Post Your Ph. Hauck 400 Day Clocks Here

Discussion in '400-Day & Atmos' started by Michael Davies, Jul 7, 2006.

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  1. Michael Davies

    Michael Davies Registered User

    Nov 29, 2005
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    Ph. Haas/Hauck Dating

    I have four Haas/Hauck clocks, all Plate 1607 and all with Type 19 narrow-gallery pendulums. The numbers are:

    22579 - with Appdx.118 E-shaped suspension.
    25249 - with Appdx.118 Haas gimbal suspension.
    25608 - with Appdx.118 Haas gimbal suspension.
    37386 - with Appdx.89 fittings and Appdx.118 Haas gimbal suspension.

    Could John or anyone else please give me a steer on the dating of these clocks?

    Many thanks in anticipation.

    Michael Davies.
     
  2. Michael Davies

    Michael Davies Registered User

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    Ph. Haas/Hauck Dating

    I have four Haas/Hauck clocks, all Plate 1607 and all with Type 19 narrow-gallery pendulums. The numbers are:

    22579 - with Appdx.118 E-shaped suspension.
    25249 - with Appdx.118 Haas gimbal suspension.
    25608 - with Appdx.118 Haas gimbal suspension.
    37386 - with Appdx.89 fittings and Appdx.118 Haas gimbal suspension.

    Could John or anyone else please give me a steer on the dating of these clocks?

    Many thanks in anticipation.

    Michael Davies.
     
  3. John Hubby

    John Hubby Principal Administrator
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    Ph. Haas/Hauck Dating

    Hi Michael,

    Here are dates from my (preliminary) database for Hauck.

    22579 - with Appdx.118 E-shaped suspension. LATE !909.

    25249 - with Appdx.118 Haas gimbal suspension. MID-1910.

    25608 - with Appdx.118 Haas gimbal suspension. MID-1910.

    37386 - with Appdx.89 fittings and Appdx.118 Haas gimbal suspension. MID-1913.

    Any possibility of photos so I can obtain other data for the database? Also, do any of the pendulums have serial numbers, matching or otherwise?

    Info I have to date shows Hauck commenced 400-Day production in 1904, averaging a little over 4,000 clocks a year until they stopped sometime in 1915. Altogether about 45,000 clocks estimated to have been made, highest serial number recorded so far is 43,741. Lowest serial number recorded to date is 160. I have several cross-references that tie down the data fairly well from 1904 through 1909, but after that positive confirmations are few. Would like to see a few clocks with dated inscriptions, etc.

    John Hubby
     
  4. Michael Davies

    Michael Davies Registered User

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    Many thanks John for the data.

    One pendulum has a matching ink-inscribed number - 25249; the others have none.

    The 22579 pendulum is interesting - the disc is just a single plate of beautifully-machined brass with the usual deep recess below but no additional inserts or rings in it and no cover plate.

    I will post pictures next time I'm in a photographing mood.

    Michael Davies
     
  5. Michael Davies

    Michael Davies Registered User

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  6. Oldtime

    Oldtime Registered User

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    Hi Michael, I am working on what I am told is a Phillipp Hauck, looks all original. It has a very heavy three Ball pendulum as in # 26 in the 9th edition. My top block is missing,and by Looking at the top block in your clock it pretty much tells me what I have to locate. I don,t think it's going to be easy to find one.
    Joe Coppa.
     
  7. John Hubby

    John Hubby Principal Administrator
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    Joe, virtually guaranteed you won't find one. I make my own, it's not difficult if you have a lathe and some brass stock.

    The "gimbal" part can be made from rod, turn to size and drill the hole, then cut off. Need to cross-drill for the gimbal rods, I use large steel taper pins for those. Drive in and cut off to length. You will need to drill and tap for the set screw that locks the upper block in place.

    The upper block can also be made from the same rod as the gimbal. Either file or mill the flats to a rectangular shape, then turn the round part to fit in the gimbal hole. Drill for the locking screws, half-way to clear the screw diameter and the other half small enough to tap for the threads. Slit lengthwise with a fine blade jewelers saw and then cut off the pieces. Dress up and polish.

    John Hubby
     
  8. John Hubby

    John Hubby Principal Administrator
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    #8 John Hubby, Jul 11, 2006
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2017
    Ph. Haas/Hauck Dating

    Michael, thanks for posting the photos. That helps in documenting the specific features of each clock. In your case the first three are essentially the same clock.

    I note one feature of the first three that isn't on the last one, being what appears to be a brass-plated steel cover or cap for the base center part. Could you verify this? All you need is a magnet. Many 400-Day clocks had this on their clocks with the exception of JUF. Gustav Becker appear to have been first starting as early as 1902. Hauck has them from early 1909, Kienzle from beginning of production in 1907. There is evidence these "caps" were available as extra parts that could be added to a standard brass base, presumably to stiffen it up or something. I've seen many of them with the brass plating damaged by polishing, or corroded from moisture. Some of the Becker models needed to have these as the center of the brass part was open.

    The fourth clock (37386) has the Hauck suspension guard and also the clip for securing the suspension spring in transit, which seems to be found only on clocks above serial number 34,000 (late 1912). I will check my DRGM files to see if there is an applicable one at that time. Also, this clock has the larger 3-1/2 inch dial that was popular on Hauck clocks.

    John Hubby
     
  9. Michael Davies

    Michael Davies Registered User

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    Thank you Joe and John for your comments.

    Joe - John is right about the non-availability of the gimbal suspension mounts and blocks - I had to make one of mine as John describes using details he gave me earlier.

    Also if you look carefully at 25249f you will see that the bottom block (as originally fitted) is similar to the top block but upside down - I'd not seen one of these before (or since!)

    John - as you describe, the three later pendulums have brass-plated steel covers/caps; the earlier one (22579) has none and is a much thicker single piece of brass.

    Michael Davies.
     
  10. Oldtime

    Oldtime Registered User

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    Michael, I think I am starting to see the picture more clearly, I have never been that great at making parts from scratch, but if someone could post a clear detailed closeup of the 25249f top suspension block,and assembly of the clock shown above I would at least like to give it a go. Not having anything here like that to copy from,with me one picture is worth many words -:) Also would you know if the three ball pendulum was used on the Hauck clocks ? If not which clocks may have used the three ball pendulum? You have some nice clocks there. Thanks.
    Joe
     
  11. any400day

    any400day Registered User
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    Joe,

    Hope the following picture would be of some help.

    Vic
     
  12. Oldtime

    Oldtime Registered User

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    BINGO, That did it for me, Even I couldn't ask for a better photo than that. I find that this clock has several issue's so it is going to take a little more time than I first thought, but thanks to this group,and some time to work on it, I believe this ole clock will make a full recovery. I again thank you for your help.
    Joe Coppa.
     
  13. kepiting1sg

    kepiting1sg Registered User

    Jun 19, 2006
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    Hello Vic,

    I just came home and thanks to your pictures,
    now I don't have to take pictures of mine to show Joe.
    Will be visiting your place tomorrow to get my usual "fix"....wahahahaha!
    For you folks out there, I get a "high" each time I see & smell the clocks at Vic's place...hehehe!

    Have a great weekend everybody!

    Cheers!
    KP Seah
     
  14. kepiting1sg

    kepiting1sg Registered User

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    Hello Joe,

    Here's some pictures of my 3 balls Philip Hauck which should be like yours.
    Serial # 35713

    1.gif

    1.gif

    Serial # 16095

    189906431_6654840bb6_m.jpg


    I hope Mr. John Hubby can help me date both my Philip Hauck clocks.
     
  15. John Hubby

    John Hubby Principal Administrator
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    Ph. Haas/Hauck Dating

    Seah, the 16095 clock was made mid-1908 and the 35713 clock was made very early 1913. Unfortunately none of the photo links you have posted work, so I can't provide comments on other aspects of your clocks.

    You might check with Vic regarding how to post them so everyone will be able to see them. You can edit the posts you have already made to put up the correct links.

    I've posted this message on the other thread as well.

    John Hubby
     
  16. richday2

    richday2 Registered User

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    Hi, I have bought a Hauck for restoration, it has the number 34453 stamped on the back, does anyone have an idea of the age please. Also, can the cylindrical top block for the suspension wire be purchased or is it a bespoke item. Also someone has removed the spindle from the pendulum gallery, can these be obtained or agiain is this going to be a bespoke item. look forward to hearing back, thanks, Richard.
     
  17. lesbradley

    lesbradley Registered User
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    Re: Hauck Clock Age

    Hi Rich, nice to see another Hauck collector on the forum. From what I know the clock was produced 1911/12. I am sure John Hubby can be more specific. Parts for these clocks are few and far between, except for the usual consumables like springs, blocks etc.

    Bill Ellison has the odd part, but unlikely for what you are after. I have tried him.

    I have come to the conclusion that every Hauck I can obtain at a reasonable price is a good investment, but you need to be able to make parts or have friends who can do it for you.
     
  18. daveR

    daveR Registered User
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    Re: Hauck Clock Age

    Hi Richday
    I think Les leads the field as a Hauck clock collector !!! But his coments are always valuable. I would only add that as the gallery spindle (should) be relatively easy to turn for most machinists - and I don't include myself there- but make sure the brass is an older or an engraving brass, as depending on how critical you are, the colour will vary.

    Les's comments also led me to think that we could have some sort of register or list with pictures of the known Haucks around, with their serial No's. similar to what is going on in the clocks thread with the Beckers. It may also help John as he does such a huge amount for the forum anyway.
    Just an idea into the wind to see what people think.
    I'll be away for a week and then I can put in my two. How many otheres are around ??
    David
     
  19. richday2

    richday2 Registered User

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    Re: Hauck Clock Age

    Many thanks Les and Dave, what I meant to say was that it is all of the spindles that are missing, thankfully I have the top and bottom plates. I too had thought they may have to be made rather than obtained. thanks for the tip about the kind of brass to obtain.

    Les re the blocks you mention, is it possible to obtain this sepcific one from anywhere, thanks, Richard.
     
  20. lesbradley

    lesbradley Registered User
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    Re: Hauck Clock Age

    If you look at this post https://mb.nawcc.org/showthread.php?t=49973
    there is a photo of the suspension assembly and top blocks from one of my clocks. I have encountered two slight variations on the same style and the gimbals are not interchangeable, different diameters. I have also encountered slightly different spacing and threads for the suspension bracket. These must have been finished specifically on each movement.

    I spoke to Bill Ellison who said the only chance he had of supplying might be a standard bracket and block without the gimbal.

    If you want to match the original its a case of manufacturing one or finding a scrap clock. As the suspension is easily detachable I am fairly certain quite a few have gone missing over the years.
     
  21. richday2

    richday2 Registered User

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    Re: Hauck Clock Age

    Many thanks Les for the pictures, is there any chnace you could let me know the dimension of the top blobk in the picture please. many thanks, Richard.
     
  22. lesbradley

    lesbradley Registered User
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    Re: Hauck Clock Age

    The top block is 8mm wide,4.5mm deep and 5mm wide plus the additional spigot which fits into the gimbal. The gimbal is also 8mm external diameter, 3.5mm deep and 4mm internal dia. The bottom of the spigot is flush with the bottom of the gimbal. There is a slight chamfered recess on the underside of the gimbal.

    Hope that is sufficient for you.

    I have also just bought Hauck no.5 which has a different top block, will post details when it arrives.
     
  23. John Hubby

    John Hubby Principal Administrator
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    Re: Hauck Clock Age

    First to Richard, your clock was made in late 1911 based on the serial number. It would be great if you could post some photos of your clock so we can provide more info and also document it properly.

    David, I now have 157 Hauck clocks in my database, from the first ones made in 1903 to the last in late 1914. Lowest serial number to date is no. 16, highest is no. 41913. The data are now sorted in serial number sequence and dated based on patent info, dated inscriptions, catalog info, trade magazine advertisements, and other material.

    One of the first data problems found with Ph. Hauck clocks is that there are none labeled as such in the Horolovar Repair Guide; instead they are shown as Phillipp Haas clocks (PHS). There are also a number of Hauck back plates labeled as being made by Jahresuhren-Fabrik. Several years ago I was really interested in early Haas Black Forest clocks, and acquired catalog info etc. on them but never had seen a torsion clock made by PHS. A while later, after chasing out Hauck patents and other info I concluded all the "Haas" clocks in the Repair Guide were in fact made by Hauck. Last month, I received a message from Phillipp Haas' grandson confirming that Hass had never made torsion clocks, thus finally closing the loop such that we are now very confident which clocks were made by Hauck (and that NONE were made by Haas).

    I think it would be good to have a thread on Hauck clocks for documentation similar to the "Post Your Gustav Becker Clocks Here" thread in the Clocks forum. There is an earlier and similar thread regarding the BHA logo Gustav Becker clocks that hasn't been added to in a while but it provides very good info on those clocks. There is a work in progress to build a horological Wiki that could hold the info and photos later, but it will be a while before that is ready for major data input.
     
  24. kirxklox

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    Re: Hauck Clock Age

    You should check out the VaultWiki that is installed on this MB. It makes doing Documentation EASY.

    The more members that use it the better it will become.
     
  25. richday2

    richday2 Registered User

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    Re: Hauck Clock Age

    Hi John,

    Part way into the restoration now, the front plate has the number 53 stamped on it and the same number is stamped on the inside of the spring barrel cap. Is this of any significance. still trying to track someone down that could help me with fabricating the tob block to fit into the gibal arranegment. regards, richard.
     
  26. lesbradley

    lesbradley Registered User
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    Re: Hauck Clock Age

    Usually these nos. are used to match plates, commonly found on both front and back plates.
     
  27. richday2

    richday2 Registered User

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    Re: Hauck Clock Age

    thanks Les, good luck with the minute hand collet, richard.
     
  28. lesbradley

    lesbradley Registered User
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    Re: Hauck Clock Age

    I am chasing after a Unimat lathe/mill. May even be be making these parts myself sometime soon.
     
  29. richday2

    richday2 Registered User

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    Re: Hauck Clock Age

    Funny you should say that Les, thats about where i am in my head, regards, richard.
     
  30. richday2

    richday2 Registered User

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    Re: Hauck Clock Age

    Hi John/Les

    as per your message i attache soem photos of my HAuck, regards, richard.
     

    Attached Files:

  31. Mike Pana

    Mike Pana Registered User
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    Re: Hauck Clock Age

    Is it possible to get a photo of the gimbeled top block? I would like to have one made. The clock is in the 16 series which I think is an early one and has a split disc pendulum.

    Mike Pana
     
  32. lesbradley

    lesbradley Registered User
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    Re: Hauck Clock Age

    There is a guy listing some new manufacture gimbals on UK Ebay, must have had a batch made. PM me if you can't find it.
     
  33. any400day

    any400day Registered User
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    #33 any400day, Oct 25, 2009
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2009
    I will start the ball rolling by posting some of my Ph. Hauck 400 day clocks here and hope that others will add to the data-base.

    Fancy dial with 4 ball pendulum (not sure if it is correct but I bought the clock with it)
    SN 18783

    Vic
     

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  34. ivancooke

    ivancooke Registered User

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    Number 1. S/N 19566.
    Number 2. S/N 18173.
    Number 3. S/N 21496.

    Ivan.
     

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  35. Roy

    Roy Registered User
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    Serial no. 38382 with gimbal suspension, suspension guard, and lower block clip. No serial no. on pendulum.
     

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  36. lesbradley

    lesbradley Registered User
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    Only got three at the moment, have been up to six.
    Serial Nos. 3851(wood base), 25592(standard0, 38906(4 glass)
     

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  37. any400day

    any400day Registered User
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    4 inch enamel dial dome clock
    3 ball pendulum #26
    Backplate #1607
    SN 33487
     

    Attached Files:

  38. John Hubby

    John Hubby Principal Administrator
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    Vic, thanks very much for starting these threads for specific clocks. I am going to try a "stickie" later that will point to all the various threads so to post any maker's clock you should be able to open the stickie and then click on the thread ID to go right there for posting and reference. If this works, I'll try doing some reference posts in those threads.

    I think the pendulum with your clock is either a Koma or Wurther early 1950's model. I posted in another Hauck thread that to our knowledge Hauck never had a 4-Ball pendulum, although we have documented the 3-Ball as Hauck with a 1911 DRGM patent. One of the reasons for concluding Hauck didn't have a 4-Ball is that JUF patented that design in November 1909 and did not license it to anyone else; further no other maker had a 4-Ball adjustable pendulum prior to the JUF patent. The patent was valid from November 1909 to November 1915, which is after the date Hauck stopped making 400-Day clocks (1914).
     
  39. any400day

    any400day Registered User
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    4 glass Mahogany case
    11½” Height X 7¾” Width X 6½” Depth
    Chrono Pendulum #6
    SN 26179
     

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  40. any400day

    any400day Registered User
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    4 glass case
    10” Height X 5¾” Width X 5” Depth
    Chrono Pendulum #6
    SN 21512
     

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  41. any400day

    any400day Registered User
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    Bandstand / Louvre model
    Silvered Dial
    3 Ball Pendulum #26
    Top block suspension Guard & Bottom block clip
    SN 37020
     

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  42. daveR

    daveR Registered User
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    My two Haucks to add to the list !
    No 1: solid disc pendulum, 3.75" white enamel dial marked "excell" . Has pendulum guard but missing the block holder
    Ser No 37836.
    No 2: Chronometer style pendulum, silvered dial marked " O.Freichel u son Prahran." No pendulum guard. Has the unusual curved anchor pin
    Ser No 30940.
     

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  43. John Hubby

    John Hubby Principal Administrator
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    Vic and Dave, thanks for posting your clocks. One detail I would like to highlight is the change in upper bracket design that occurred late in Hauck's production, by my data in early 1912. Specifically, the first design for suspension bracket No. 17 (Repair Guide reference) has a simple notch in either side of the "U" shaped gimbal support as can be seen in Dave's clock. For that design, the gimbal has matching pins mounted in either side of the gimbal, resting by gravity in the two notches. In Vic's clock, that changed to having machine screws through the "U" shaped gimbal support, screwed into the gimbal itself.

    The advantages of the later design are obvious, that the gimbal can only be removed by unscrewing the two screws. In the original design the gimbal can just be lifted off and of course be lost if the owner or repair person doesn't take care to keep the parts together. Those who collect these clocks can attest that many times the whole suspension unit is missing unfortunately including the gimbal and upper block.

    This change appears to have been made between serial number 35219 and 35713, the latter and nearly all after that one having this bracket design, the former and all previous examples being the original notch design.

    I'm attaching a combined photo or Vic and Dave's parts so the difference is easily seen. The one on the left is from clock serial number 30940, the one on the right from clock serial number 37020.
     

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  44. pahel

    pahel Registered User

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    for the database:
    [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Nr. 37355, no SN on the pendulum base.[/FONT]
     

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  45. John Hubby

    John Hubby Principal Administrator
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    Thanks for posting, Pahel, a very nice example. Made in 1912 based on the serial number.
     
  46. MR55

    MR55 Registered User

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    I have never seen before. A closed ring on Hauck pendulum.
    Attached some pictures.
    Matthias
     

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  47. lesbradley

    lesbradley Registered User
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    It is not bimetallic either. I suggest it was made up later as the originals were damaged or lost.
     
  48. John Hubby

    John Hubby Principal Administrator
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    Matthias, thanks for posting. This is a very interesting clock from the following standpoints:
    • This clock has the highest serial number yet documented in my data, and would have been made in late 1914 based on the information I have developed.
    • The silvered dial, while similar to the same style dial found on a number of Louvre model and 4-Glass clocks made earlier, is the first one of this size (approx. 2-5/8" Ø) to be documented.
    • The pendulum, while not the same as the patented version, may in fact have been made by Hauck.
    The fact that there are two items not previously seen on Hauck clocks causes me to consider that both are there because this was at or near the end of their production. In those circumstances manufacturers will do many things to save costs in order to continue in business.

    The dial is much cheaper than the porcelain dials normally found with Hauck clocks, and the pendulum uses what appears to me to be original stock parts for everything but the ring and the two machine screws that hold it in place. The finish of the two screws as well as the ring itself seems to me to be better than most hobbyists can achieve, although that is still possible.

    Altogether a very interesting clock!
     
  49. MR55

    MR55 Registered User

    Sep 4, 2008
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    Hello John,

    there is still another feature as an indication for a cheap production.
    I know these parts only with screw threads.
    Matthias
     

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  50. John Hubby

    John Hubby Principal Administrator
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    Sep 7, 2000
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    Very good observation, I've also only seen threaded finials. Hopefully we will see another of these "end of run" Hauck clocks again to confirm the details.
     

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