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Post your LFS clocks here

soaringjoy

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This clock came off Ebay and arrived in a terrible shape, due
to lack of proper packaging, but that's a different story.
Lorenz Furtwängler Söhne clocks don't show up very often here
on the board and having some thyme, I thought, I might as well
post it and point out some details. ;)
LFS clocks have, no doubts about it, at least the same finishing
standards as Lenzkirch clocks, on both movements and cases.
For instance, there are fine machined quick-out barrels with barrel
hooks riveted in. Hooks, not just mere rivets. Lids snap back on with
hand pressure only.
The pressure springs for the strike levers are fixed to threaded brass
pieces, that screw into the plates and the springs fit brass collets on
the levers.
Canon pinion, hour and minute wheel have index dots for easy positioning.
All parts are numbered, or have have the typical file marks and the winding
arbors are marked to fit the appropiate barrel.
The rest is "state of the art"
The clock is fairly large, about 14 x 13 inches with a 7 inch dial and is
finished in oak. There are almost no catalogues available to the public;
my best guess to dating would be ca. 1925.

Enjoy the pics. ;)

Jurgen

DSC07641.jpg DSC07631.jpg DSC07632.jpg DSC07608.jpg DSC07613.JPG DSC07610.JPG DSC07615.jpg
 
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Tony10Clocks

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There's a little bit of an artical HERE if it helps any. It looks like a nice solid movement. Nice one
 
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Richard T.

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Hello Jurgen,

If I may I would like to add another LFS clock to your thread. We don't have a separate thread as far as I know, I guess because we don't see that many.

This is a really nice clock and the case does make me think of Lenzkirch. Two photos of the case and then the movement on a test stand. The pendulum hangs in the back of the case.

I am currently working on another LFS tall case movement but have not seen the case.

Best,

Richard T.
 

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soaringjoy

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Splendid clock!
LFS was well connected to the Furtwangen School of clockmaking
which was trying to get the clock industry to a certain level of
standards around 1850.
Beside that, they were innovative about case making and styles, too.
Jurgen
-> posts merged by system <-
There's a little bit of an artical HERE if it helps any. It looks like a nice solid movement. Nice one
Yeah, well thanks for the link.
It's one of those, that always gets me upset, because it's full
of typos and errors; sorry, don't want to offense you.

Too long a story for tonight.
The company name was Lorenz Furtwängler Söhne, without the "&",
meaning "sons of L. Furtwängler". Oh my. :cool:

Jurgen
 
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Tony10Clocks

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Yeah, well thanks for the link.
It's one of those, that always gets me upset, because it's full
of typos and errors; sorry, don't want to offense you.

Too long a story for tonight.
The company name was Lorenz Furtwängler Söhne, without the "&",
meaning "sons of L. Furtwängler". Oh my. :cool:

Jurgen
No offence taken, It's just one of things you find on google
 
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soaringjoy

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Yes, the internet has a somewhat fatal tendancy to multiply
errors and mistakes.
They do show up again and again and are even quoted in newest
publications, leading to new quotes and misquotes.
At least it's good to know, that even some other sites refer to our
MB for genuine information. ;)
A lot is known about the LFS story, almost all in German, though.

Jurgen
 
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Ulan

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Hi Gents,
The topic reminds me the only one LFS clock I have.
I love that because of hand made descriptions on it.
I enclose a few pictures:
http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/9003/nascianie.jpg
By ulan65 at 2010-09-21
262.jpg
By ulan65 at 2010-09-21
263.jpg
By ulan65 at 2010-09-21
http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/3874/nrskrzyni.jpg
By ulan65 at 2010-09-21

It seems to be the complet.
The bigger weight is not orginal, and alarm weight is missing. Still I hope to find orginal.


And tipical questions: is the clock in some catalog to identify type and production date? Before 1914? Or maybe 1894? ( that suggests the description, if I read it in correct way?)
DR Patent - what was patented?
The serial number is 4437 and H is the signature of clock maker/assembler, right? What about the abbreviations, other numbers and drawing?
 
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soaringjoy

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Ulan, I suppose this is the Deutsches Reichspatent (D.R.P.).
It was for the centrifugical alarm with repitition.
I will get back to you "next year" with more pictures and
infos on your clock - called a "postman's alarm" in English,
or more plainly in German, a "Schottenwecker".
You might be interested in this thread:
https://mb.nawcc.org/showthread.php?t=81818
Jurgen
 

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Steven Thornberry

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I have added a shortcut to this thread in the Post Your Maker's Clock sticky at the top of the Clocks forum. For convenience, I have also moved this thread from the New Acquisitions forum.
 

Ulan

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Chris - WOW.
For me it looks as Dutch&German eclectic style!
I love that heavy, brass cases!
I have no clue that LFS had so big product portfolio.
 

soaringjoy

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Ulan, here is an undated LFS catalogue picture showing weights and dimensions
of your postman's alarm clock. LFS had 7 models listed at that time.
The other pics are of another original clock.
Jurgen

Postman.jpg LFS06a.jpg LFS02.jpg LFS02a.jpg
 

Librarian

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I'll add the pictures of the clock from the library I work in for those who haven't seen my original thread.

It was built before 1914 in Furtwangen by Lorenz Furtwängler Söhne. The case style has elements of "Gründerzeit", or "Alt Deutsch".

Once again, thank you very much Richard T. and Jurgen for the data provided! :)
 

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LenzkirchFan

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Hi Soaringjoy,

Your comment comparing LFS to Lenzkirch got my attention. I have to give you a nod of agreement from the "LenzkirchFan"!

I bought an LFS bracket clock in a cherry case to give to my mother-in-law for Christmas a couple of years ago. The movement and case were of very high quality. I also own an LFS grandfather clock movement - everything except the case. It is heavy, well made and well finished. Just like the several Lenzkirch grandfather movements that I own.

Many of their grandfather clocks are the open well type which were beautiful and still desirable! Many are designed similar to Lenzkirch grandfather clocks and they also have quality engraved dials like some Lenzkirch clocks.

LFS clocks have the quality to stand out on their own. Thanks for starting this thread!

Steve
 

soaringjoy

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Glad you agree, Steve. :thumb:

This type of weird double decker Westminster chimes movement and clock does not show up often; I believe I've seen only 3 through the years in learning about clocks.
There's not much I could say about it, but do note the third winding arbor over the "12".
LFS also had a more contemporary Westminster movement type, using a combination of a
coil and a rod gong with a 1912 D.R.P.

Jurgen





Furtwaengler 2 003.jpg Furtwaengler 2 002.jpg Furtwaengler 001.jpg Furtwaengler 002-1.jpg
 
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John Hubby

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Here is my LFS torsion pendulum year-clock, made in mid-late 1880's under license of the Jehlin patent DRP 2437. This patent and other Harder patents were purchsed by H. A. L. DeGruyter from Anton Harder in January 1883. DeGruyter evidently entered into an agreement for license of these to German makers sometime in 1883 with Hugo Knobloch of Berlin, who had been representing Harder since early 1881. There are at least two makers believed to have taken up the license including LFS and Hanau Uhrenfabrik.

This clock may be unique as no others have yet been identified. If any viewer knows of another such clock, please contact me by PM or email. Although it may be a unique LFS clock, the movement is virtually identical to movements used by J. J. Meister shown in his 1892 Swiss patent No. 05172 for the first temperature compensating pendlum for torsion clocks. I am including a copy of the patent drawing for comparison to the LFS movement.

Note that the movement is "upside down" with the mainspring barrel at the top and escapement at the bottom. Also, there is no motion works per se, the hour hand is driven from the third wheel and the minute arbor is the usual fourth wheel at the center of the movement. The only significant differences from the Meister drawing are the anchor "pin" is located at the front of the movement to accomodate a back mounting of the movement for a wall clock, and there is no rating adjustment device as shown for the Meister version. Otherwise the movement layout and operation is identical between the two. There is no mark, stamp, or serial number on the movement, other than repair marks, the last one in 1942. A direct comparison with an actual Meister movement will be posted at a later date.

The pendulum is certainly unique, being two blown glass balls that are internally silvered and then filled with lead shot for mass. The adjusting mechanism is a center rod with cross-bar held in position by a regulating nut (lower) and lock nut (upper). As can be seen the suspension spring is quite long and made of steel. The clock keeps remarkably good time in my home with temperature fluctuations between about 66º F (winter night) to 78º F (summer day). Replacement would be a problem, most likely needing to slit a watch mainspring to get the required length and cross-section.

The photos below include 1) Front View, 2) Dial, 3) Pendulum & Plaque, 4) Movement back plate, 5) Escapement, 6) Meister Patent, 7) Case back stamps, 8) Palisander
LFS Front.jpg LFS Dial 1.jpg LFS Pend:Plaque 2.jpg LFS Back Plate 1.jpg LFS Escape 3.jpg 05172_Meister_Drawing.jpg LFS Logo 2.jpg LFS Palisander 1.jpg
The case back info includes a paper label above the "21" that gives the case material, "Palisander" or Rosewood. It is actually rosewood veneer but beautifully done with the trim being ebonized mahohany.
 
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soaringjoy

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Not bad, John. No, not bad at all!
A five star post... :mytnx::mytnx::mytnx::mytnx::mytnx:
It is indeed a sight, one has to get accustomed to, like the lack of pistons in a Wankel engine.
Jurgen
 

MUN CHOR-WENG

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This LFS clock is housed in a very simple and plain looking case.

The 2-train 8-day movement and the gong are of very good quality.

The silvered metal dial has engraved Arabic numerals.

Mun C.W.

CIMG3021.JPG IMG_3201.JPG CIMG3024.JPG IMG_3197.JPG CIMG3028.JPG

.
 

soaringjoy

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Mun, I suppose this is your clock, the model 760a, from an undated
catalogue. The clock was also offered with a three train 3/4 or 4/4
Westminster movement.
Just post WW 1, I guess, 1920, perhaps.
The movement is a 14 day type.
Jurgen

LFS760a.jpg
 

MUN CHOR-WENG

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Mun, I suppose this is your clock, the model 760a, from an undated
catalogue. The clock was also offered with a three train 3/4 or 4/4
Westminster movement.
Just post WW 1, I guess, 1920, perhaps.
The movement is a 14 day type.
Jurgen

115446.jpg
Hello Jurgen,

Thanks for providing useful catalogue information on my clock.
I had always assumed it is a 7 or 8 day clock and not a 14-day clock
as I alwalys wind it every week together with my other 7-day wall
clocks.

The bevelled diamond pattern on half the front glass shown in the catalogue picture
is very attractive. I have come across a very similar model but with the entire
front glass decorated with bevelled diamond pattern along with brass strip inlaid.
I cannot say for sure if the plain glass of my clock is a replacement or it
was originally fitted as I do not find any sign that it had been replaced.

While the case may look plain and simple however the quality of the carpentry work is of the highest order .
Overall I would rate LFS clocks as among the best mass produced German made clocks.

LFS paid merticulous attention in making many of the clock parts including small
ones such as the fly shown below with the movable weight to regulate the speed of the strike train.

Mun C.W.

IMG_3192.JPG
 

soaringjoy

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It's always a treat for me to see all the small fine details, the movements
show up with.
The thumb screw for the pendulum spring, for instance.
Jurgen
 

Charles E. Davis

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This clock was dropped off at our thrift store of the retirement home run by fellow residents. I was asked to do some research prior to offering it for sale.
The clock was from an unknown donor and was well packed for storage, stuffed with 1988 New York Times newspaper. Several people seemed to have some clue where it came from, but none of their stories added up to fit the circumstances. I later saw a pencil name on the back of the pendulum which tied it to a resident who had recently died. She had moved into the complex around the period of the newspaper and she and her husband had a substantial collection. I helped her with a couple after the move in, but she tended to be a recluse and didn't socialize often.The clock is 31 inches tall and 15 inches wide .
The movement is three train with what I would term a modified Grande Sonnerie. It strikes all of the quarters on two gong bim-bam. They are followed only on the hour and the half hour with the strike, also on another two rods struck together.
There are a number of strange things about this clock.
The trade mark matches the one registered 1881 and is about 3/10th of an inch or 7.5 cm.The serial number (?) under the trade mark 418 is also very low. In smaller stamp you can see 47 off to the right.
There is a grey iron casting for the gong base with which adds the letters A G below but within the teeth circle. This would indicate 1895 as the earliest dating.
Does any of this help with dating?
 

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soaringjoy

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Nice to see you dropping in here, Charlie.

You have already gathered information about the company
and the movement, which unfortunately may be everything
you can get.
The reason is because, although the LFS company and family histories
have been documented very well and most completely, there is almost
no information available for the public on movement types or clock models.
Most archive documents were lost or tossed after the liquidation.
LFS was in fact much more innovative in constructing their movements, than,
for example other well known quality-makers of the time. I suppose, they enjoyed
playing around with designs, improvements, etc., even in tiny details.
To make things worse for researching certain specific clocks, is that LFS had always
had their own casemaking facility and their designs were quite often "off" of the
mainstreams. Some of their models appear to be "younger", than they actually are,
others look "older". All of this makes dating extremely difficult, almost always ending
up in guesstimates. IMHO, the clock you show might be ca. 1910, according to the
fashionable geometric patterns.
I have not seen that (horo-sexy) movement before, but it suggests, LFS used a new
series of SNs on new movement types. It may be a link between known petite
sonnerie and 4/4 chiming movements. The 47 is pendulum length in cm.

And yes, the company was changed to an Aktiengesellschaft (AG),
a stock holders corporation, in 1895.

BTW:
There are about 1000 articles concerning LFS (excluding ads) in the DUZ and I am just
starting to try to find some loose ends. ~o

Jurgen
 

MUN CHOR-WENG

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The bevelled diamond pattern on half the front glass shown in the catalogue picture
is very attractive. I have come across a very similar model but with the entire
front glass decorated with bevelled diamond pattern along with brass strip inlaid.


Mun C.W.
I contacted the clock owner Mr Lau Cheong Wong to get some pictures of that clock for posting ( with his permission ) on the MB. He kindly oblidged and on receiving the pictures I found that the design of the lower front glass panel of the clock was the same as the one shown in catalogue picture provided by Jurgen. It is therefore unlike the one that I had described in my earlier post. I apologize for providing the wrong discription.

Anyway, pictures of that clock are shown below.
The serial number on the back plate is 91646, a difference of 124 units as compared with my clock s/n 91522 .

Mun C.W.
_DSC1.jpg _DSC6.jpg _DSC5-3.jpg
 

Chris Radano

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Yesterday, I had received a hanging clock with an excellent + unusual "piggy-back" 1/4 chiming movement (similar to Jurgen's). The clock arrived from the UK, everything intact. Here are some photos of the movement, I'd like to post photos of the Vienna style case later.
 

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soaringjoy

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Thanks for sharing, Chris.
I am hoping to post a "regular" 4/4 Westminster soon; chimes on rods, strike on
a coil gong.
In the meantime, I've finished this plainer type of "box clock", mid 1920s, I presume.
The movement already has quick out barrels and the pic shows the pounds of "gunk" in
the barrels - a good example for the cleaning necessity of springs.
Again, I must note, the sound and resonance of this simple coil gong makes my standard (big)
DUFA with its Largo Gong sound "cheap"... :)


DSC07721.JPG DSC07719.JPG DSC07716.JPG DSC07730.JPG DSC07727.JPG DSC07714.JPG LFS(1).JPG
 
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Chris Radano

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Here are some more photos of the 1/4 chiming clock above. Date 1920s.

Mahogany Vienna-style case is 34" H (needs touch-up). Vienna-style pendulum bob filled with large sized shot. One thing I noticed, was even the insides of the cast wall stabilizers are signed between the screw holes.

Sorry the murky appearance of some of the photos. I thank our bright, clear, dry weather (sarcasm!)
 

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soaringjoy

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I would think your clock is pre WW 1, Chris.
LFS were very creative and innovative in case designs and well ahead of the mainstream.
The case model is shown, is some minor changes in details, in a 1915 catalogue,
all along with the rectangular glass panels on the sides.
Then, consider, the Westminster movements came up in Germany, about 1908,
which may have led LFS to "improvise" a movement, while designing a new one.
That new "regular" three train movement must have appeared some time later.
What I can already say now, is that it's pretty big and heavy... :)
 

Chris Radano

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Thank you, Jurgen. That's good information. For 34" H, it is fairly large considering the case thickness. But, not too bad to carry through a doorway:). What a wonderful machine :thumb:
 

soaringjoy

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This LFS Westminster wall clock has been in my stack for quite some time
and I did avoid it because it was lot's of work to do on it.
Now it's done, on the wall and running strong. ;)

Some details to clock and movement.
It's an "ordinary" three train Westminster set-up, but in a typical LFS quality.
The front of the movement follows the general Viennese rack and snail type, with the
snail being turned once an hour by a star wheel. Plates are 139 x 128 mm.
The chimes side barrel is "king size", diameter is 70 mm, weight is 480 gramms, which
is just over 1 lb.
All parts are marked with a lot number, and all arbors have 4 file marks, as does the case.
The spring barrels are "quick out" types and lids snap in on finger pressure.
Time and strike train springs had banged, but luckily only sheared the ratchet wheels and
bent some pins. Spring failure was caused by unproper service; the inner coils had slipped
from the arbors.
The chime side has the hammers placed nicely in a solid brass block, hammer stems held with
set screws there. A silencer lifts the hammer from the drum; thus the train turns freely and the
chimes are always in sequence.
The combination of rod and coil gong makes the clock a bit special and the sound is terrific.

The D.R.P. number of the movement tells us, the patent was effective from Sept. 1911 and the
enclosed drawings did help a lot, when reassembling the movement, because they had pointed
out the correct wheel positions.

DSC07816.JPG DSC07776.JPG DSC07785.JPG DSC07787.JPG DSC07790.JPG DSC07791.JPG DSC07806.JPG DSC07810.JPG

The clock was retailed in Annecy, France.
 

Bill Stuntz

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:eek: As a newbie, I am ABSOLUTELY ASTOUNDED by the perfect beauty of these movements as compared to almost ALL the others I've seen here! And ESPECIALLY when compared to my ST124. WOW!!! UNBELIEVABLE!
 

Kevin W.

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Nice looking clock Jurgen and your work on it looks great, any idea how many hours you put into it.
 

chimeclockfan

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That's a nice Westminster. Can you record the chimes for us?
 

chimeclockfan

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Ooh, what a shame. I bet the chimes and hour gong sound nice, regardless.
 

Chris Radano

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I found this at a local auction. I thought it might be a local clock, but I did find a Camerer Cuss & Co. label inside the back door.

Inside this unassuming, but impressive in size (8" dial) oak art deco case...was found a quality large sized chiming movement. The movement of this clock is just under 6 lbs. Serial # 63791.

The clock is unrestored as found. Take a gander.
 

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Chris Radano

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It will be a while before I do anything to the movement. I had to buy it though, cheaper than a Junghans, Kienzle, or similar chiming clock....with a much better movement. At least the clock is here, probably will not see another LFS chiming clock soon- this clock was the first one sold locally I've seen. The time to buy one is when you see it. The large oak wall clock earlier in this thread was found in the local area, as well.
 

soaringjoy

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In the meantime, I have found your Westminster wall clock in a catalogue (undated).
It's the model 754 / 128W. They offered 4 different movements and gongs.

Nothing on your bracket clock, except that they were listed as "English Styles" and,
considering the evolution of the case styles, it should be ca. early 1920s.
 

David B Pendley

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Here's one I had to replace click spring in. I'll try to get case photos when it goes back to customer. Thanks. LFS 1.jpg LFS 2.jpg LFS 3.jpg LFS 4.jpg
 

mickthefish

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Hi there all, here a couple of pictures of a recent accuisition of mine a Lorenz westminster chiming wall clock which was originally retailed by Camerer Cuss, has a really beautiful sounding movement, the chiming part of the clock isn't working, but I am not really that bothered, I am quite happy just listening to that lovely movement.
 

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soaringjoy

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Thanks for posting, mick.
It's surely one of the LFS models one spots immediately, even at a distance.
The clock is listed as No. 3668 in the No. 36 LFS catalogue, which is unfortunately
not dated. Mid to late 1920s, I'd presume.
Apity the chimes don't work; they can become addicting. :)

LFSNo36.jpg
 

mickthefish

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Thanks for posting, mick.
It's surely one of the LFS models one spots immediately, even at a distance.
The clock is listed as No. 3668 in the No. 36 LFS catalogue, which is unfortunately
not dated. Mid to late 1920s, I'd presume.
Apity the chimes don't work; they can become addicting. :)

150183.jpg
yes it would be nice if they worked, the drive spring for that train needs replacing but as I have never attempted repairs to that level (ie spring replacement) I am reluctant to risk spoiling such a beautiful sounding clock.
 

Philip0603

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Hi to all, came accross this wonderful resource whilst trying to find out more about one of the clocks I own. I will post pictures as soon as the battery on the camera has recharged, but in the mean time a bit of what I know.

The clock was purchased in 1914 as a wedding gift to my maternal grand parents. As far as I can tell it was made in 1913. I don't know who would have retailed the clock, but my family were located in the Northern Mill towns of Nelson & Cone. It could have been bought in Manchester as my grandfather would have traveled to the city regularly. I would have thought it would have been slightly more expensive than the local clocks.

It is a two train striking on a gong. I recently had the clock seriously overhauled and restored by Mr Gale who operates from near St Austel. (he also restored my Becker Vienna). The clock looks as good as it did the day it left the shop. I have known it all my life as it passed to my paternal grandparents upon the decease of my maternal grandparents.

The case is slightly unusual in that is is Oak rather than the more usual Mahogany with a diamond shaped beveled window to observe the pendulum. The clock is completely original (apart from the re-silvering of the dial and a good clean). I love the tone of the chime as it is very mellow, however when it was away with Mr Gale he had it running and the chime was dreadful, until it returned to my house, when the tone changed. I think it was glad to be home.

Things I need to know, if at all. What is the correct term for the style of the clock, whilst I wind it weekly with my others, I noted elsewhere that the movement could be 14 day, I may try not winding it for a couple of weeks to see. I will try to photograph the marks, I would be grateful of anyone can date the clock more accurately and supply any further information.

Thanks in advance.
 
Last edited:

soaringjoy

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Feb 12, 2009
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Welcome to the Message Board, Philip.

Upload some pictures of the whole clock and the movement to show us what you have,
then we can go from there and see what we can contribute.