Post your Lenzkirch clocks here.

Discussion in 'General Clock Discussions' started by Mike306p/Ansoniaman, Jul 6, 2006.

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  1. Uhren Bill

    Uhren Bill Registered User

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    Thanks Zep, good info. The label is hard to read, even if you understand German. I did realize it would take more than a year to accumulate that many medals, just couldn't read the dates. The movement definately looks Lenzkirch, and some early ones were not stamped with a trademark. Once again it appears the movement did not start out with the case but it is a good blend. The schutzt on the bracket arm is seen on one of the Lenzkirch trademarks as Geschutzt so it appears at least it is a Lenzkirch conglomeration.
     
  2. SZZZL

    SZZZL Registered User

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    This may be my best/luckiest find!?!?!?!?!?
    Bought this bound together by strings...see first pic
    It was in many pieces but all clean breaks where the old glues just failed
    I have now put all the pieces back.

    Is this truly a 1855 clock? It doesn't seem to be that old but....
    Everything appears original..no extra movemnt holes in the case
    Glass is old...The finials fit properly but seem a bit odd
    The bottom ones are huge and the top ones small,..... is that right? I would have thought the reverse but the dowels don't fit if I try to reverse them.

    The one thing missing is on the top of the crown..there is a slot there for something...not sure what. I placed the key there for the photo..it seems original as well.


    Anyone know what I have here:???::???:??
     

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  3. Oled

    Oled Registered User

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    Greetings, SZZZL,

    Although it is a very nice looking Lenzkirch, it is not from 1850-s =). Notice the trademark on the movement, it appeared not earlier then 1875. As we know, a lot of "2-nd quality" Lenzkirch movements (notice the digit "2" to the right of the Lenzkirch logo) had specific serial numbers that were not in the "general line" of numbers. This was a separate count and it was re-started by Lenzkirch several times. For example I saw many XXX and XXXX numbers with 2 or 2Q dated around c. 1900.

    What could be said about your clock is that it was probably made after 1880: notice the gong bracket - it is a well known Lenzkirch "DRP 1880" type. Look at the complete version, shown by our member comfish:

    attachment.jpg

    BR,
    Oleg
     
  4. LenzkirchFan

    LenzkirchFan Registered User
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    Here is the newest addition to my collection. A Lenzkirch Model 313 in awesome condition!

    Steve
     

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  5. Scottie-TX

    Scottie-TX Registered User
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    Very elegant indeed! Nice find. Congrats!
     
  6. Pyroman

    Pyroman Registered User

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    Hi All!

    My name is Igor, I'm from Kiev, Ukraine and I "the newbie" on this mb.

    I have decided to move up this thread by posting my first (and I think not last) Lenzkirch clock in Biedermeier Style.

    Best regards, Igor.
     

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  7. zepernick

    zepernick Deceased

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    Greetings Igor -- and welcome to the NAWCC's Message Board. And Lenzkirch lovers are most welcome!

    You have a very nice, indeed, elegant example. Tastes of course vary today, just as they did then. Still, the slender clean lines of this clock are, I believe, especially appealing. The case-brass mounting bracket is also handsome.

    Lenzkirch (according to Lenzkirch) introduced that trademark in 1875, and with movements bearing the serial number of 227,000 and above. So you have one of the earlier "new" trademarked movements.

    Actual (as opposed to estimated) production figures for 1875 were 31,117. And for 1880, 30,205 movements. This means your movement dates from around 1877.

    Look forward to seeing more clocks from you!

    Regards
    Zepernick
     
  8. soaringjoy

    soaringjoy Registered User

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    Hello Igor,
    a warm welcome from me, too!
    Yes, we love clocks in general and Lenzis are especially nice,
    so keep them coming up. ;)
    Jurgen
     
  9. Pyroman

    Pyroman Registered User

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    Zepernick, soaringjoy thanks for You warm greetings!

    Zepernik, I thank you for the information about my clock, and I hope,
    not only this beautiful piece can please :clap: "inhabitants" of this mb.

    Jurgen, I agree with you. Lenzis is perfect manufacturing produce clock :thumb:

    Best Regards, Igor
     
  10. chorisia1943

    chorisia1943 Registered User
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    Lenzkirch westminster wallclock

    Lenskirch enthusiasts will probably have interest in this westminster wall clock,engraved dial;number767120;Lenskirch westminster wallclocks dont turn up often here in the UK, cetainly not as early as this one aquired on Ebay a couple of years ago 'buyer collects' ...I had it courier collected so a modest investment, I was fortunate clock buyers were resting that week!

    lenzkirch A.JPG lenskirk movement front a.jpg lenskirk movement back.jpg
     
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  11. Scottie-TX

    Scottie-TX Registered User
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    Re: Lenzkirch westminster wallclock

    Sweet. Very nice. I had no idea Lenzkirch made clocks like this. Nice addition. Congrats and thanks for sharing.
     
  12. Richard T.

    Richard T. Deceased
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    Re: Lenzkirch westminster wallclock

    A different style from the usual Lenzkirch. The serial number is actually 1 Million 767120.

    Thanks for posting.

    Best,

    Richard T.
     
  13. LenzkirchFan

    LenzkirchFan Registered User
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    Re: Lenzkirch westminster wallclock

    Excellent clock!! These box clock movements are just smaller versions of the bigger grandfather clock movements. I have a Lenzkirch Westminster grandfather movement just like this one except bigger to handle the three weights instead of being spring driven.

    Congratulations on snagging this one! Excellent quality through out!

    LenzkirchFan
     
  14. zepernick

    zepernick Deceased

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    Re: Lenzkirch westminster wallclock

    A handsome Lenzie indeed!

    Lenzkirch had surprisingly few German patents. The DRP on this one refers to DRP 231204, granted in 1911, with protection back dated to 1910. The illustration below is from the patent description.

    As LenzkirchFan points out (and it's good to see you on the MB, Steve) there were Hausuhren or hall clock versions of the design. These movements were also sold as "lose Werke" to the trade, that is, independently of cases. The illustration below is from a 1913 catalogue for Hausuhren movements, in the DGC series of catalogues on CDs.

    Zepernick
     

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  15. Pyroman

    Pyroman Registered User

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    Hi, guys!

    I have posted my second Lenzies. It's miniature with number 2 in Lenzkirch Catalogue. Movement has serial number 93240 on back plate and top of back side of dial. I've disassembled movement, cleared and oiled it, cleared case and assembled clock.

    Regards,
    Igor
     

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  16. soaringjoy

    soaringjoy Registered User

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    Re: Lenzkirch westminster wallclock

    Chorisia,
    be assured, Lenzis like that one don't show up
    often over here in Germany either. ;)
    A good buy!
    Jurgen
     
  17. soaringjoy

    soaringjoy Registered User

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    All of a sudden, there's a Lenzkirch boom here on the board;
    Murphy's Law I guess.
    This is one of the youngtimers, a No. 344, I personally call "Lenzkirch light".
    Not nearly as eloborate as earlier models, they are often missed by
    collectors, hidden in the mass of other box clocks.
    A clock that needs a second glance to see the quality of the details.
    Note the adjusting piece for the crutch fit on the pendulum leader,
    pendulum bob front and back pieces soldered.
    As usual, the movement "flys" together, barrel caps just snap on by finger pressure.
    Very soft tick, silently running strike. Two hammers strike on a double
    coil gong - a very nice and pleasant sound.
    SN is 1 million 779059, ca. 1921, 1922, I would presume.
    Just enjoy the pics.
    Jurgen
     

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  18. zepernick

    zepernick Deceased

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    Greetings Igor and Jürgen --

    Thank you both for the postings and the great photos. Very interesting Lenzies in both cases! And spanning a half-century of Lenzkirch clocks at that.

    Not being able to identify that specific "Ideal" mark on Jürgen's is a bit frustrating.

    Would be interesting to learn if it shows up in other examples in LenzkirchFan's data bank.

    Zep
     
  19. soaringjoy

    soaringjoy Registered User

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    If it helps, Zep, I'm frustrated too.
    I have found the No. 343 and 345 in a 1913 catalogue. Oh yes! :=
    Which, in turn would put a question mark on dating, because, logically,
    No. 344 would be between both. But we do know, that "logic" doesn't
    always work on clocks...
    The movement is not a typical "French" style anymore, it seems
    Lenzkirch was trying to go their own way - even if too late.
    As I see it, the movement is a class better (relatively spoken) than
    the AGUL F 4 types.
    For the records, plates are 106.5 x 107.0 mm, 32mm between plates
    and 2mm thick. That doesn't add up to 3.5 inches - it's 4 3/16 inches.
    Jurgen
     
  20. LenzkirchFan

    LenzkirchFan Registered User
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    Congratulations Igor! You have an awesome model 2 mini and it is truly a fine Lenzkirch clock!

    Hi Zep, as far as the "IDEAL 3 1/2" Work", it is a Lenzkirch mark. The earliest that I find the mark and this movement is serial number 1,689,311 and the latest one that I have found is 1,802,750. None have shown up after that I have found.

    There are a few AGUL F4 movements that show up in serial numbers in the 900,000 range but they don't show up again until serial numbers in the 1,800,000 range. So the IDEAL 3 1/2" Works were used before they started using the AGUL F4 to any great extent. So that tells me that the F4 movement was probably a little cheaper to build than the 3 1/2" work. This fits Jurgen’s statement:
    “The movement is not a typical "French" style anymore, it seems
    Lenzkirch was trying to go their own way - even if too late.
    As I see it, the movement is a class better (relatively spoken) than
    the AGUL F 4 types.”
    because Lenzkirch was trying to find ways to cut expenses and stay competitive.

    More and more interesting information is showing up in the data that I have been collecting on Lenzkirch movements. I have information on over 2,500 Lenzkirch movements now.
    Thank you everyone for posting great pictures of your Lenzkirch clocks and movements on this site!

    Steve
     
  21. zepernick

    zepernick Deceased

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    Thank you Steve!

    Really great information. And do feel better, yes:), knowing that the "Ideal" is Lenzkirch's.

    And congratulations for now having over 2,500 (!!!) Lenzie movements in your data bank.

    I suspect -- and would be curious to know if anyone has any information to the contrary --that it is not just easily the largest Lenzkirch data bank in the work. But also, along with John Hubby's Gustav Becker bank, one of the very largest for any type of clock, not just German.

    Regards
    Zep
     
  22. soaringjoy

    soaringjoy Registered User

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    High time for a good, new book. :D
    Jurgen
     
  23. chorisia1943

    chorisia1943 Registered User
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    I have seen references to 'unmarked' Lenzkirch movements, is there any information about this online? thanks
     
  24. soaringjoy

    soaringjoy Registered User

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    There have been assumptions, that some Lenzkirch movements up to
    a serial number xyz may have been unmarked, yes. Please note: assumptions.
    This was mainly forwarded by Everett's book Lenzkirch Clocks, The Unsigned Story,
    from 2006.
    Yes, there is plenty of information and reading about Lenzkirch markings history
    available online - most of it is here on the Message Board, or in NAWCC publications,
    also with online access to members. (That alone being a reason to become a member) ;)
    One of the most splendid articles concerning Lenzkirch markings ever written,
    Stevenson's "Springtime in Lenzkirch" from 2007 has most excellent and exciting
    horo-stuff on the topic.
    The most important and valuable historical asset is the "Lenzkirch Erklärung" (announcement, not ad)
    from 31. May 1883, clearly stating, that all movements are marked. If it's not marked, it's not Lenzkirch.
    The Lenzkircher Uhren-Freunde (LUF of Lenzkirch) share this opinion, to stay on the "safe side".
    So said, there possibly were some unmarked Lenzkirch movements - but by far not as many
    as sometimes being propagated elsewhere.
    The topic itself is far too vast and widespread to be accounted for by a few short posts,
    because one would have to face up to myths and legends with well researched historical
    data and evidence. This has already been done by a few enthusiasts (worldwide).
    However, the internet is one of the media, that has a strong tendancy to multiply information,
    without proof or evidence and it seems, nobody actually cares.
    This is one of the major problems we are facing on some specific subjects.

    A MB search on unmarked Lenzkirch, Erklärung, Lenzkirch markings, Lenzkirch unmarked, etc.,
    will give you enough reading for two weeks or so... :whistle:

    Jurgen
     
  25. Richard T.

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  26. Kimb

    Kimb Registered User

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    Here is my contribution to the Lenzkirch section. Unfortunately the gallery is not all original as the original was very damaged. :)
     

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  27. soaringjoy

    soaringjoy Registered User

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    A beauty! Can you show the movement with markings and SN?
     
  28. LenzkirchFan

    LenzkirchFan Registered User
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    Very nice 2 weight Kimb! Unusual case too. Can you post a picture of the movement that shows the serial number? Steve
     
  29. GEG

    GEG Registered User
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    #229 GEG, Apr 9, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 9, 2012
    Re: Post your Lenzkirch clocks here

    My sisters' Lenzkirch s/n 1730681



    Lenzkirch front.jpg Lenzkirch1.jpg Lenzkirch back.jpg

    Lenzkirch1.jpg Lenzkirch back.jpg Lenzkirch front.jpg
     
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  30. zepernick

    zepernick Deceased

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    #230 zepernick, Apr 9, 2012
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2012
    Re: Post your Lenzkirch clocks here

    Your sister has good taste in clocks. And for these "cleaner" post-turn-of-that-century Lenzkirch hall clocks especially. Am aware that many Lenzie collectors do prefer those drooling-in-decorative-brass examples from the other side. Still, if you were on-board one of the heavies taking the time and it hit a tock you'd go down like a tick :).

    The movement shows up e.g. in Lenzkirch's Katalog 353 from 1913, and you can date the clock from thereabouts as well. The CD'd catalogue itself is one of the series available from the Deutsche Gesellschaft für Chronometrie.

    The second Kat. 353 sheet for this movement -- which supplies information about the movement, including e.g. the measurements needed in a case -- is because Lenzkirch was happily selling movements to the trade, i.e. as lose Werke, not just when cased. As a result, a Lenzie movement in a hall clock does not necessarily mean that the case was also theirs.

    Regards
    Zep
     

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  31. Pyroman

    Pyroman Registered User

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    Re: Post your Lenzkirch clocks here

    Hi All!

    I decide to post 2 Lenzies. Both clocks is not my, they appeared on auctions in different countries and closed to present time.

    The 1st has a S/N 44754 and word "LENZKIRH" on back plate.
     

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  32. Pyroman

    Pyroman Registered User

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    Re: Post your Lenzkirch clocks here

    ...and 2nd with S/N 4474? and word "LENZKIRH" on back plate
     

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  33. tarant

    tarant Registered User
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    #233 tarant, Apr 21, 2012
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2012
    Re: Post your Lenzkirch clocks here

    This first one has unfortunately missing the part of the movement driving the second hand. Real compensation Ellicott's pendulum, central second hand and the shape of "Neuchateloise" (but in one piece) make these clocks really unique.

    Lenz2.jpg Lenz3.jpg Lenz1.jpg
     
  34. Pyroman

    Pyroman Registered User

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    #234 Pyroman, Apr 21, 2012
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2012
    Re: Post your Lenzkirch clocks here

    Thanks for info, Piotr. I remembered, that I saw this clock in local Poland auction. But the seller don't answer for my letter about additional photo of movement :( And now I know why ;)

    In other case both clocks (before appearing 1st logo) have a "signed" back plate with S/N 447xx. But my lenzy with S/N 93240 already doesn't has any sign :confused:
     
  35. soaringjoy

    soaringjoy Registered User

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    Re: Post your Lenzkirch clocks here

    Pyroman, I suppose you cannot get some more close-up pictures of
    the stamps on the movements?
    To tell the truth, I am somewhat sceptical at the moment...
     
  36. Pyroman

    Pyroman Registered User

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    Re: Post your Lenzkirch clocks here

    You right, I don't have more close-up pictures. Probably tarant have it.
     
  37. tarant

    tarant Registered User
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    #237 tarant, Apr 21, 2012
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2012
    Re: Post your Lenzkirch clocks here

    The photo of the signature, published on KMZiZ forum:

    LenzBP1.jpg

    Very similar clock, with the SN 47012 is presented here (-> Pendulen und Tischuhren):

    http://www.lenzkirch-uhren.de/
     
  38. Pyroman

    Pyroman Registered User

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    Re: Post your Lenzkirch clocks here

    Piotr, thanks for your sharing!
     
  39. LenzkirchFan

    LenzkirchFan Registered User
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    Re: Post your Lenzkirch clocks here


    I found the same trademark a few years ago on SN 40735. Looks like they were using this for a while with these early clocks. They all seem to have the same movement. I have not seen it so far on another style movement. Steve
     
  40. zepernick

    zepernick Deceased

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    Re: Post your Lenzkirch clocks here

    Speaking of "patented" and Lenzkirch -- the "patentirt" BTW an older spelling of today's "patentiert" -- it struck me that a collected if initial gathering of both Lenzkirch DRPs and DRGMs will not have been seen by more than a few Lenzie enthusiasts. This is because it appeared "only" in German translation in 2007, and in our Lenzkirch group's publication, Der Lenzkircher Uhrenfreund.

    As a result I thought it appropriate, perhaps even helpful :), if I made available in this Message Board manner (1) the English-language text that served as the basis for the translated LUF one. And (2) the list that accompanied it.

    Please note first, that the DUZ CDs were not yet available. The several important dating differences with German patents. That none of the several illustrations have been copied, except the list itself. And finally, that any formal use of either text or list should refer to the original article in DLU.

    Regards
    Zepernick

    ------LENZKIRCH PATENTS: 1877-1932

    Douglas K. Stevenson ©

    This article is an initial attempt to list all German patents for the Aktiengesellschaft für Uhrenfabrikation in Lenzkirch -- “Lenzkirch” for short – from 1877 to 1932. First, however, some general background information might be helpful.


    Since 2003 there has been a list of almost all German historical, horological patents from 1877 until 1932. The list includes both the 'proper' or Deutsches Reichspatent (DRP) type which were first granted in 1877 and the more numerous Gebrauchsmuster (DRGM) patents which were first issued in 1891.


    The list was made by copying all of the Patent-Nachrichten sections which appeared in issues of the Deutsche Uhrmacher-Zeitung (DUZ) between 1878 and 1932. The material in these Patent-Nachrichten sections was supplied to the DUZ by patent bureaus such as Hugo Knoblauch and Co. of Berlin.


    Importantly, horologically-relevant patents were presented not only from the dominant Klasse 83 (“Uhren und Zeitmessung”) for both the DRPs and DRGMs. Patents of horological interest also showed up in other classes, for instance classes 34l, 42o, 43a, 43b, 44a, 54g, 57 and 74.


    Without these DUZ lists, one would need to go through all the relevant issues of the Patentblatt picking out and recording all the horologically relevant patents. It has been estimated that from 1877 to 1945 there about 4000 DRPs and about 8000 DRGMs -- some 12,000 patents altogether -- from Klasse 83 alone.


    Because copies of the DUZ are not that common, an example of one of these Patent-Nachrichten sections might be helpful in seeing what information was provided. In 1906, for example, there were 24 Patent-Nachrichten sections published in a biweekly rhythm. One of the 24 is shown as Figure 2. It was dated at the Berlin offices of Knoblauch on 8 February 1906, and appeared in the 15 February 1906 issue of the DUZ.


    Gathering all of the Patent-Nachrichten from all issues of the DUZ from between 1878 when they first appeared until 1932 when they ceased required access to a complete set of the DUZ for these years. A small ad hoc group of NAWCC Members calling themselves the de.pat project raised and donated enough funds to complete the NAWCC Library & Research Center's already substantial set of the DUZ. The Library now has one of the very few complete sets in the world.


    Each of the hundreds of Patent-Nachrichten sections was then copied. The result was a two-volume “Eigenverlag” publication: Stevenson, Douglas K. 2003. Patent-Nachrichten: Patent Listings in the Deutsche Uhrmacher-Zeitung 1877-1932. Essen: Ruhrei Verlag. Volume I covers the years 1877 to 1909 and Volume II 1910 to 1932. The total came to 759 A4 pages.


    Copies were donated to several horological libraries around the world including the Deutsche Gesellschaft für Chronometrie's. The 759 pages have also been placed on CDs. The costs for the printing and postage, etc. were also donated. These listings make it relatively easy to find basic information about patents for any manufacturer by simply going through them.


    The German historical patent system had its own peculiarities. An introduction to the system as it related to German historical, horological patents, “German Patent Clues”, appeared in the April, May, and June 1998 issues of CLOCKS magazine, and was subsequently reprinted in the October 2000 NAWCC Bulletin (pages 587-603).


    Seven aspects should be briefly mentioned here:


    I. Many German Länder did grant so-called Landespatente before the first unified German (Reichs) patent law was signed on 25 May 1877 and went into effect on 1 July 1877. From 1843 until 1877, for instance, there were 26 different systems. During this period Baden issued 1569 Landespatente.


    As far as I know, no one has sought out all horological patents from before 1877 from all these Länder, or even Baden's. Yet there is no doubt that there were horological patents among them.


    I just recently discovered, for example, a Lenzkirch patent from Baden from 1864 in the Generallandesarchiv Karlsruhe (Bestand G Technische Pläne III: Patentschriften Nr. 215). It is described as “Beschreibung und zwei Zeichnungen zum Patentgesuch der Aktiengesellschaft für Uhrenfabrikation in Lenzkirch 1864” for an “Uhrwerk (Pendeluhren).”


    By going through the website for the Landesarchiv Baden-Württemberg, and then taking the Generallandesarchiv Karlsruhe option, and so on, one can actually see the original hand-written descriptions and the two drawings. The drawings are dated 26 Juli 1864 and are signed Ed. Hauser.


    The following URL is somewhat long but it will take you directly there:
    http://www.landesarchiv-bw.de/ofs21/olf/struktur.php?bestand=14172&klassi=001&anzeigeKlassi=001.015&letztesLimit=&baumSuche=&standort=&inhaltHauptframe=unterebenen&sprungId=184849&syssuche=&logik=


    II. Most national patent systems today do not have Gebrauchmuster patents, known as
    utility-modelpatents in the international English patent terminology. The DRGM type as a result tends to cause confusion among clock enthusiasts and especially those in countries such as the UK and the US which do not have them.


    III. The DRGMs offer another interesting challenge. The original material and drawings
    (die alten deutschen Reichsgebrauchsmusterunterlagen) for almost all of those from 1891 until circa 1934 – were either lost in the war or destroyed. Bibliographical information is still available from the present German patent office, but the actual files etc. are not.


    The DRGMs are not, however, unimportant. Some significant horological steps were reflected in DRGMs but not DRPs. Johann Obergfell's patent for “Stabförmige Gongfeder für Uhren” was a DRGM patent, 108469, from 1898. In addition, dating through DRGMs requires at least having the basic bibliographical information.


    IV. The various dates associated with German patents often cause confusion and have frequently led to misdatings. Under the German system, the “effective from” (patentiert vom) date for a DRP was back-dated, so to speak, towards the date of application. These dates are different from when the patent was actually granted and the number assigned (Tag der Bekanntmachung über die Erteilung des Patents). And these are different from when the actual patent specifications (Patentschrift) were issued (ausgegeben).


    As a convenient example, we can look at DRP 168709 from figure 2. It was announced as granted sometime between 22 January 1905 (the date on the previous
    Patent-Nachrichten information in the DUZ from Knoblauch) and 8 February 1906. Its “effective from” (Beginn des Patentes) date however is 26 November 1904. The Patentschrift was not ausgegeben until 15 March 1906.


    If one has a clock with DRP 168709 on it, in other words, the clock couldn't be older than late January 1905 to February 1906 at the earliest. This difference between the official date it was “effective from”, and the actual date it was announced as granted and a number assigned, can be important in dating.


    It could take several years for an application for a DRP to be approved. A short article in the Allgemeines Journal der Uhrmacherkunst (AJU) on 15 August 1895, “Wie lange dauert es, bis man ein Patent bekommt” answered its own question this way:


    “...zur Erlangung eines Patentes gehören als kürzeste Frist, die aber selten eintritt, 6 Monate; als
    längste Dauer kommen Fälle vor, bei denen zwischen dem Tage der Gesuchseingabe und der
    Zustellung der Patenturkunde mehr als drei Jahre liegen.”


    V. If one has a DRP number today, the complete specifications may be downloaded through the DPMA's Depatisnet website. Yet searches by title or date or topic or assignee for these historical DRPs are not possible. In other words, one cannot ask for all patents from Lenzkirch let alone all Klasse 83 types.


    VI. Because almost all of the DRGM files from 1891 until 1934 (up to DRGM number 1286500) were lost in the war or thrown out, none of the historical DRGMs are available through Depatisnet for this period. Nor is basic bibliographical information available on-line, even with a number.


    VII. Although the files for these historical DRGMs are no longer available, sometimes clockmakers' journals of the time did present articles about recent DRGMs, that is, as well as DRPs. What was evidently DRGM 1467 from Lenzkirch, for example, was discussed and illustrated in an AJU article in the 1 September 1892 issue, Figure 3.


    Then too, sometimes information about Lenzkirch developments which seem as if they might have been patented, but haven't yet been found to have been, were also discussed and illustrated in clockmakers' journals. A good example comes from the 15 September 1890 AJU about a Lenzkirch “Regulirungs-Mechanismus für Pendel”, Figure 4.


    What follows, Figure 5, is an inital list of all of the Lenzkirch patents of both the DRP and DRGM types that I have been able to find in the two-volumes of DUZ listings. I've undoubtably missed a few, and Knoblauch and Co. of Berlin probably did as well. I hope that it at least provides a list that we can further refine.


    The complete specifications for all the DRPs can be downloaded at no cost through Depatisnet http://depatisnet.dpma.de/. If one is also an Einsteiger as I am, one just needs to put in DE in the first box of the Veröffentlichungsnummer, and for example 14083 in the second, and that's enough.


    Please note that DRP 54093 which was listed in the Früjahr/Sommer 2005 Lenzkircher Uhrenfreund is not a Lenzkirch patent, per se. The spelling in the original titles is as it was in the DUZ. The older forms in for instance “Patentirt im Deutschen Reiche vom 31 October 1880 ab” (cf. DRP 14083) were changed as I feared that German friends would think that I still cannot spell “patentiert” and “Oktober” correctly.


    I would like to thank Frau Irene Kiehlmann, of the Technisches Informationszentrum of the Deutsches Patent- und Markenamt, in Berlin, for locating the number of what appears to be the first Lenzkirch DRP, Figure 1. The DUZ at that date early gave the title of the patent but not the number.


    --- dks 7.VI.06 ---

    -------------------------------------------

    Figure 5


    Lenzkirch Patents 1877-1931


    DRPs


    1937 Tragstuhl für Uhrwerke und damit verbundene Einrichtung für die
    Aufhängung des Pendels.
    Patentiert vom 9. Februar 1878 ab


    4328 Neurungen in der Bauart von Uhrwerken.
    Patentiert vom 21. Mai 1878 ab


    14083 Tragstuhl für Uhrwerke mit schwingendem Tonfederträger.
    Patentiert vom 31. Oktober 1880 ab


    16340 Vorrichtung an dem Anker von Uhren zur Erzielung eines
    gleichmäßigen Abfalles Ihres Ganges.
    Patentiert vom 31. Oktober 1880 ab


    231204 Viertelschlagwerk mit getrennten Werken.
    Patentiert vom 5. Juli 1910 ab


    429265 Hammerprellung für Uhrschlagwerke
    Patentiert vom 19. Juni 1925 ab


    --- x ---


    DRGMs (“Das Datum bezeichnet den Tag, vom welchem ab der Schutz bewilligt ist”)


    1467 Pendelaufhängung mit Regulirwelle.
    1. Dezember 1891


    12875 Viertelschlagwerk auf Gong, gekennzeichnet durch die mit Lederprellung
    versehenden Einfallhaken und durch die Gongträgerplatte mit Resonanzboden.
    13.März 1893


    126648 Resonanz – Gong – Rahmen.
    10. November 1899


    158533 Tonfederstock mit eingekeilter Tonfeder an Schlaguhren.
    7. Juni 1901


    253928 Auf der Hinterplatine angeordnete Hebung der Rechensperrfalle an
    geräuschlosen Schlagwerken.
    14. April 1905


    253929 Durch einenverschraubbaren Kegel bediente Prell- und Einstell-Vorrichtung
    für Hämmer an Uhrschlagwerken.
    14. April 1905


    262988 Geräuschlos bewegte Sperrfalle an Rechen-Schlagwerken, die mit einer Nase
    versehen ist, auf welche nach hinten vorstehende Hebestifte der
    Schöpferscheibe einwirken.
    5. Oktober 1905


    263823 Geräuschloser Rechenabfall an Schlagwerken mit Staffel-herbeigeführt durch
    eine mit dem Viertelrad verbundene, mit Ausschnitten versehene Scheibe.
    9. Oktober 1905


    267552 Vorrichtung zur Erzielung eines großen Hammerweges an Gong-
    Schlagwerken, gekennzeichnet durch Anordnung einer gesonderten
    Mitnehmerwelle, die mit der Hammerwelle durch Hebelübersetzung
    in Verbindung steht.
    6. Dezember 1905


    271316 Gonghammer mit Holzköper und in demselben angeordneter
    Metalleinlage.
    14. Dezember 1905


    275134 Auslösekreuz für Uhrschlagwerke, welches unter dem Einflusse einer
    Feder beim Vor- oder Zurückdrehen der Zeiger selbsttätig in die
    Ruhelage zurückkehrt.
    15. März 1906


    276289 Aus zwei Teilen bestehendes Transportpendel, bei welchem der mit
    einem Doppelhaken versehene Unterteil von einem wagrechten
    Querstück des Oberteiles auf einer Schneidekante getragen wird.
    12. März 1906


    289303 Sicherungsvorrichtung für Pendelfedern, bei welcher die Federn
    zwischen zwei schräg abwärts gerichteten Sicherungslappen schwingen.
    12. September 1906


    327661 Einsteckwerk für Zieruhrgehäuse mit achttägiger Gangdauer, bei dem
    der Antrieb des Zeigerwerkes am Wechsel erfolgt.
    11. Dezember 1907


    411845 Transportpendel mit Kreuz und Nut.
    7. Februar 1910


    419257 Viertelhammer-Ausschaltvorrichtung an Schlagwerken.
    1. April 1910


    486120 Schaltvorrichtung für Mondphasenzeiger an Uhren.
    28. Oktober 1911


    486121 Hammerausschalt-Vorrichtung an Uhren.
    28. Oktober 1911


    498719 Einstellvorrichtung an Ankergangreglern.
    12. Februar 1912


    546440 Gongstock mit einem auf den Stock lose aufgesetzten, innen messerartigen
    und außen gewölbten Zwischenglied zur Resonanzverstärkung.
    1. März 1913


    917022 Hammerprellung für Uhrschlagwerke.
    18. Juni 1925



    --- x ---
     
  41. Pyroman

    Pyroman Registered User

    Sep 8, 2011
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    Re: Post your Lenzkirch clocks here

    Thanks for interesting and helpful info, Zep. :coolsign:

    If the stamp on previous movements bind with patent theme, what you say about this, colleagues?
     

    Attached Files:

  42. soaringjoy

    soaringjoy Registered User

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    Re: Post your Lenzkirch clocks here

    Thank you for the pictures of the markings, Pyroman and Tarant.
    Looks like I really messed up this time...:cyclops:
     
  43. Pyroman

    Pyroman Registered User

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    Re: Post your Lenzkirch clocks here

    Dear colleagues. Sorry, but my last question in post #241 is hang-up :( Nobody have opinions?
     
  44. soaringjoy

    soaringjoy Registered User

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    Re: Post your Lenzkirch clocks here

    Some things take their time. I haven't seen the mark before, but Lenzkirch did have a major
    market towards Russia. Who knows what went up in those times?
    I tell you what. I'm going to Lenzkirch this weekend - with some pictures - and will ask the
    colleagues from Lenzkircher Uhren-Freunde.
    Perhaps they will know. If anybody does, they will. :whistle:
     
  45. Pyroman

    Pyroman Registered User

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    Re: Post your Lenzkirch clocks here

    Thanks Jurgen. I'll be waiting...
     
  46. Pyroman

    Pyroman Registered User

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    Re: Post your Lenzkirch clocks here

    Hi, Jurgen. How your trip to Lenzkirch?
     
  47. soaringjoy

    soaringjoy Registered User

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    #247 soaringjoy, May 1, 2012
    Last edited: May 1, 2012
    Re: Post your Lenzkirch clocks here

    Yes, I met with the Lenzkircher Uhren-Freunde on two occasions.
    They had already seen the first mark "Patentirt", but the second, round stamp
    is unknown.
    Concerning both markings, there are but assumptions - no verified informations
    I can forward to you.
    The round mark may have been a very late one, appearing just after the Junghans takeover,
    but, there are other assumptions, perhaps even clearer, saying it is an older mark, perhaps
    from the 1880s - and, so I have been informed, this mark had been noticed on an Ogee clock
    made by Lenzkirch.
    Furthermore, the open Brocot escapement does suggest an early dating.
    It is definately known, that this type of movement was not made anymore during or after
    the JH takeover.
     
  48. Pyroman

    Pyroman Registered User

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    Re: Post your Lenzkirch clocks here

    Jurgen, thanks for interesting info!
     
  49. Oled

    Oled Registered User

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    Re: Post your Lenzkirch clocks here

    Greetings, Pyroman and Colleagues.

    The round trademark is indeed a bit strange as it looks like if a
    letter stamp set was used instead of normally solid cut stamp to press the mark. Probably you've noticed that the letters are "dancing". The second strange thing is that there is no "series" numbers present above the s/n as could usually be found on most of Lenzkirch movements.


    If we are not talking about a fake of any kind, then I think it's a great find and a very nice example of unknown Lenzkirch trademark being used somewhat around c.1855-1860. Maybe it was a quick solution to have trademarks on some movements being sent to export (with local customs having strict regulations to have trademarks) or so.

    I've attached photos of two unsigned Lenzkirch movements from my galery for your reference. The first one is a bit earlier, with s/n 17279. Although it is hevily wounded, you can find a "series" number 26 above the s/n as usual. It's unmarked.

    Ч4.jpg

    And the second one with s/n 45021. It's also unmarked and have a "series" number 26 above the s/n. It also has the specific triple punch marks in the corners of the movement that were probably used to allign the drilling stencil on the movement plate during pivot holes drilling process. Absolutelly the same triple punchmarks could be found on the movement with round logo.

    зимняя прогулк&#10.jpg зимняя прогулк&#10.jpg

    So I'm quite confident that it's a real Lenzy, very early one.

    BR,
    Oleg
     
  50. Pyroman

    Pyroman Registered User

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    Re: Post your Lenzkirch clocks here

    Thank you very much, Oled.
     

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