Like 'postman's alarm' it's just a term to describe a style of clock. Glass or no glass to me is not important to determine a Postman's alarm. What is, is that it should concern a clock without striking, but with alarm (as is the case with the 'maid-clock'), mosttimes with a round white dial with wooden rim. Maybe the term was introduced when these clocks used to have a glass face, but should the term not be used for the same style of clocks that were made some years later, without the glass?
Also terms like these can be differently used from country to country. A large portion of the woodplate clocks made in the BF in de 19th century had a lacquered wooden faceplate. Because of that they are called Lackschilduhren (= lacquered dial clocks). But in my country, we use to call these clocks Appelklokken (apple clocks). Maybe this is because in the arch above the dial of the clocks intended for the Dutch market according to the books I read, often apples and other fruit were painted, but out of all the clocks I've seen in my country, I only saw one or to with painted fruit. My own theory is that my countrymen mistook the Peony roses that were more often painted in the arch for apples (the both look round and shiny), and/or because of the German name for Peony rose: Apfelrose (= apple rose). This causes difficulty for Dutch people if they want to name a 'Lackschilduhr' that has something else than a Peony rose painted in the arch. Can it still be called Appelklok? Most people do. Even Postman's Alarm-style clocks are called Appelklok overhere, as is mostly anything with a woodplate movement from the BF, though 'Schwarzwalder' (= originating from the Black Forest) is most common. That includes all the clocks from the 20th century however, most of which don't have woodplate movements.
It's difficult sometimes, but in any case nothing to fight about!
Kevin W.
NAWCC Member
Thanks Nobler and others, all interesting information.I am learning alot reading the posts.
soaringjoy
Registered User
Oh, yes, the language problem; we have had lots of
fun with that.
Actually, and according to the book by Mühe, Kahlert, Techen "Wecker",
published by Deutsches Uhrenmuseum Furtwangen, the term "postman's alarm"
was adopted by the British consumers and they were most common
merchandise there until 1914.
In Germany, the clocks were simply a variation of the "Schottenwecker",
a Schotten movement with an alarm.
It is also correct, that most postman's alarms were built with the plain,
round, wooden frame, often with glass dials and without a strike.
It is estimated, that through the years 1870 - 1880, ca. 2 millionen
Schottenwecker were built each year in the BF region.
In Germany, these large alarm clocks were often praised as clocks for
businesses and authorities. Baker's and govt. worker's clocks, so to
speak, as proposed i.e. by A. Sauer clock factory, Mühlheim.
Major producers, such as PHS and LFS made them and the latter even
had patents on them. Some had a center setting dial, others had a long
setting hand.
But, and here I go again, make no mistake about it, the clock style was
made in several varieties at the same time, also including striking clocks,
some even with a 1/4 strike. A LFS catalogue from ca. 1920 lists seven
different models.
So, as often, there is no absolute rule.
Where did I start? Oh, yes, language.
Servant's alarm clocks were called "Bediensteten Wecker" here, but with
a different meaning, when considering a maid's alarm clock.
Over here, those alarm clocks were triggered from the master's bedroom
by pull string... on his demand.
The pic shows a typical postman's alarm (LFS). The bell was struck
by two rotating centrifugical balls from the inside.
Jurgen
fun with that.
Actually, and according to the book by Mühe, Kahlert, Techen "Wecker",
published by Deutsches Uhrenmuseum Furtwangen, the term "postman's alarm"
was adopted by the British consumers and they were most common
merchandise there until 1914.
In Germany, the clocks were simply a variation of the "Schottenwecker",
a Schotten movement with an alarm.
It is also correct, that most postman's alarms were built with the plain,
round, wooden frame, often with glass dials and without a strike.
It is estimated, that through the years 1870 - 1880, ca. 2 millionen
Schottenwecker were built each year in the BF region.
In Germany, these large alarm clocks were often praised as clocks for
businesses and authorities. Baker's and govt. worker's clocks, so to
speak, as proposed i.e. by A. Sauer clock factory, Mühlheim.
Major producers, such as PHS and LFS made them and the latter even
had patents on them. Some had a center setting dial, others had a long
setting hand.
But, and here I go again, make no mistake about it, the clock style was
made in several varieties at the same time, also including striking clocks,
some even with a 1/4 strike. A LFS catalogue from ca. 1920 lists seven
different models.
So, as often, there is no absolute rule.
Where did I start? Oh, yes, language.
Servant's alarm clocks were called "Bediensteten Wecker" here, but with
a different meaning, when considering a maid's alarm clock.
Over here, those alarm clocks were triggered from the master's bedroom
by pull string... on his demand.
The pic shows a typical postman's alarm (LFS). The bell was struck
by two rotating centrifugical balls from the inside.
Jurgen
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I like the wag clocks, so I had a look at my uncle's 1975 copy of De Carle's Encyclopedia. His description of postmans alarm; 30hr; weight driven:circular dial; long pendulum..... and finishes up saying "usually of Dutch origin". no diagram is shown.
uncle wants to know if anyone has an up to date edition, and if the description has changed. Was De Carle wrong?
uncle wants to know if anyone has an up to date edition, and if the description has changed. Was De Carle wrong?
soaringjoy
Registered User
Let's say, De Carle was "mistaken".
Postman's alarm clocks were available with 30hr (1 day) and 8 day movements.
Some English speakers have a tendancy, to consider "Dutch" (Netherlands) and
"Deutsch" (Germany) the same thing.
Jurgen
ballistarius
Registered User
It is a common (and even accepted) American blunder: When a German said 'Deutsch', it was understood as 'Dutch'
Aitor
Aitor
soaringjoy
Registered User
The patented "revolving ball" alarm was also used in some bracket clocks with massive, full-metal movements, of which we now have two examples, see our standing LFS thread, posts # 55 ff., or click here
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