Post Your W. Würth & Co. Clocks Here

Discussion in '400-Day & Atmos' started by Chick Curry, Apr 4, 2007.

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  1. Kamil Urbanowicz

    Kamil Urbanowicz Registered User

    Aug 17, 2010
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    Re: Anniversary clock with interesting pendulum.

    Any idea what pendulum should it have? And what was the suspension bracket with sadle? Anyone know where I found piictures of a newer Wurth clock (with higher numbers)?

    Regards
    Kamil
     
  2. Ada

    Ada Registered User

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    Re: Anniversary clock with interesting pendulum.

    Hi Kamil, I believe this is what your suspension bracket should look like. I think it is a Kienzle bracket.

    Adrian.
     

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  3. etmb61

    etmb61 Registered User
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    Re: Anniversary clock with interesting pendulum.

    Hi Kamil,

    Earlier you posted a Wurth 21984. I think this one should have the same bracket.

    Eric
     
  4. Kamil Urbanowicz

    Kamil Urbanowicz Registered User

    Aug 17, 2010
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    Re: Anniversary clock with interesting pendulum.

    I think that it was a standard Kienzle one used here as it got broken screws which we see on last picture from post #250 (or someone durinng time changed it ?). But what about the pendulum - does anyone got pictures of a Wurth clock with higher serial number?
     
  5. etmb61

    etmb61 Registered User
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    Re: Anniversary clock with interesting pendulum.

    Look at his post #133 in this thread. It shows clock number 24162.

    Eric
     
  6. Kamil Urbanowicz

    Kamil Urbanowicz Registered User

    Aug 17, 2010
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    Re: Anniversary clock with interesting pendulum.

    Thanks Eric for pointing the right post - and I see that it got pendulum exactly like a standard early Kienzle one. Wonder how clock 24341 that John have the picture of looks like and what type of pendulum and bracket it got

    Kamil
     
  7. Ingulphus

    Ingulphus Registered User

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    An early Wurth, almost complete

    This clock is almost identical to MartinM's in post #143/145 in this thread, but lacking the dial, the minute hand, the Bowler & Burdick label, and any manufacturer's stamp on the base. It also does not have the square pediments at the base of the pillars. The top finial is present, but the screws have been sheared off in their holes, so a long soak in alum is indicated. One of the pillar finials has a bent thread to it as well, which I can hopefully (and carefully) bend back to a straight position when the time comes to restore the clock.

    The back plate (#1009 in the Guide) is marked "ANNIVERSARY | TRADEMARK REGISTERED". The base has several cracks in the brass, although I hope that a high polish might visually minimize the damage. I'm guessing that the method of forming a thin brass cover over a shaped wooden base is prone to this kind of stress cracking; it would be interesting to know how long B&B used these bases before switching to a different style or manufacturer.

    The serial number is 7731, which is also stamped on the pendulum's tin cover. The pendulum has guide slots for the weights, and an internal, removable steel disk, which is lacking in some of my other Wurth pendulums (making it necessary to thin a .004 spring to bring the clocks to time.

    There are lightly penciled dates on the wooden underside of the base: "9/8/09", "Sold June 19, 1910" and three letters which could be a salesman's initials; these are somewhat difficult to read because of the grain of the wood. There are three hemispherical brass feet.

    There is purple velveteen or velour covering the base and surrounded by a removable brass rim. The color of the fabric under the pendulum is unfaded, and the interior brass is relatively bright, so the clock had sat somewhere with the pendulum sitting on the base under the dome (which was smashed in shipping, of course) for some time.

    I'm assuming this would have a paper or celluloid dial marked Anniversary (unless the dial on MartinM's clock was a paper copy of an original dial), but if one doesn't turn up eventually, I'll use a spare porcelain enamel replacement as a placeholder.

    The first photo is to show the smaller base on the Wurth relative to a "normal" base.

    Wurth comparison.jpg Back.jpg Pendulum cover.jpg Pendulum interior.jpg
     
  8. John Hubby

    John Hubby Principal Administrator
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    #259 John Hubby, Sep 27, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 31, 2017
    Re: Anniversary clock with interesting pendulum.

    Kamil, thanks for posting the photos of your Würth clock. It is in rough condition but certainly worth restoring.

    Adrian has correctly identified the upper suspension bracket that was originally with your clock. It is the Kienzle version of the Huber "C" gimbal bracket, that has the same gimbal as shown on bracket No. 15 (which was exclusively for JUF) mounted on a bracket identical to the one shown for No. 18. I call this bracket No. 18C. You will have to find a replacement from another movement; the Kienzle version is an exact fit and aren't difficult to find.

    The pendulum for most of the late production Würth clocks was first patented in 1907, and is a varian of an earlier pendulum patented in 1904. The main difference is the gallery design, the 1904 version having a heavier and shorter gallery compared to the 1907 version. In 1909, the bottom cover for the disc was modified so it could be held in place by a nut screwed to the pendulum center shaft. This prevents loss of the cover which was a problem because the earlier version was simply a press fit to the disc. Here are photos of the correct pendulum version used from 1909 through end of production in 1910:
    23670 Pend Side.jpg 23670 Pend Btm-SN.jpg
    This pendulum design was adopted by Kienzle in early 1909 and used as their standard disc pendulum from that time until they sold the business to Kern & Link in 1929.

    I believe the hands on your clock are replacements, they are not long enough to match the dial chapter ring. Also they would normally be of the spade and pointer design.

    The rest of the clock appears to be original including the base, dial, and movement support pillars and plate. Good luck with your restoration and keep us posted on your progress.

    23670 Pend Side.jpg 23670 Pend Btm-SN.jpg
     
  9. John Hubby

    John Hubby Principal Administrator
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    #260 John Hubby, Sep 27, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 31, 2017
    Re: An early Wurth, almost complete

    Mark, thanks for posting your "project clock" Würth for B&B. A good bit of work there but it will clean up well.

    Your clock was made among a rather large batch of clocks for Bowler & Burdick about 2nd quarter 1906. The base for this one is a specific B&B model described in their 1906 catalog as "B.B. Globe Case on Brass, Velvet Center", so I think the base is original. The missing dial could have been celluloid but also could have been enamel. The three clocks immediately following yours in my data are the exact same model, all have 2-1/4 inch diameter dials, one is celluloid and two are enamel. All three have "Anniversary Trade Mark Registered" imprinted.

    Your pendulum is the earlier version I mentioned in my reply to Kamil regarding his project clock Würth. If you will compare the design of the gallery it is definitely heavier construction, shorter, and somewhat larger diameter than the one that would have been on his clock.
     
  10. Ingulphus

    Ingulphus Registered User

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    #261 Ingulphus, Sep 27, 2014
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2014
    Re: An early Wurth, almost complete

    John -

    Thank you! I do have a spare 2.5" porcelain enamel dial which fits and looks appropriate, so that will serve as a placeholder until an "Anniversary" dial comes along - now I just have to locate the right size hands.

    Best regards,

    Mark
     
  11. Kamil Urbanowicz

    Kamil Urbanowicz Registered User

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    Re: An early Wurth, almost complete

    Thank You John for pointing the proper pendulum for this clock.

    Here is some other pictures of other WURTH clock I have. Serial Number is 2899 (on movement and underneath the pendulum). What would be the dat of production of it?

    Sadly missing hour hand and one big arm of the pendulum - anyone have this parts for spares or exchange :)


    DSC01458.JPG DSC01465.JPG DSC01464.JPG DSC01463.JPG DSC01462.JPG DSC01461.JPG DSC01460.JPG DSC01456.JPG DSC01457.JPG DSC01466.JPG DSC01468.JPG DSC01469.JPG DSC01470.JPG DSC01471.JPG DSC01472.JPG DSC01473.JPG DSC01474.JPG DSC01475.JPG DSC01467.JPG DSC01477.JPG
     
  12. John Hubby

    John Hubby Principal Administrator
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    #263 John Hubby, Oct 20, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 31, 2017
    Re: An early Wurth, almost complete

    Kamil, thanks very much for posting the photos of your Würth clock. Based on the serial number this one was made about third quarter 1904.

    The No. 20 pendulum is correct for the clock as seen by the matching serial number. While DRGM 215537 for this design was granted on 16 December 1903, there is no DRGM stamp found on any of these until serial number 3300 made in 4th quarter 1904. The earliest documented No. 20 serial number is 1206, likely made just after the DRGM was granted. This pendulum and all those documented to date up to No. 3300 do not have a bottom cover for the disc, but the movement serial number is stamped on a brass disc held into the main pendulum disc by a nut on the center shaft in the same manner as yours.

    Pendulum 3300 has the first press-fit bottom cover documented with a No. 20 pendulum, and virtually all of them after this number have the bottom cover. For these, the serial number is stamped into the cover, usually just underneath the letters "DRGM".

    For info, I have also found that none of the Wille patent No. 7 pendulums in my data have the bottom cover. The pendulum disc itself for these pendulums is identical to the disc for the No. 20 pendulums, except there are two additional holes in the disc needed for mounting the two temperature compensation mechanism posts to each side of the center post. There is a "lip" on all these No. 7 or No. 20 pendulums that would accommodate a press-fit bottom cover but so far none have been found.

    I don't know if the cover is missing from the No. 20 pendulums made before no. 3300 (quite possible as they were just a press fit) or they never had one. I am leaning toward the latter explanation, since I have also found that none of the Wille patent No. 7 pendulums in my data have the bottom cover even up to serial number 4149. Altogether I have some 40 clocks documented from the beginning of production in 3rd quarter 1903 right through 1904, and surely one or the other pendulum type would have a bottom cover within these examples prior to serial number 3300 if one were present originally.

    With regard to the missing part of your pendulum, unfortunately I don't have one of these. You may be able to find suitable hands from Meadows & Passmore in the UK. Good luck with finding the parts, I'll be looking for them as well.
     
  13. lokonelly

    lokonelly Registered User

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    400 day clock with Luis Wille pendulum

    :)Hello here in the Forum!:)
    In my second post I want to introduce you to a 400 day clock with Luis Wille compensating pendulum. The crown is not original. After Terwilliger is the plate 1049 from the jear 1906. On the back plate is the number of the Wille patent. I have my doubts. The dial plate has a screw anchor bridge, and the anchor has adjustable pallets. This look to me not look JUF. Maybe I can who help in the d DSCN4798_01.JPG DSCN4947.JPG DSCN4793.JPG RSCN4950.JPG etermination of origin and and the time here in the Forum.
    Thanks in advance and best regards from Salzburg. Willi.:)
     
  14. Heli

    Heli Registered User

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    #265 Heli, Jan 6, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 31, 2017
  15. lokonelly

    lokonelly Registered User

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    Re: 400 day clock with Luis Wille pendulum

    Hello!
    Here a picture from pendulum. Willi;) DSCN4945.JPG
     
  16. lokonelly

    lokonelly Registered User

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    #267 lokonelly, Jan 10, 2015
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    Re: An early Wurth, almost complete

    :)Hello here in the Forum!:)
    I think I have a 400 day clock from Würth with the Serial number 4896 on the backplate and on the Wille Pendulum.
    Unfortunately, the crown is not the original. I`m looking for the crown, and if he had a crown from Würth, I would very happy. Maybe I can in dating the clock who help. Please forgive my bad English. Thanks in advance Willi:) Jahresuhr(2399).JPG Jahresuhr(2433).JPG Jahresuhr(2398).JPG DSCN4978.JPG

    Jahresuhr(2399).JPG Jahresuhr(2433).JPG Jahresuhr(2398).JPG DSCN4978.JPG
     
  17. lokonelly

    lokonelly Registered User

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    Re: 400 day clock with Luis Wille pendulum

    Hello Mariusz!
    Many thanks for the help.:)Greetings from Austria Willi.
     
  18. John Hubby

    John Hubby Principal Administrator
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    #269 John Hubby, Jan 10, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 31, 2017
    Re: 400 day clock with Luis Wille pendulum

    Willi, thanks very much for posting your Wille temperature compensating pendulum clock. Actually your clock was made by W. Würth & Co. in 1905 based on the serial number 4896. If the pendulum still has its original bottom cover, it will also have a serial number that could match the movement number. A photo of the bottom of the pendulum disc will be appreciated either with or without the cover.

    My research has shown that all back plates in the Repair Guide marked with DRP 144687 were made by Würth, including Plates 1049, 1049A, and 1053. That patent is for the Louis Wille temperature compensating pendulum, which from our documentation was very evidently made only for two years from 1903 to 1905 and used "only" with Würth clocks. Every Wille pendulum documented so far that has its original bottom cover is stamped with a 4-digit serial number that corresponds with a Würth clock.

    The crown on your clock should be exactly like the one illustrated in the Repair Guide on clock No. 51, page 38. That clock is the exact model as yours; the Repair Guide shows it to be a Jahresuhren-Fabrik Plate 1049 but the actual maker is Würth as I described above. Finding a replacement will be difficult, you may need to make one yourself or have it made. The only sources are from a loose movement or junk clock, possibly from parts listed on eBay, or from a member on this MB who may have one.
     
  19. lokonelly

    lokonelly Registered User

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    #270 lokonelly, Jan 11, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 31, 2017
    Re: 400 day clock with Luis Wille pendulum

    Hello John Hubby!
    Many thanks for the detailed information. The pendulum is marked on the bottom with the same number. I have a picture in the thread Würth 400 day clocks set. I hope I found the right crown. Thanks again for the very informative replay.
    Many greetings from Austria Willi :)
     
  20. Ingulphus

    Ingulphus Registered User

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    New Wurth

    I just received this Wurth, and am very happy with it - the gold plating or gilt lacquer is in very, very good condition, and the clock came with what appears to be the original top block, fork and bottom block, with gimbaled suspension. The serial number is 12782; the bottom cover is missing from the pendulum, but the gilt finish is a perfect match to the clock, so I think it's original. The pendulum has the guide slots for the weights, but is lacking the internal steel or iron disk. The auction photos did not show a dome, so I was pleasantly surprised to find there was one, with the remnants of a paper rim still glued on. All four feet are present.

    The clock appears to be untouched, and while I haven't had the chance to fit it with a suspension spring, the escapement trips nicely. A nice change from my more usual basket cases!

    I just realized that I chose the wrong method of posting this - could a moderator move this to the Wurth thread, please?

    Wurth 002.jpg Wurth 001.jpg
     
  21. lesbradley

    lesbradley Registered User
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    Re: New Wurth

    Nice acquisition Mark, very close to one I have serial 12122. But I had to wait a while to find the correct base to go with mine. CIMG0987.jpg

    Did you see the price the Swan Patent Angelmeldet with Roman dial went for on Ebay just recently?
     
  22. Ingulphus

    Ingulphus Registered User

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    Re: New Wurth

    Yes. I had a brief moment fantasy when it was in the low hundreds, but that quickly evaporated! Makes me wish I'd kept mine!
     
  23. Ingulphus

    Ingulphus Registered User

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    Re: New Wurth

    Les - what year was yours made?
     
  24. John Hubby

    John Hubby Principal Administrator
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    #275 John Hubby, Feb 20, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 31, 2017
    Re: New Wurth

    Mark, thanks for posting! I moved your post to this thread per request. Looks like a really nice, complete clock. Too bad the pendulum bottom cover is missing but that's the fate of about 20% of these pendulums. The later development of a bottom cover with a depression and hole where it could be securely fixed in place by a nut on the center shaft would have saved a lot of history if it had been used from the beginning on Würth pendulums.

    How about some movement photos? That would help fill in the gaps for documentation purposes.

    Based on the serial number, my data show your clock was made mid-second half 1907, just a few months after the advertisement was published that contained all the info we needed to discover who actually made these clocks.
     
  25. Ingulphus

    Ingulphus Registered User

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    Re: New Wurth

    John -

    Thank you, as always! I hope to have the time to service the movement this weekend, and will take and post movement photos then. The movement finish is as shiny as the rest of the clock, so photographing it is tricky because of the glare. I have several other Wurths that I need to post about as well (at least two with the press fit tin bottom cap on the pendulum, and two with suspension bracket #16), but it's all a matter of time, which is in short supply for me these days. At least I won't have to polish any brass on this one!

    One question for all: I fitted a Horolovar .0004 spring, which proves to be too strong, with the clock gaining almost 10 minutes in one hour (approximate), with no visible flutter. Should I thin the spring or move directly to a .00038? I hate to have to switch springs again (gimbaled suspensions are the devil to work with), but either way it's going to be a chore. I looked at my other two #20 pendulums, and found that none had an internal timing disk, so either all were lost, or there wasn't one to begin with. What has been other's experience with fitting a suspension to this model/pendulum?

    Best regards to all,

    Mark
     
  26. John Hubby

    John Hubby Principal Administrator
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    Re: New Wurth

    Mark, you mentioned earlier that the steel disc was missing from your pendulum. That would account for the clock running 10 min per hour fast. I would go ahead to install the 0.0038.

    I've had reasonably good luck using the 0.0040 with pendulum No. 20 when all the original parts are present. If the bottom cover is missing you will probably have to thin the spring and if both the cover and disc are missing a thinner spring will be needed.
     
  27. Ingulphus

    Ingulphus Registered User

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    #278 Ingulphus, Apr 20, 2015
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2015
    Re: New Wurth

    A new acquisition - a Wurth with a Wille pendulum. Serial number is 1135, which is also scribed (twice) on one of the removable thin brass discs inside the pendulum. The pendulum has guide slots for the weights. When I received the clock, it had a tabbed final from a later JUF in place of the original, and a modern suspension bracket; luckily I had those parts at hand. The hour hand is not original but that I don't have a suitable replacement for, at least not yet.

    The anchor is solid (rather than adjustable). I've not seen this base before - it has a row of concave indentations as well as the more usual convex beading, currently filled with old metal polish or paint (I suspect the latter, as it is not easily removable).

    I haven't given the case the full treatment yet, just overhauled the movement and installed a .00004 spring. The clock is running too fast, with no visible flutter, so I'm going to try a .00038 and see what happens - with such a relatively heavy pendulum, I would have thought that the .00004 would have been the perfect fit, but the answer may somewhere in between the two strengths (as it has with other Wurths). It's operating at a little over 180 degrees, with one inch of overswing, so I'll be breaking the movement down again to see where it's losing power (hence the untrimmed pins on the back).


    Front.jpg Back plate.jpg Pendulum.jpg Escapement.jpg Base detail.jpg Bottom of pendulum.jpg
     
  28. John Hubby

    John Hubby Principal Administrator
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    #279 John Hubby, Apr 20, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 31, 2017
    Re: New Wurth

    Mark, thanks for posting! You now have the second lowest recorded serial number for a Würth clock. The lowest is 1041, and the next highest after yours is 1155, only 20 digits later. Up to now it appears that Würth started their serial numbering at 1001. This is based on several confirmed data points in late 1903 to early 1904 around either side of serial number 1300, and using production rates for 1904 and 1905 projected back into 1903 that coincide with the granting of the Wille patent in September that year. DRGM 208297 was granted to Wille in August 1903 for the same design that was covered under DRP 144687, so we can safely assume that at least prototypes were being made in the June-September period of 1903.

    Würth movements had solid pallet anchors from initial production to about serial number 3000 at which time they adopted adjustable pallets and also changed the movement design to have a removable front plate pivot bridge for the pallet anchor arbor. The pivot bridge was adopted by Kienzle from their first production, one of several innovations created by Würth that were later used by Kienzle.

    The base on your clock is the first one used by Würth, which I have designated "Convex Fancy Beaded". Only the lower row is beaded as you have noted, the upper row is actually dimpled on all the examples I have seen. This design was used until mid-1905 and evidently discontinued for a time, reappearing in late 1907 but with a brass-plated steel center cover. Until early 1905 when Würth started sales to Bowler & Burdick, and not including the clocks they made having 4-Glass Crystal Regulator and other closed cases, this base and one other were all that have been documented for their early production:

    1683 Front.jpg This base has a brass-plated steel center cover, and the outer base is what I call "Concave Fancy Beaded", the concave coming from the section just below the beaded rim. After its introduction at the beginning of 1904 it has been documented in use until the first half of 1909.

    Bases used for Bowler & Burdick included velour covered centers like the earlier Huber, JUF, and Hauck clocks sold to B&B, and also a JUF style base that was used by Würth for some of their "standard" clocks from 2nd half 1905 until they stopped production in 1910. Only one clock has been found so far with a GB style base, made in 1905. I suspect this was a marriage, however Huber, Hauck , and JUF all used GB style bases from 1903 to about 1907.

    These are very good runners, the two in my collection get about 240 to 270 degrees rotation so you must have some kind of power loss to cause the low rotation on yours.

    1683 Front.jpg
     
  29. Ingulphus

    Ingulphus Registered User

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    Re: New Wurth

    John -

    As always, thank you for sharing your knowledge! I will give the movement another thorough going over to determine where a power loss is occurring. In terms of the suspension spring strength, I've realized that it is gaining a small enough amount of time that thinning the .00004 spring will be the best way to proceed (since cleaning and fitting with the spring, I've left the clock running largely ignored while I dealt with the demands of my day job, so wasn't paying attention to timekeeping).

    As for the base - do yours have a whitish fill in the concave dimples, or am I correct in my surmise that it's merely old metal polish?

    I had neglected to add that there are a few hairline fractures on the dial; I have an almost identical dial and bezel, but with a cream enamel instead of white. Do both of your examples have a white enameled dial? I would prefer to use the perfect dial, but not if it's not appropriate for the clock.

    Best regards,

    Mark
     
  30. marylander

    marylander Registered User

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    Please help to date this Kienzle clock with Gimbal Suspension Spring Saddle

    Hello, I picked up this clock today from a clock shop in Maryland near Washington DC. The clock was badly damaged after a fall. The clock shop does not know how to repair it so I had a chance to purchase it with reasonable price. I need to use alum to dissolve those two broken screw in-bedded on top of front plate. I believe the pediment screws were broken as the result of the fall. It will be a long process to dissolve the screws.
    This is the first clock I have with this type of Gimbal suspension spring saddle. The clock looks like was gold plated originally. I will restore the clock, As soon as I finish, I will show some after pictures.

    The clock has a matching serial number pendulum. The back plate number looks to me is #1427. The serial number is 020582.
    Please help me to date the clock. Any information about this clock will be highly appreciated.
    Thank you in advance.
    Ming
     

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  31. etmb61

    etmb61 Registered User
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    #282 etmb61, Jun 6, 2015
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2015
    Re: Please help to date this Kienzle clock with Gimbal Suspension Spring Saddle

    Hi Ming,

    You have a Wilhelm Wurth clock, from between 1907 and 1910.

    Eric
     
  32. marylander

    marylander Registered User

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    Re: Please help to date this Kienzle clock with Gimbal Suspension Spring Saddle

    Thank you very much Eric. What is the plate number for this Wurth back plate?
    Ming
     
  33. etmb61

    etmb61 Registered User
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    Re: Please help to date this Kienzle clock with Gimbal Suspension Spring Saddle

    Ming,

    That would be plate 1427.

    Just a note that there are no plates in the repair guide identified or other references to Wurth clocks. All Wurth plates shown are marked Kienzle or Jahresuhrenfabrik. John Hubby has posted plate information in the "post your Wurth clock..." thread.

    You have pendulum 13 which also a Wurth part.

    There were only some 27000 Wurth clocks made during the company's existence, so finding one complete and original 105+ years later can be difficult. Great find!

    Eric
     
  34. John Hubby

    John Hubby Principal Administrator
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    #285 John Hubby, Jun 7, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 31, 2017
    Re: Please help to date this Kienzle clock with Gimbal Suspension Spring Saddle

    Ming, thanks for posting! Eric has already properly identified your clock including the maker and plate number. Based on the serial number it was made about mid-1909.

    Read through the "Post Your Würth Clocks Here" thread and you will find there are quite a few distinguishing characteristics of Würth clocks that separate them from Kienzle and JUF clocks. One is the exclusive use of the No. 13 disc pendulum, which has been found with matching serial numbers "only" with Würth clocks made from late 1908 to early 1910.

    I'm moving your thread to the Würth thread for continuing discussion and archival purposes. We will look forward to seeing it after you have completed the restoration.
     
  35. marylander

    marylander Registered User

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    Re: New Wurth

    Eric and John, thank you ever so much for taking your time to help me to id and date the clock. I am glad to learn how to id clocks from W Wurth. Now, I am even happier to have a clock from different maker in my collection. Your education is very much appreciated.
    Ming
     
  36. marylander

    marylander Registered User

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    Re: New Wurth

    Finally, I restored the clock. The 0.038" suspension spring is used. It is a little too weak so I have the hung the pendulum higher to make the time. 0.0039" suspension spring will make the look better. But I do not want to thin down 0.0040" spring.I may do so in the future. Two broken pediment screws were dissolved in Alum solution. I still need to get two screws to tie down the pediment. If any one knows the screw size and place to get them, please let me know. I will be very grateful. Summer is not a good time for spread paint lacquer for the high humidity. I may have to repaint the lacquer in the Fall.
    Ming
     

    Attached Files:

  37. macaw

    macaw Registered User
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    Re: New Wurth

    Ming,
    I can't see that I'll restore my parts clock as it's missing the pendulum, and the base is toast. So, if you pm me with your address I'll mail you the screws.
    Mark
     
  38. marylander

    marylander Registered User

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    Re: New Wurth

    Thank you Mark for your generous offer and help. I will pm you my info.
    Ming
     
  39. John Hubby

    John Hubby Principal Administrator
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    Re: New Wurth

    Ming, beautiful restoration! Looks like it came from the factory, it's obvious you paid close attention to the details.
     
  40. marylander

    marylander Registered User

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    Re: New Wurth

    Thank you John for your encouragement. The clock is running very strong. It turns more than 290º with 3/4" over swings.
    Ming
     
  41. Waltom

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    #292 Waltom, Sep 8, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 31, 2017
    Is it a complete Würth?

    I the last week I restored the clock , it is (IMO) Louvre model made by Würth in 1907-1908 ? . Maybe base is made by Kienzle , movement made by Wurth?
    The back plate 1009AA and serial number 13768 .
    Pendulum No 20 without the number.
    Gimbal upper bracket No. 14.
    On the front plate is the bridge for escape arbor.


    Wurth front.jpg

    Wurth back.jpg

    pendulum 1.jpg

    Gimbal susp..jpg



    I do have some question about the Hands, they are correct or should be like this one (dial is simillar)


    https://mb.nawcc.org/showthread.php?114047-Help-idenify-a-clock&highlight=help+idenify+clock


    Waldemar

    Wurth front.jpg Wurth back.jpg Gimbal susp..jpg pendulum 1.jpg
     
  42. Kamil Urbanowicz

    Kamil Urbanowicz Registered User

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    #293 Kamil Urbanowicz, Sep 16, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 31, 2017
    Re: Is it a complete Würth?

    Thanks for posting Your clock, in my opinion hands are proper.
    Waldemar could You post a picture of the bottom plate of the pendulum You have. Because normally they have a number there of the backplate.
     
  43. Waltom

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    #294 Waltom, Sep 17, 2015
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    Re: Is it a complete Würth?

    In my last post is the picture of the pendulum with backplate, This backplate haven't any number.
    It is simply lid, without hole for the screw.
    I hope that, it is a original?

    Waldemar
     
  44. John Hubby

    John Hubby Principal Administrator
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    #295 John Hubby, Sep 18, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 31, 2017
    Re: Is it a complete Würth?

    Waldemar, thanks very much for posting the photos and information regarding your Würth Louvre model clock. This is only the second such clock now documented for Würth, the other being the one you have referenced serial number 8945 made in 1906.

    Based on the serial number, your clock was made right at the end of 1907. The dial and case are identical to the earlier clock although the pendulums are different. However, in my opinion the hands are not original on either clock and it appears the pendulums are also not original, for certain with the earlier clock as it has a different serial number (2773, very early). Your pendulum not having a serial number is unusual, I suspect the bottom cover of the pendulum disc is a replacement so there is no way to know for certain if it is original although that could be so.

    Regarding the dial design there are other Würth clocks having the same design such as this 4-Glass:

    7606 Front.JPG I notice this one has spade hands and most of the large dial Würth clocks also have spade hands but there are differences from one clock to the next. It isn't easy to say what would actually be original.

    I believe the movement for your clock actually is like Plate 1438 but without the "made in Germany" stamp above the serial number. Note that Plate 1438 has serial number 13903, very close to yours. We identified both Plates 1437 and 1438 to be made by Würth some time ago.

    Going back to the case for your clock, I mentioned in the other thread that it might not be original for that one. Up to that time the earliest confirmed matching case and movement was made in the second half of 1908 (a Kienzle). No trade advertisement has yet been found to date these cases before 1908 so the jury is still out whether they in fact were made earlier. Now having found two earlier Würth clocks with the Louvre case, we could be at a point to conclude they "were" made before 1908. I still need some kind of evidence to that effect, such as a dated presentation inscription for 1906 or 1907 on one of them, or a dated trade advertisement or catalog. In the meantime I would "not" do anything other than enjoy what you have, a very interesting clock with an relatively rare movement.

    7606 Front.JPG
     
  45. Kamil Urbanowicz

    Kamil Urbanowicz Registered User

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    #296 Kamil Urbanowicz, Sep 18, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 31, 2017
    Re: Is it a complete Würth?

    Waldemar i made one more look at the dial and the hands sadly did not come with this clock

    Here how they look in a clock there is in way to me, so probably this case was made before 1908 or the movement was made earlier and used later by the clock factory.

    218 (4).jpg 218 (8).jpg

    218 (4).jpg 218 (8).jpg
     
  46. Waltom

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    #297 Waltom, Sep 18, 2015
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    Re: Is it a complete Würth?

    Kamil, could You post a picture of the pendulum from your clock?
     
  47. Kamil Urbanowicz

    Kamil Urbanowicz Registered User

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    #298 Kamil Urbanowicz, Sep 18, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 31, 2017
    Re: Is it a complete Würth?

    when I receive it - it will take a while, but I been informed that it missing the bottom cover from a pendulum and one arm :(
     
  48. John Hubby

    John Hubby Principal Administrator
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    #299 John Hubby, Sep 21, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 31, 2017
    Re: Is it a complete Würth?

    And now there are three (Louvre model Würth clocks)!! So interesting that it has been more than five years since the first Louve model having a Würth movement was documented and suddenly we have two more with very close serial numbers and identical movements and dials.

    Kamil, it will be most interesting to see the details of your clock after you have received it. The serial number shows it was made in early 1908, likely in the same "batch" of about 250 round plate movement clocks produced including serial numbers 13751 and 13994. I have documented seven clocks to date within these numbers, starting in late 1907.
     
  49. macaw

    macaw Registered User
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    Another Pre Restoration Wurth

    DSCN3521.jpg DSCN3523.jpg DSCN3524.jpg This one was listed as a JUF on Ebay, so I hope I didn't mess up and actually buy a JUF. The serial number 109103 seems high, and I haven't seen fabric in the groove for the dome before. Any info on it would be great!
    Mark
     

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