Re: Another Wurth? but rather different
Just had this one delivered today, another classic case of how not to pack a clock. Dome and inside fine, base not protected and badly dinged.
OUCH!! Not an easy one to repair, either. Even though the base center is removable, the outer spun brass ring is (if I recall correctly) crimped to the steel base support where the feet are fixed. Not easy to get to that at all.
I guess this is plate 1613 but plus inspection holes and the suspension ring holes.
It's actually
Plate 1427 minus the "Made in Germany" stamp. Note that plate has two threaded holes for the ring guards as fitted to your clock, that is characteristic for most Würth clocks thus far documented although there are some later ones with the Kienzle arrangement. Kienzle clocks have only one screw plus a pin.
Also unusual is the Kienzle type C suspension. The suspension bracket is actually made of two parts. The suspension mount bracket is screwed to the upright bracket.
I believe this is the normal configuration for the "C" suspension used by Würth and Kienzle. You had Kienzle serial number 101052 at one time, the photos in my file show the type "C" two-part bracket with the mounting part screwed to the upright bracket. Just to check, I did a random search in my Kienzle files and found all of the type "C" brackets where I could see the part line or mounting screws to be made that way right to the end of Kienzle production.
The pendulum is also somewhat unusual, having deep small diameter counterweights.
I guess the pendulum is type 13 in the guide. So I also presume, assuming this is a Wurth, that there was considerable collaboration between the two companies(Kienzle & Wurth) at some time.
This is the No. 13 pendulum shown in the Repair Guide to have been for Kienzle. My data in fact show this pendulum was first used by Würth from about 1907, then to have first appeared on Kienzle clocks only about 1911. The information we have right now indicates Würth ceased making 400-Day clocks about that same time, so it appears Kienzle picked up the design then and continued to use it at least to the mid-1920's.
Another interesting side note that needs further study is that the crossed-tube and vertical tube mercury pendulums (No. 8 and 9 in the Repair Guide, shown as "Gustav Becker") were patented by Andreas Huber in January 1911, and those also used the exact same base and weight design as for Pendulum 13. Whether Huber collaborated with Würth or not is unknown, but I've disassembled both and there is no physical difference between the two bases or weights. We do know that Huber appear to have closely worked with Kienzle from sometime after 1907, so it's possible he also worked with Wurth and the base design was shared. We do know that Huber made a version of the crossed-tube mercury pendulum specifically for Kienzle shortly after it was patented in 1911.
Regarding Würth collaboration with Kienzle, there is ample evidence to show that was quite likely. Being located in the same town could easily lead to some kind of sharing arrangements or cross-licensing of patented features for their clocks. Common features include:
- Front plate anchor pivot bridge, 2nd half 1904 until mid-1908 on Würth clocks, from mid-1907 to end of production on Kienzle
- Suspension No. 14, patented and used by Würth Feb. 1907, from early 1909 to early 1912 on Kienzle
- Ring suspension guards, first seen on Kienzle early 1907, on Würth early 1908
- Pallet inspection holes on Würth and Kienzle at same time late 1906
- Pendulum No. 20 patented and used by Würth late 1903, on Kienzle from 1910
- Pendulum No. 13 on Würth mid 1907, Kienzle 1911 and later
- "T" shape crown piece appeared on first Würth clocks in 1903 and was used throughout their production through 1911, on Kienzle from late 1908 to end 1914
To really tie some of this down I need one piece of data that has not yet surfaced, being exactly when Kienzle first started making 400-Day clocks. A. von Held reported this to be 1906 in his "Year-Clocks" writings, but I have yet to find a Kienzle that clearly could have been made in that year. The first ones in my data have the "C" type upper suspension bracket, but we know that was only patented in September 1907. There is a group of about 5,000 clocks with that suspension, followed by a group of about 6,000 that use suspension No. 14 (the Würth gimbal), then nearly all Kienzle's after that have the "C" type suspension, with a few having No. 18.
As can be surmised there is yet a lot of work to do to fully explore and document the manufacture of Würth clocks and the history of that company. However, the above appears to be what we can describe at this writing
