Here's my paltry addition to this thread. A Model #364 14 day spring driven. I shouldn't be but am surprised as to how well it keeps time. D
Hi DB, Your Mini Lenzkirch is awesome! However, it is not a model 364. You have the mini which is a model 363. No big deal but thought you would like to know. The model 364 holds a larger movement. I have a model 363 and a model 364 and love them both. What is the serial number on your movement if I may ask? Steve
Steve, thanks for clarifying that for me. I don't know much about Lenzkirchs other than I really like them especially the minis. The movement is marked Lenzkirch AUG. serial number 303741. D
Nice clocks, DB 'n GNU2: Very nice. I've seen that mini a few times, but seldom complete as yours. CONGRATS!
I attended an Estate sale this weekend, and almost fell over this Lenzkirch was hanging on the wall. Long story story short, brought the clock home. Very interesting motif to say the least... would look great in a lodge setting. Wondering if anyone has seen the "model" before? On the botton there is a carved ribbon, below the oak leaf wreath... In the Ribbon is carved "WAiDMANN'S Heil" I believe this clock was a presentation piece, either for a retirement or a Good Hunt The clock is very large almost 50" Justin
Many points on/for this one Justin. Hardly just another boring Ansonia or Seth Thomas. That "Waidmanns Heil" -- also commonly "Weidmanns Heil" or "Weidmannsheil" -- is a traditional hunters' greeting. Something like "good hunting." A Weidmann is a hunter.
What an awesome clock Justin! This is not one that you will find in the Lenzkirch catalogs! Very few, if any, Lenzkirch collections will have one like yours. Great find! Steve
Seeing Justin's Jagd-Uhr or so-called "hunting clock" reminded me of another that was featured in the November 2005 "American Notebook" column in CLOCKS magazine. The clock was originally discussed and illustrated in the 1 July 1900 issue of the Deutsche Uhrmacher-Zeitung (below). Interestingly, the clock was shown as a good example of how one might fit the traditional Jagd-Uhr ("antlers on a clockcase are already an old decorative device") with the neudeutschen or Jugend styles. In matters of taste it was a teeter-tottery time. The fellow who designed it ("for a hunting friend") had the woodwork done by a regulator-clockcase making firm. The sun at the top, the decoration above the dial proper, as well as the scene below, were done by a "famous leather-working artist in Weimar." Zep
Zep- Very interesting clock with the leather above and below. Thanks for sharing that early image. It is an very unique style, it has grown on me over the past 48 hours since I have owned the clock. As far as the wife... I think this is one the will have to stay in the clock room. Justin
Hi, Justin. Wow, that is definitely a very interesting clock, indeed!! Congrats on a great find! John
Here is my newest acquisition, it has parts and pieces missing from the case, top and bottom finials. If anyone knows what they should look like, I would appreciate it. S/N 822492 which should date it at appx 1890 I think. Any information would be helpful. Thanks
We are all familiar with all the wall clocks Lenzkirch made but I have a little shelf clock with a boy on a swing for the pendulum. It stands about 16 inches tall and is about 8 inches wide and the movement has the number 663722 on it. I wonder if they had a separate numbering system for shelf and wall clocks? Who knows how many types of clocks they made?
Ansoniaman, I'm glad that this thread has appeared out of the blue from the past. It is very interesting, and I must confess to not having ever seen the "lenzkirch" mark on any clocks I have handled. I must say I find the examples shown very pleasing. I have just two questions, which are in a sense, one. I have noticed that the movements are held by pins and not the "Becker nut and bolt," which to me is a sign of quality, the pins that is! Are they all pinned? My real question is to do with the clock posted by Vadim. (It would seem that he was popped in, as his title is different). I noticed that his movement is "nut and bolt" and I am wondering if the method was used for "balance" controlled movements. I looked for some response to Vadim's question, but couldn't seem to find any. I googled lenzkirch rathaus, a nice town! Laprade
My experience - limited as it is - of the Beckers and Lenzies I've had here, I do regard Lenzkirch more highly in general, based on performance, quality appearance, etc. I may someday have a Lenzie if th' right one comes along. Alas, Lenzie never made a truly miniature, one weight.
I have been given a Lenzkirch clock, and I wonder if anyone can tell me anything about it. Serial number 437443 height about 33" case appears to be solid oak, and I have been told, entirely hand carved. Were there many clocks of this model made in the Lenzkirch factory? From my small knowledge gained from googling, I think that most clocks were softwood with veneer - is that correct? In which case is an oak case unusual. There is a small chip to the enamel face - does anyone know where I can obtain a tiny quantity of suitable resin so that it can be invisibly repaired? After some fiddling with the pendulum adjustment it now seems to be keeping time to within a few seconds a week. I am very impressed by this - just how good can I expect to get? What is the best treatment for the carved case. My house is very dry, especially in the winter, and I don't want the wood to shrink or crack. I attach photos. Thanks Mike (Ireland)
Hi messier15. You have a very nice Lenzkirch clock there. An answer to your question is that oak cases were common for Lenzkirch clocks. They offered several different woods for cases and oak was one of them. I own 5 or 6 oak cased Lenzkirch clocks. -> posts merged by system <- Hi dutch. No, Lenzkirch did not have a different numbering system for shelf clocks. From my research, Lenzkirch had a consecutive numbering system with the exception of 100,000 clocks that were numbered from a separate numbering series.
Looks to me like ca 1910 perhaps. Small chip: MUCH has been written here on chip repair. Perhaps search the forum or start your own topic under "clock and case repair" forum. A few secs. a week? That's awsum! Don't touch a thing. Few can do that with a sprang. That wood survived in tact over a hundred years as you found it. Just clean it and apply any kind of furniture oil or polish of your preference. I prefer orange oil - just my pref. VERY elegant. Congrats! Here: I ferreted one from the resto forum for ya: CHIP REPAIR
A dry interior in winter is not good for the case. It would be good if you can use a humidifier to keep the humidity at 40 to 45%--good for people, too.
I'd been reading about the quality of Lenzkirch clocks and looking on Ebay regarding what's available and at what price, when I walked into an antique shop in a nearby town and saw this little fella on the wall. Looked quality in it's black laquer miniature case, gilt bronze mounts and grid-iron pendulum with ornate gilt bronze bob. Owner thought it was a Junghans until we took out the movement and saw the Lenzkirch trademark. S/n is 385564 and there is also a no.26 on the movement. Obviously it's a springer, but I really liked it and as the shop had a half price sale on all its clocks I haggled it down a bit more from an original GB£650 to £300. Overall height is 34"/87cm. Any further info/comments on this little clock would be most welcome. Looking at previous threads on the message board and internet sites, I think it dates from around 1867-1877 depending on whose stats you go on.
Jueles, Very nice find and at a good price. Congratulations! Your ebonized, spring wound Vienna style regulator by Lenzkirch is very similar to mine. My experience has been put it on the wall and wind it every 2 weeks. (It is an 8 day but will easily tick for 2 weeks.) It is a very accurate timekeeper and has not caused any problems. It is a well made clock that you will enjoy. Regards.
Jeules beings up an interesting point. Indeed it's one (quite independently of Jeules please note!) that has become a Stolperstein, a stumbling block for those interested in Lenzkirch research. Directly stated, if cheerfully so on a sunny Sunday morning, there are many references which continue to ignore Lenzkirch research from the past decade or so. This includes, ironically, research published by the Lenzkircher-Uhren-Freunde since the publication of their volume. Not to mention what's appeared in the NAWCC Bulletin and CLOCKS. The foremost example is that there is a central, dated, dating point for Lenzkirch clocks, that came from Lenzkirch and came in their own words. If it were ignored or suspect, there's so to speak a backup from the German patent office. The first clipping (below) is from the 3 July 1875 Leipziger Illustrierte Zeitung. It appeared on page 22, "unten rechts" right below an ad for "Buchers-Feuer-Lösch-Dosen" (fire extinguishers of some sort). A kind university librarian traced it for me. Kochmann's claim in one place that it was in an 1875 Deutsche Uhrmacher-Zeitung couldn't be true, as the DUZ wasn't published until 1877. Yet what we have as a result is a two-way dating mark. Any Lenzkirch movement with the "new" trademark was from 1875 or later. And the SN would be 227,000 and above. The second clipping (below) is from the August 1895 (Vol 2 Number 8) Waarenzeichenblatt, the official journal of record dealing with trademarks. Back when "Waren" was still spelled with two a's. Following an 1894 law, all trademarks would need to be (for the first time) centrally registered. As a result, TMs registered earlier needed to be reregistered. And what 7996 shows is that this Lenzkirch trademark, originally registered elsewhere on 26 May 1875, was enrolled according to the 1894 law on 4 July 1895 following their application of 16 March 1895. More specific points are available in LUF publications. Just for instance, there's a clock with an inscription dated 9 February 1877 and a SN of 343 602. The stumbling block? At some point, rerehearsing the above becomes a chore that all but the most toad-brained-stubborn give up on in horo-exasperation. Unlike with best regards Kermit
Thanks! As you say very similar to yours, and in the very short time I've had it, I have to agree with all you have said. I cleaned the case and glass, left the gilt ornamentation alone, put the movement back in the case, levelled it, put it in beat, and away it went. I'm very pleased with it: a well proportioned, elegant little clock.
In reviewing George A. Everitt's book on Lenzkirch Clocks, your clock appears to be one of the Nr. 700-800 series of miniature spring regulators. I did not see your clock in his book, though one could venture that there are enough similarities to class it as one of those numbered models. Everitt's book has a reprinted Lenzkirch supplement dated 1892 that shows case models similar to your clock. Regardless, very nice clock. D
Thanks for your comments and information, I must obtain a copy of the book. I have absolutely no doubt that case and movement started life together (eg the arc where the pendulum has rubbed the back board, no sign of a different gong mount, no extra holes, and just the whole 'fit' looks right). Would it be right to assume that, although there were stock examples shown in catalogues, 'variations on a theme' could be made to order?
Here is a more recent Lenzkirch, 1 Million 910918. I have had it awhile but it hasn't been posted before. I do notice that the gong has a bit of rust and I'll have to take care of that. Best, Richard T.
Nice little round top cabinet clock, Richard. That rust should be easily removed. I would bet it has a nice sound to it.
Thanks Steven. It does have a good sound. Below is another Lenz....it isn't mine but will post it anyway. I had forgotten that this one has a date plaque on it. Looks like 10 October, 1886__1896. Best, Richard T.
Richard -- Why isn't it yours ? This model 169 came in several variations and earned two full color pages 32f) in the Lenzkirch group's (2001) 150 Jahre Lenzkircher Uhren volume. And several handsome illustrations in Everett's (2006) Lenzkirch Clocks, including an 1892 catalogue reference. Zep
Hi, all. I'm wondering if anyone has any info on a possible model name for this Lenzkirch, or can give an approximate date of its manufacture based on the serial number? Also, what does the "AOG" (?) stand for, with the "U" underneath? (Not sure that the center character in "AOG" is an "O"...it almost looks like it's meant to be a pinecone from the branch above it??) Also, does anyone know what the "AGUL" stands for? I'm assuming the "1 million" means they had already sold one million clocks by the time of manufacture.... It's a good-running 14-day box clock and has a nice resonant tone to the strike. Thanks very much in advance!
Hmm, right after I posted my message above, I found a thread referring to the following website which has a table showing Lenzkirch serial numbers by dates (click on "Dating Lenzkirch Clocks" in the left column): http://www.antique-clock.com/ However, I noticed he states that the "1 million" was added to the back plate starting around 1894 (presumably once the serial numbers passed the 1,000,000 number), even though my clock's serial number 915311 puts it at around 1891-92, and mine has the "1 million" mark. Not quite sure what to make of this, but at least it gives me a ball park estimate. Will be happy to hear any additional info that others might have about this clock. Thanks again!!
Hi John, Very nice late Lenzie you have. I would like to make some input on them: 1) "1 million" means they had already marked one million clocks by that time and started to count again, so your clocks has a real number of 1,915,311. It takes them to 1919-1920. This looks absolutely right assuming strict Art Deco case style. 2) AGUL stands for "Aktien Gesellschaft fuer Uhrenfabrikation in Lenzkirch". Same as A.G.U. Lenzkirch logo. They started to mark their movements and cases with AGUL from ~1919. 3) Geschuetzt on the pendulum hanger is known as being related to patent pending request or something like this. Actually it means "rights reserved". Regards, Oleg
Hi, Oleg. Thanks very much for your very helpful information! I appreciate it! Yeah, based on the clock's style it makes more sense that it would be from 1919-20 rather than 1891-92. I'm glad you mentioned the "Geschuetzt" because I'd forgot to ask about that. I'd also looked it up on an online translating site and it translated it as "protected" so I'd assumed it was meant to be something along the lines of "patented," too. Thanks again!! John
Nice clocks appears faster then money. I still thinking about "to buy or not to buy" regarding this beauty. According to Lenzkirch SN chart these clocks with No 183370 appears to be made around 1859. Strange, but they are not looking that old. By the way, I guess this model was very popular, since these are 3rd clocks of exact that type I've seen at our regional auctions for last year. Does it appear in early Lenz catalogue?
Oled, I don't recall ever seeing a Vienna with a visible escapement. Yeah, more nice clocks than money over here too
Greetings, Harold! Hope you're joking There are a lot (well, if this word is applicable..) of such spring-driven Lenz'es on the market. Moreover, I've seen weight driven ones, also by Lenz. About these ones, they appear to be very early example and that makes me nervous.
"According to Lenzkirch SN chart these clocks with No 183370 appears to be made around 1859. Strange, but they are not looking that old." Year after year, time after time -- and despite its being pointed out almost everytime it appears on this Message Board/Clocks -- the same discredited charts keep showing up. And keep causing confusion (as Oleg indicates above). For example, in 2007: ------- x -------- Just over a year ago (on July 25, 2006) there was a longish posting here that began this way: >>It's more than unfortunate, I feel, that we keep going over some of the same information in this matter of Lenzkirch dating, serial numbers and trademarks. Does anyone actually bother to read the earlier threads?"<< The poster then reviewed at some length some of the information in these threads and elsewhere, including why that BHI-listing (,,,) borrowed from Kochmann should be flushed. And that so-called "other" serial number chart in which 1 million was simply divided by 43. And after much of that in some detail he ended with this: >>My own conclusion to "all of the above", with all good humor, but with no desire to hold a horo-missionary position let alone the nth time around, is that this is essentially a waste of time.<< There is I'm afraid little to add this time around, except the good humor has (from this present posting, evidently) pretty much disappeared. The BHI site is still there, still highly recommending Kochmann's 1 million mark dating of 1900 (it's actually 1894 as has been known for years). That "other" listing with its spuriously accurate result (from 1 million divided by 43!) is still on websites too. There's more new information, but also ignored here. Everett's volume on Lenzkich, for example, would date Rich's clock to around 1907. And there's a long article on Lenzkirch research in the February 2007 Bulletin. But it's still "more than unfortunate" and a waste of time. number listing where 1,000,000 was simply, not to say simplistically, divided by 43. ------ x ---------
Hi Zep, No problem, we will fix that I'll put correct link in my bookmarks This will not happen twice, really )))))) Soooo, the clocks are from c. 1870...
Hi, Doug. Although I see you are replying to Oleg's post, I can't help but feel some affinity for him as I could have just as easily stumbled upon that chart as much as the one I referenced in my post (re: the clock discussed just above Oleg's). Are you and/or the other 2007-poster you quoted saying that we should read each and every Lenzkirch-related post prior to asking a new question about the dating of a Lenzkirch clock? I just ran a search and there are 213 Lenzkirch-related threads (not to mention how many individual posts). It would take forever to read through all of those. And while I can certainly understand that long-time members might feel a sense of tedium at repeatedly responding with the same answers every so often, is it really feasible to expect each new inquirer to delve through hundreds and hundreds of posts before asking a question? Forgive me if I've misunderstood the point. Honestly, I found the 2007 post you quoted somewhat confusing and am thus not sure if I'm getting the jist of what's being said here. I'm just asking because I'm concerned that I could also be guilty of asking a question that may have already been answered previously, and wish to know the overall message board's opinion of such repeats. Is there perhaps another way that such repeat-questions could be responded to? Perhaps a repository of "somewhat-frequently-asked-questions" to which a link in a quick reply could point an inquirer to an already-posted answer to the question, or to a reference charts of some type, without causing the inquirer to feel as if they had offended the board by asking the wrong question or quoting an incorrect source? Just a thought. Thanks, John
Good point, John. Perhaps we could make a sticky with the dating chart, along with John Hubby's latest Becker information. It would save Zep tearing his hair out
Hi Harold, I have seen very few, although there must have been quite a few made Below are photos of Lenzkirch Spring Regulator No. 48, Circa 1875, Open Escapement, 15 Day movement. It's one of my favorite clocks. Best, Richard T.
The basic problems with both the Kochmann dating matter and the 1,000,000:43 etc. "charts" have been repeatedly and specifically pointed out -- with examples -- in English-language publications such as CLOCKS magazine (going back almost a decade now) and the NAWCC Bulletin. As well as, that is, in several articles in the Vereinszeitschrift, the journal of the Lenzkircher-Uhren-Freunde e.V., Der Lenzkircher Uhrenfreund. Not only here on the NAWCC's Message Board. So yes, I don't think it's really too much to expect that our regulars (at least) on the NAWCC supported MB/Clocks, after five years at that, would have taken notice of these fundamental problems, or at least that they exist, when it comes to Lenzies. Have even hinted at that. Winsomely. Fir cones in a trademark called pine cones are not fundamental. Harold -- the 1883 Lenzie catalogue reprinted e.g. in the German Clock Museum's (1985) Großuhren 1880 shows -- and lists which models are available with and prices for -- both weight-driven and spring-driven Regulateure "mit sichtbarem Gang," a visible escapement. Regards, Zep
As I've said, they are not some rare find in Russia, below are another nice examples. Please also note first ones has a AGU Lenz logo on the dial! I never heard that Lenz marked their dials. Oleg
Oled and Richard, If it is possible, could you post pictures of the movements? I am still collecting data with pictures of Lenzkirch clocks. I keep a spreadsheet recording information such as type of movement, markings on the back including the type of trademark or no trademark at all and the corresponding serial number. I am very interested in these open escapements movements so any pictures of the back plate and other pictures of the movement would be greately appreciated. Thanks Guys!
