Post your quartz clock matters here

Discussion in 'Electric Horology' started by lmester, Oct 14, 2012.

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  1. lmester

    lmester Registered User
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    I've seen several different fake torsion pendulum systems. Fake because the pendulum is not used for keeping time. The best one that I have worked with is shown below. It uses only one battery to run the clock and It's hard to damage. Your grandkids can spin the pendulum around like a top without any damage to the mechanism.

    It's rotation also looks like the real thing. It slows down at each end of it's rotation. I've seen some that rotate at a nearly constant speed and then abruptly slow down and reverse direction.

    There was no maker shown on the clock. When I took the cover off of the movement I saw that it was made by Haller.

    The worst pendulum drive mechanisms that I have seen look like a generic quartz movement with a black plastic case. They take a single AA battery and have a shaft on top to drive the pendulum. They must wear out quickly. I buy used modern quartz anniversary clocks to get the glass dome for use on older mechanical clocks. I've not yet bought a used clock with this type of pendulum drive that was still working. The quartz movement is OK but the pendulum drive was dead.

    I was also going to post a picture of one of those junky pendulum drive mechanisms. I can't find one. I think I tossed them all in the trash...
     

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  2. Tinker Dwight

    Tinker Dwight Registered User

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    Re: The best quartz (fake) torsion pendulum drive that I have seen.

    Hi
    I assume that if a kid spins it, it just runs
    of the end of the rack?
    Tinker Dwight
     
  3. watchin

    watchin Registered User

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    Re: The best quartz (fake) torsion pendulum drive that I have seen.

    I inadvertantly ended up being the owner of an all plastic 400 day look alike. It was a sight unseen purchase with no return rights. It had no glass or brass parts. Full size gold plastic movement, pendulum, base and plastic dome. I keep it displayed in my mud room to remind me of the 'stuff' that is floating around out there. Fortunately it was under $10 but in it's prime is not worth even that.
    A glass dome would have helped me lick my wounds and feel pretty good, but alas, scratched up clear plastic.
    I really don't think my grandkids would be interested in it as a target. I hope I don't come across as a curmudgeon. I love mechanical clocks.
     
  4. lmester

    lmester Registered User
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    Re: The best quartz (fake) torsion pendulum drive that I have seen.

    Right. It just goes to the end of the rack & slips. When it stops spinning it goes back to the center. If there was just some way to do something to protect real torsion clocks from this problem it would be great. I guess then I wouldn't find so many of them for sale that just need a new suspension spring!
     
  5. David B Pendley

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    Re: The best quartz (fake) torsion pendulum drive that I have seen.

    These units are available through Lorichron in Asheville, NC. I think they were made by Haller.
     
  6. Cheezhead

    Cheezhead Registered User

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    Re: The best quartz (fake) torsion pendulum drive that I have seen.

    I have one of these in my small collection of inexpensive quartz anniversary clocks. The two slender white levers that you see in Mr. Imester's picture are very flexible and are joined at the common pivot seen at one end The two levers are rigid enough to operate the pendulum if no interference is presented. I concur with Mr. Tinker Dwight and Mr. Imester in that if the pendulum is needlessly spun, the rotary pendulum operating gear simply runs off either end of the rack and the flexible levers accommodate this disturbance without damage. By the same way, if the pendulum is needlessly stopped, the timing portion of the clock is neither slowed nor stopped; keeps on running. My clock is brand labeled Seth Thomas. This appears to be a very clever design from Haller who are still in the business of selling clocks. In addition to other advantages of a quartz clock this one is quite insensitive to the lack of a perfectly level locating surface.
     
  7. bangster

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    Re: The best quartz (fake) torsion pendulum drive that I have seen.

    The best I've seen is the Kundo quartz movement, which is much simpler than the Haller shown above. Its action is natural, and mimics the behavior of a "real" pendulum quite well, because it works the same way.

    143600.jpg 143601.jpg

    It has a regular suspension spring, but instead of a fork it has a single pin projecting from the spring into the movement. The pendulum is impulsed in one direction only by a single-toothed wheel (red arrow) that is spring-loaded, and gives a push to the pin on the suspension spring. The only difference between the Kundo and a "real" pendulum is that the impulsing force is independent of the time-keeping part of the movement.

    Kundo quartz1.jpg Kundo quartz 2.jpg
     
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  8. etmb61

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    Re: The best quartz (fake) torsion pendulum drive that I have seen.

    I have one of the Kundos as well. I do not think that is a quartz movement, rather a electro/magnetic balance wheel.

    Mine has a mechanical pendulum (#75) exacly like those used on the key wound clocks, complete with the locking lever, hanging from suspension 49.

    You can't tell it's electric until you get up close and hear the fast ticking.

    Eric
     
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  9. bangster

    bangster Moderator
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    Re: The best quartz (fake) torsion pendulum drive that I have seen.

    The one I have now says "quartz" on the dial.

    I think it's a matter of how the magnetic impulses are timed, that makes it quartz.
     
  10. MartinM

    MartinM Registered User

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    Re: The best quartz (fake) torsion pendulum drive that I have seen.

    The first electronic versions were not quartz. They were an offshoot of the swinging pendulum versions of the Kundo and Junghans electromechanical clocks. They used a magnetic trigger to impart a maintaining impulse on the balance wheel and were timed very much like any other hairspring clock. Most of these type used an additional such system for pendulum movement. In all but one Kundo model I've seen, the pendulum wasn't actively participating in the timing for the clock. But I admit to having limited exposure to the full cadre of types.

    All of the "quartz" clocks I've seen keep time and move the hands via a quartz-controlled oscillator and divider circuit and use the motion occurring in that process (Usually via an unused 'seconds' shaft to impart oscillation is a torsion pendulum via a lever, cam or offset shaft.

    TIP: Many times these quartz clocks use a 'button' to cover the hand arbors This button is pressed onto a fully functional seconds shaft. If it's pressed on too hard, the clock can't run. If it had been a real seconds hand, instead of a button, it'd be trivial to catch; but as a button, it's not so obvious and you can spend a lot of time working through it and having the clock run right up until you're sure it's good and put it all back together.
     
  11. bangster

    bangster Moderator
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    Re: The best quartz (fake) torsion pendulum drive that I have seen.

    If it calls itsownself "quartz", I'll allow as how it's quartz. :whistle:

    As I said, with this type, pendulum action is independent of timekeeping. This means, among other things, that the strength of the suspension spring doesn't matter, since the period of the pendulum has nothing to do with the period of the clock.
     
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  12. MartinM

    MartinM Registered User

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    Re: The best quartz (fake) torsion pendulum drive that I have seen.

    I wonder how the mechanical balance keeps sync with the quartz timebase?. It must be close enough that the quartz timebase simply acts as a reinforcement/correction for the period of mechanical oscillation. Sort of like a Phase Locked Loop. If it's not a pretty close match, I'd think it'd eat up batteries, fast, though.
     
  13. lmester

    lmester Registered User
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    Re: The best quartz (fake) torsion pendulum drive that I have seen.

    That's a nice fake! It even has a real suspension spring.

    I agree with the other replies. I don't think this is a quartz movement. If it were quartz, there would be no reason for the balance. The quartz crystal is regulating it. The first two pictures are of similar looking movements. I've had both of these apart and can verify that they are not quartz. There is no crystal just a simple one transistor circuit. You could be sure by looking at the circuit board on your movement. If it's quartz there will be a crystal and an I.C. to divide the crystal frequency down to get 1 second pulses. In newer movements the I.C. is just a blob of epoxy on the circuit board.

    I can't imagine why the manufacturer would label it as quartz?

    The last picture is a Haller with a real pendulum. It's not quartz but is electromagnetically impulsed. The pendulum is used for timekeeping. I'd think that this could still be called a fake torsion clock. When I look at the design I'd say it basically works like a Hermle floating balance. It has a flat wound hairspring instead of a torsion spring. Also the flat wound spring keeps the pendulum floating in between two jeweled bushings. No end thrust on the arbors.

    I think it's interesting to see all of the different designs that have been used to simulate a real torsion clock. Im sure that if we keep looking we'll find even more ways that it was done.

    Haller Electromagnetic.jpg Rhythm ATO original condition.jpg Metamec 015.jpg
     
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  14. shutterbug

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    Re: The best quartz (fake) torsion pendulum drive that I have seen.

    The GTB is another one that uses a hairspring arrangement.
     
  15. Cheezhead

    Cheezhead Registered User

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    Re: The best quartz (fake) torsion pendulum drive that I have seen.

    134.jpg

    Here is another "fake" torsion pendulum drive to add to what Mr. Imester has started and includes a detailed description of the mechanism that operates the rotary pendulum a single AA battery powered German Linden quartz anniversary clock.

    The pendulum is suspended by a vertical flat wire which has attached to it a flag whose edge is visible just above the gray star wheel. The flag is given a periodic push to the left at its bottom end by the CCW slowly rotating star wheel. The star wheel is connected to the step motor gear train through a slip clutch that permits the timing portion of the clock to continue even though the star wheel is periodically stopped by the white lever and to some extent, the flag. The white lever, suspended by a horizontal pivot pin that is not visible behind the black upper suspension wire holder, adds to the pendulum's amplitude by holding the star wheel stationary until the flag is better ready for another push. Visible at the lower end of the white lever is a horizontal extension that stops the star wheel which is held stationary until the pendulum is at a point in the return direction to where the flag pushes the visible tab on the left side of the white lever to the right, unlocking the star wheel to permit it to rotate again and give the flag another push.

    The pendulum's rotational excursion was running at about 450 degrees. As an experiment the white lever was held out of play and the pendulum's rotation continued and did not decrease appreciably. The white lever has an extension to the left at the top which may be a counterweight to reduce the force that the lever imposes on the gear train to reduce battery power consumption. Visible to the right of the upper suspension mount is an extension of the white lever that is confined between two fixed surfaces to act as limiting stops in both directions. The thin horizontal flat spring is part of the upper suspension spring mount and acts as a shock absorber for when the clock is handled roughly. The purpose of the white lever's upper stop is not apparent but the lower stop appears to keep the white lever from dragging against the star wheel to minimize friction and save battery power.

    It may be reasoned that the stiffness of the pendulum suspension wire, the inertia of the pendulum and the speed of the star wheel must be carefully coordinated. There is no protection against damage incurred if the pendulum is needlessly spun and the force to operate the pendulum does not appear to be as positive or robust as the Haller design described previously but in fairness, it works as intended.
     
  16. bangster

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    Re: The best quartz (fake) torsion pendulum drive that I have seen.

    Lemme see if I understand.

    In a regular quartz, the rate is determined by magnetic impulses regulated by the crystal. (I'm clear about that.)

    In the clocks we're referring to here, the only thing the battery does is power the movement by providing juice to the electromagnet.
    The rate, as with any balance movement, is determined by the effective length of the hairspring. It needs no regulating crystal, and doesn't have one.
    Okay so far?

    Next question: doesn't the juice have to get to the electromagnet in intermittent pulses, rather than a steady stream? (As you can see, my knowledge in this area is really limited.) Or maybe I don't understand how dc motors work. Anyhow, if it is pulses rather than stream, what regulates the pulses? And don't their frequency have an effect on the rate of the clock?

    Please clue me in on this.
     
  17. Tinker Dwight

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    Re: The best quartz (fake) torsion pendulum drive that I have seen.

    Hi Bang
    Pulses are timed by the swinging magnet in most of these cases.
    As the magnet swings into the coil, a tickler winding caused the transistor to turn
    on. This causes a feedback loop that increases the feedback holding the current
    through the coil and causing the swinging magnet to increase speed. The initial
    feedback is limited in time by a capacitor ( usually ), timed such that it can only
    start the transistor. Once the magnet begins to move out of the field, a reverse
    voltage is picked up by the tickler winding. This causes the transistor to turn off
    and wait for the next passage of the magnet.
    This is very similar to the way the ATO clocks work, with mainly slight changes to
    allow it to work with silicon transistor, instead of germanium.
    Tinker Dwight
     
  18. Cheezhead

    Cheezhead Registered User

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    Re: The best quartz (fake) torsion pendulum drive that I have seen.

    137.jpg

    Here is a German Made Westclox with the movement made by Hermle. It appears that someone put some twists in the suspension spring while starting the pendulum as this one is not self starting. It works similarly to the Linden but is a simpler design. Note the hairspring inside the star wheel that functions as a slip clutch. The white plastic "C" shaped star wheel trip lever is barely visible under and below the star wheel. The pendulum has a rotational excursion of almost 2-1/4 turns or about 800 degrees. Also note the small size of the movement. The cost savings compared to a traditional mechanical movement must be immense!
     
  19. lmester

    lmester Registered User
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    Re: The best quartz (fake) torsion pendulum drive that I have seen.

    Bangster,

    Maybe a simpler but not entirely accurate way describe this. Look at the first movement in my post #13. You can see that the coil is made of red and green wire. It's actually two coils. A trigger coil (tickler in tinkers post) and an impulse coil. The trigger coil is used to sense the position of the balance. That's how impulse is provided at the proper point of the balance's rotation. When the magnets approach the trigger coil it causes the impulse coil to be briefly switched on.

    This circuit has only a few parts but it's operation is fairly complex. It does basically the same function as the escapement in a fully mechanical clock. In a mechanical clock you have an escape wheel and pallets. Only a few parts but for me the most complex part of a mechanical clock. If I remember correctly, you helped me get the lock and drop set on a 400 day clock when I was having problems with it.

    Finally, there has been a lot of discussion of this type of electronic movement in the electric clocks area.
     
  20. Tinker Dwight

    Tinker Dwight Registered User

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    Re: The best quartz (fake) torsion pendulum drive that I have seen.

    Hi
    There are two types of pendulum drives shown on these posts.
    Some are the single transistor drive that independently drives the pendulum,
    with no relation to the quartz time.
    The other, is like seen in #15, #18 and I think #7 that periodically have a method
    of self syncing to the pendulum and adding to the swing.
    You'll note that these have something that lets the pendulum pass by if it is on
    the wrong direction of travel and then push it in the right direction.
    The are mechanically driven by the quartz movement but still are not related to the
    time of the quartz movement.
    Tinker Dwight
     
  21. Cheezhead

    Cheezhead Registered User

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    Re: The best quartz (fake) torsion pendulum drive that I have seen.

    142.jpg

    Here is a German made Bulova quartz anniversary clock with a conventional size Hechinger movement that incorporates a clever self starting rotary pendulum drive. The upper gear with its tooth tips seen protruding from behind the kidney shaped lever is driven at 1 rpm by the step motor and engages with the lower gear, also behind the kidney lever. The kidney lever is free to pivot on the upper shaft and the lower gear turns on a stub axle. The kidney lever is shown in its resting position with the pointed portion aimed downward until the horizontal pin fastened to the suspension spring engages as shown between two gear teeth that stops the lower gear. Then the kidney lever begins to rotate CCW and pushes the horizontal pin to the right to rotate the pendulum until the horizontal pin becomes disengaged from the lower gear and by gravity the kidney lever swings back to its rest position to wait for the next push cycle. The pendulum ball cluster rotary excursion is about 1-1/2 turns.
     
  22. David S

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  23. lmester

    lmester Registered User
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    Re: The best quartz (fake) torsion pendulum drive that I have seen.

    I found the junk pendulum drive that I mentioned in the first post. They don't hold up very well. I put some oil on the pivots and was able to get it to run. It's sloppy and It rattles. The plastic bushings are worn out. The last picture is a similar motor made by Elgin. It's been running without problems. One of the few pluses of a quartz movement. It's sealed. I used the dome from this clock on a mechanical clock. It's sitting on a shelf in my workshop. Dust all over it and it's still running.
     

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  24. Cheezhead

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    Re: The best quartz (fake) torsion pendulum drive that I have seen.

    198.jpg

    This is an anniversary clock pendulum drive that came to my mind when at first with no photo, Mr. Imester described one as being junky. This clock is branded Timex with a Shinfuku quartz movement. Please be aware of the missing hairspring that would normally be located immediately underneath the upper bearing, connected to the pendulum shaft and to the bottom end of the white lever. The white lever oscillates left and right, pulling and releasing the hair spring to rotate the ball cluster. The hairspring provides compliance for overshoot and undershoot to give sufficient pendulum rotation.

    A problem with this design is that the forces provided through the hairspring to oscillate the pendulum are too low relative to the friction presented from the lower and upper bearings. Even some graphite on the lower and upper bearings in addition to a little oil was not enough to overcome resistance to rotation to permit the pendulum to continue to oscillate for more than a few minutes. While attempting to remedy the situation, I ruined the hairspring and removed it. The solution may be a separate battery powered pendulum drive from Merritts for under 10 dollars. Mr. Imester may not approve but it may be my only easy option. It's a nice looking clock with red and yellow roses and green rose leaves on the white porcelain base and white porcelain dial.
     
  25. Cheezhead

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    Re: The best quartz (fake) torsion pendulum drive that I have seen.

    214.jpg

    This wood and glass anniversary clock is branded Hamilton and operates the timing and pendulum from the step motor movement branded Haller 993. The pendulum operating mechanism, barely visible through the translucent movement cover appears to be similar to a conventional windup alarm clock escapement. Through a slip clutch the step motor turns an escape wheel that operates a pallet fork that operates the pendulum instead of a balance wheel. Note the pendulum control hairspring below the quartz movement case. The Haller design pendulum suspension like a Haller GTB would not stay running until a little powdered graphite was added to the freshly oiled upper and lower pivots. The mounting feet needed experimentation by shimming them with playing cards until the pendulum would reliably run. Note the pendulum locking lever for transport.
     
  26. Cheezhead

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    Re: The best quartz (fake) torsion pendulum drive that I have seen.

    266.jpg

    This anniversary clock is branded Dunham and was made in West Germany. Both the quartz step motor operated timing movement, branded UTS, and the pendulum drive run from the same AA battery. The pendulum drive design is a variation of what Mr. Imester posted on 10-16-12, the main difference being that this one has a hairspring below the upper pivot bearing to control the pendulum excursion and the pendulum does not affect the clock timing accuracy. This pendulum drive is not self starting but does start with the slightest movement. It has been a reliable runner.
     
  27. Cheezhead

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    Re: The best quartz (fake) torsion pendulum drive that I have seen.

    31.jpg

    This is a Spartus model 6068 anniversary clock; measures 11-1/2" tall and was made in Louisville, MS. It has a Kienzle movement that runs from a single AA battery to operate both the timing geartrain and the pendulum. It runs very well with a pendulum excursion of about 1 turn. The star wheel runs at 1 rpm through a slip clutch and engages with a flag fastened to the torsion spring. Note the flag limit stop above the star wheel protruding from the back of the movement case. The limit stop keeps the flag where it will engage the next star wheel tooth no matter how far the pendulum rotates in the return direction. The flag rests against the stop when there is no battery power so the pendulum is self-starting. The clock is made almost entirely of plastic including the dome. A quality brand quartz movement such as this Kienzle with an elegantly simple and reliable pendulum operating mechanism deserves a better quality clock in which to hold it. It is, however, a clock that demands little from its owner; a new battery when needed and a time reset every few months.

    This is the last single battery operated quartz anniversary clock movement with pendulum drive that I will post as I have no other variations as of now. If I find another, I will post it here. I thank Mr. Imester for starting this thread.
     
  28. Ontime

    Ontime Registered User

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    Surely the curse of most clock lovers, but a very common movement these days is the battery quartz type which seem to cost next to nothing (less then $5.00). I have a habit of finding really nice cases without movements, often for just a few dollars. Having neither the skill or resources to find a original movement and return the clock to it's original state - I do what some consider a sin and install a quartz. Just did this to a New Haven chiming clock - missing both it's movements & iron mounting bracket...at least it now tells time.

    Question; what should I look for in these in terms of getting durability and accuracy. And are there higher quality quartz movements which will last for many years ?
     
  29. chimeclockfan

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    Re: Quartz - Quality Levels

    I have a simple Youngtown (China) Quartz clock that's kept good time for almost 13 years now. Cheap it may be, it's run without any issues.

    I find the more complex a Quartz movement is, regardless of make (chimes, pendulum, moon dial), the shorter it's lifespan is.
     
  30. Scottie-TX

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    Re: Quartz - Quality Levels

    I'd suppose to some extent price may be an indicator of quality. I see ABsolutely nothing wrong in turning an empty case into a clock with quartz. My interest in clocks began similarly except my mode was to equip them with modern springwound movements - mostly Hermle. In retrospect tho I now realize I might coulda found an original proper movement for less. However for me at that time that wasn't an option as I knew zilch about restoring old movements.
     
  31. Jay C.

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    Re: Quartz - Quality Levels

    In the late seventies my parents gave us a Seth Thomas reproduction schoolhouse clock with a striking quartz movement. Last fall it stopped working and I replaced it with a bim bam mechanical strike movement, which was the only one I could find. It has been keeping perfect time for 4 months now, and the sound of the chime rods is quite nice.

    Since then I have become a fan of American time and strike clocks and have been doing basic disassembly, cleaning and repair work. I’m about to do my first bushing job, and have been bitten hard by the mechanical clock bug. But I still value the quartz clock and enjoy the sight and sound of it every day.


    I’d also like to say that one of the most important inroads to the world of clocks that I’ve found is this site and forum. The tone is refreshing and knowledge amazing.

    Thanks to all,
    Jay
     
  32. dAz57

    dAz57 Registered User

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    Re: Quartz - Quality Levels

    as far as time only quartz movements, the ones made today don't really equal the ones made years ago, I have a kitchen clock with a Junghans W756 that I installed around 1980, it still runs well, today's movements come in cheap and very cheap, much simplified in construction compared to the early movements.

    the Takane movements seem to be pretty reliable, one was 11 years old when I had to swap it out, and only because the customer used a cheap battery that leaked.

    other movements just either die, or the oil gets gummy and they seize up, I did try some very cheap chinese made movements last year that cost lest than $2 each including postage, out of ten movements 8 worked, construction wise they looked much like other movements but a bit rougher, about the only real difference was the power consumption was near double, where a AA battery might run most movements for 2years+ or so these would be less then 18months.

    it is not really worth worrying about the quality of the movements, if it's reliable and works, fine, if it dies, chuck it and fit a new movement.
     
  33. Cheezhead

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    Re: Quartz - Quality Levels

    No problem with quartz here. If you want to know what the time is, look at a quartz clock or an atomic clock. Used mechanical clocks are difficult to find at the price level that I am willing to pay at flea markets and resale stores and if a young person wants to get into clock collecting, quartz may be almost all that there is now. Takane is good as was said and beyond that I like German movements such as Kienzle, Hechinger, Haller, and Junghans. The Germans can be relied on to be acceptably accurate. The Chinese quartz movements can be counted on to be good to within about a second per day but the luck of the draw might find one that is as good as a German.

    Regarding longevity, I have a nice oak Daniel Dakota wall clock with a Chinese quartz movement that would stop running after a few hours more or less. The movement could be opened for inspection w/o destroying the case and cover and so I did that. The step motor end shaft stubs in the case and cover were clearly worn and there was plastic debris from the wear. The plastic debris was cleared away and the step motor bearings were lubed with silicone oil. The clock has run without stopping for at least three weeks now. I have not encountered a German, a Japanese or another Chinese quartz movement that needed such work. All of my quartz mechanical clocks (I count at least 40) with the exception of two or three, are from flea markets and resale stores. Used quartz movements for me have been found totally failed (only one or two) or else they ran with no attention required other than a few needing cleaning of the battery contacts due to leaking, dead batteries left in the clock. I don't know how old my quartz clocks are but there is certainly a variety of ages.

    It seems that a better known brand such as Elgin or Howard Miller will have a decently accurate quartz mechanical movement, even if it has a Chinese movement. A Japanese movement excepting at least Seiko will be of a quality between a German and a Chinese movement in my view.
     
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  34. Ontime

    Ontime Registered User

    Nov 6, 2012
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    Re: Quartz - Quality Levels

    Thanks to all for the input. Maybe we'll sometime soon we'll see a movement promoted as ''high quality''....I think many folks would prefer to have a quartz movement last and not change it out every 5-10 years. It just seems that a movement which costs less then $3. is just below what many nice clocks deserve !

    A further question - some of these movements are a continuous sweep type, while others tic each second which can be heard....do wholesalers make the distinction about this difference. I just noticed this with the six or so I've installed in cases.....some tic seconds, others are the sweep type.

    A real survivor in the World of quartz is a circa early 1970s desk clock I found at a flea market - nice steel front with beveled glass & modernist style walnut case, dial is marked 'Boston' ? Has a pretty good sized quartz movement made in Japan, takes a C cell battery. It's been running for about four years without a battery change. It looses about 5-6 min. a month, but can't bring myself to update this relic of a quartz.
     
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  35. Tinker Dwight

    Tinker Dwight Registered User

    Oct 11, 2010
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    Re: Quartz - Quality Levels

    Most of these older clocks have trim capacitors.
    Find someone with a calibrated frequency counter and it
    can be adjusted to be right on.
    Tinker Dwight
     
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  36. Cheezhead

    Cheezhead Registered User

    Dec 30, 2010
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    Re: Quartz - Quality Levels

    Mr. Dwight: I can't agree that the older clocks that I see have trim capacitors. I would like it if they did and have a total of one quartz mechanical clock with a trim cap plus about 39 that do not. I have been regularly haunting the local resale stores and we have a good number of them here in SE WI, for the last two years. I purposely look for a trim cap on the back of all of the quartz mechanical clocks including those that appear to be complete rubbish that should be tossed into the bin. I simply don't find any with the trim cap.

    If very early quartz movements more frequently were equipped with a trim cap to adjust timing accuracy, then those are now gone and that says something negative about the lifespan of quartz mechanical movements.
     
  37. dAz57

    dAz57 Registered User

    Dec 7, 2011
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    Re: Quartz - Quality Levels

    the Junghans W756 in my kitchen clock has a trimmer, it also is a megaquartz with a 4.194304MHz crystal instead of the usual 32KHz.

    trimmers do have problems, they don't like moisture, humidity affects them causing the rate to drift, they can be damaged if someone is a bit heavy handed with a screwdriver, and the main reason is cost, a few cents saved in eliminating the trimmer out of a million movement makes the bean counters happy.
     
  38. Bob Fisher

    Bob Fisher Registered User

    Jul 2, 2012
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    Re: Quartz - Quality Levels

    I received a Junghans Radio controlled clock as a retirement present in 1992, It has worked flawlessly since then. It was expensive in the day, but you can but them, called "atomic clocks" nowadays for about $20. I , personally, love mechanical movements and chimes and gongs. Klockit has made in USA quartz movements that seem to last a reasonable amount of time.Bob.
     
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  39. Gordon J

    Gordon J Registered User

    Feb 5, 2013
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    Quartz pendulum movements

    I have a customer that wants to replace a movement with a quartz movement. I have some new old stock (approximately 4 to 5 years old) that I was going to use. These are pendulum quartz movements. The time works fine but the pendulums are not swinging. Do these lose magnetism over time? Is there any way to repair?
     
  40. Tinker Dwight

    Tinker Dwight Registered User

    Oct 11, 2010
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    Re: Quartz pendulum movements

    No, the magnets are not the problem unless they've come loose
    and fallen out.
    These usually use really fine wire for the coils. Sometimes the
    solder flux used is not cleaned off and too active, causing
    corrosion of the wires.
    It seems that many are using water soluble fluxes for environmental
    reasons. If not completely removed, these can cause problems.
    Tinker Dwight
     
  41. Gordon J

    Gordon J Registered User

    Feb 5, 2013
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    Re: Quartz pendulum movements

    Thank you for that information! I will check that. Gordon
     
  42. harold bain

    harold bain Registered User
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    Re: Quartz pendulum movements

    Make sure your batteries are fresh (should measure about 1.58 to 1.60 volts) and installed right way. The shelf life for these movements should be much longer than 5 years with proper storage.
     
  43. Gordon J

    Gordon J Registered User

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    Re: Quartz pendulum movements

    Thank you Harold - I will make sure to check that. Gordon
     
  44. Scottie-TX

    Scottie-TX Registered User
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    Re: Quartz pendulum movements

    Are you testing them on a stand? In the case? It is critical that the pendulum hangs properly and neither drags on the movement or hangs too far outward of the coil.
     
  45. Tinker Dwight

    Tinker Dwight Registered User

    Oct 11, 2010
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    source for different Quartz clocks

    I found from another group an interesting source for quartz
    movements.
    The place is a hole saler but if you need a special movement, they
    may have it.
    The even have radio controled movements with dials and
    I saw round movements as well.

    www.eckind.com

    Tinker Dwight
     
  46. Cheezhead

    Cheezhead Registered User

    Dec 30, 2010
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    My Newest Quartz Clock Acquisition

    Here is my latest find, a nicely made, elegantly styled Swiza quartz alarm clock made in Switzerland that I picked up a couple of weeks ago at a charity resale store for only a very few dollars. It is a chunk; made mostly of brass; weighs an amazing 4 pounds or 1.8 kg. It measures 4-7/8 inches high by 4-1/8 inches wide by 1-3/8 inches deep. It can be guessed that someone discarded this clock with its perceived high quality because it uses a more difficult to find "N" cell rather than a common "AA" cell. Also, battery replacement and the time adjustment require that the back of the clock, held in place with a knurled edge threaded fastener, be removed although the timing adjustment was correctly anticipated by the designer to be infrequent due to the clock's near perfect timing accuracy. It has lost about 0.29 seconds per day, closer to "Best" than to "Typical" accuracy of the COSC watch standard for Modern Quartz non-certified as found on Chronocentric.com.

    I am grateful to an unknown person for discarding this clock that is interesting to me and I anticipate others as well. It could be donated again to a charity resale store one day so another clock collector can own it for a while.

    Swiza4.jpg
     
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  47. juanplopez

    juanplopez New Member

    Mar 12, 2013
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    Looking for Someone to repair my Patek Philippe Naviquartz

    Here is some info:

    Patek Philippe Naviquartz precision (Cal. 33) clock, circa 1970's. The clock has Arabic numerals on a sunken inner dial with a large outer raised chapter ring calibrated for seconds. The dial is signed below the numeral 12 "PATEK PHILIPPE GENEVE." The face is set into a brushed metal rectangular plate which is signed along the bottom "NAVIQUARTZ." The back and sides of the case have a black anodized finish with a chrome beveled trim strip around the front. At the top of the case is a round disk which removes to change the 3 'D' cell batteries. In the center of the back is a removable disk for setting the clock which is above a plate which has serial numbers and instructions.
    Note: This clock has been sitting in a family member's library, without its batteries for many, many years. I put batteries, and heard the 'humming' of the movement, however, the sweep hand did not move.
    Dimensions: Diameter of dial 3 1/2 inches; Height 7 7/8 inches; Width 5 1/2 inches.

    85.jpg
     
  48. Cheezhead

    Cheezhead Registered User

    Dec 30, 2010
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    Re: Looking for Someone to repair my Patek Philippe Naviquartz

    It sounds encouraging that the electronics show life and that your clock may have a mechanical problem. Sometimes you get lucky and can repair such a problem without spare parts. It would be good if the movement case could be opened up without destroying it to identify the problem. If that is possible, any clock or watch repair person could take a look to see what is needed.

    It is obviously an expensive clock and it would be good to get it going again. I found one on the web for around $4000.

    Patek Philippe's web site shows a repair facility in NYC and two in Canada. Have they turned you away?
     
  49. eskmill

    eskmill Registered User
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    Re: Looking for Someone to repair my Patek Philippe Naviquartz

    juanplopez writes in part:"I put batteries, and heard the 'humming' of the movement, however, the sweep hand did not move."

    This is confusing.....a "quartz" controlled oscillator that hums? Tuning fork movements such as used in the Bulova hum at about 300 Hz or so. Quartz controlled oscillators, while they do actually vibrate, the frequency is beyond most people's hearing an too, the vibration in a quartz oscillator is miniscule and not audible.

    What's going on inside Lopez's Chronometer?
     
  50. Tinker Dwight

    Tinker Dwight Registered User

    Oct 11, 2010
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    Re: Looking for Someone to repair my Patek Philippe Naviquartz

    There is no technical reason why it can't hum as 300 Hz or 333Hz
    with a crystal control. The motor could run at any
    frequency. It seem to be an early model and most likely
    didn't even use a watch crystal as the one second tickers found today.
    Tinker Dwight
     

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