Post your Lenzkirch clocks here.

Discussion in 'General Clock Discussions' started by Mike306p/Ansoniaman, Jul 6, 2006.

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  1. John Hubby

    John Hubby Principal Administrator
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    Recording the movement types (and other features) along with serial numbers does help one to decipher what was going on when the clocks were made. One thing I've fairly well concluded in my Gustav Becker work is that they "batched" their production of various types of clocks. While they "did" number all their clocks sequentially as best I can determine, it is also very evident they assigned a block of numbers to a particular type of clock as they were making the movements.

    It would take a lot more data than I have collected to date to be "absolutely" certain, but there are any number of instances where I have recorded numbers within a discrete block of say, 1000, that were all the same movement type with few or no variations. Some of these "blocks" are quite small, for example the GB skeleton model 400-Day clocks. From the data to hand, there were four distinct number series made, with the smallest batch being about 150 clocks and the largest about 650, with total production about 1500 being estimated from the four runs over a 3-year period.

    From a dating viewpoint, one of the most useful tools has been the German patent lists that have now been compiled that Duck mentions above. One can determine what the patent covered, then look for that feature on the clocks and record whether it is present or not (Y or N). From my experience you will find that "Voilá!!" moment when all of the clocks prior to a given serial number don't have that feature, and then most or all of them after that serial number do have it. That sets an "anchor point" for dating the clocks that is more accurate than must about any other means. That was the point I was making with the spreadsheet snapshot I posted earlier. In that case there was an absolutely clear transition point.

    John Hubby
     
  2. LenzkirchFan

    LenzkirchFan Registered User
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    Very good points John. Thanks so much for the coaching. Steve
     
  3. Mike306p/Ansoniaman

    Mike306p/Ansoniaman Registered User

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    Here are the photo's of Dana's clock, serial number 13542, not marked Lenzkirch, nor anything else. She asks you, is it possibly a Lenzkirch? Serial number looks low to me.

    63.jpg 64.jpg
    65.jpg
    Any thoughts? Mike
     
  4. zepernick

    zepernick Deceased

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    Would ask all who've been following this thread to PLEASE see Steve's (aka LenzkirchFan) MB/Clocks posting about gathering dating information. Regards,
    Duck
     
  5. LenzkirchFan

    LenzkirchFan Registered User
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    Here is a Lenzkirch Model 80.

    Steve

    38.jpg
     
  6. inbeat

    inbeat Registered User
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    Steve,

    Great picture of you and the nicly made grandfather case.
     
  7. LenzkirchFan

    LenzkirchFan Registered User
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    Here are some pictures of the grandfather clock case that I built from a picture of a Lenzkirch model 544. It has a Hawina movement made by Hans Winterhalter in it.

    Steve

    39.jpg
     
  8. LenzkirchFan

    LenzkirchFan Registered User
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    Here are some closer pictures of the case.

    40.jpg

    41.jpg

    42.jpg
     
  9. RJSoftware

    RJSoftware Registered User

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    That had to have been a fun project Lenz. Did you have any instructions or some print for measure? Nice job!

    Curious now about your woodworking tools. Looks like allot of router work. Wondering what kind of router table you have. Any chance of getting pics of your wood working shop tools?

    This would make an interesting thread. Good for newbies like myself to get step by step understanding.

    RJ
     
  10. LenzkirchFan

    LenzkirchFan Registered User
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    Thanks RJ. I actually used stock moldings except for a couple small ones that I used at the top. Even the fluted columns are purchased at the lumber yard.

    Many of us have movements that need a case and I try to build something as close to an original as possible. That would be a good thread but would it be frowned upon because it would be more woodworking than clocks? Maybe we can do something off line if that is not approved.

    All I had on this particular one was a picture of a Lenzkirch model 544 that was on Ebay at one time. I scaled the picture and used proportions. For example, if the original door was 2 times wider than the width of the dial I made sure mine was the same. The dial was the only good reference that I had to work from but it worked well.

    I am currently building two more for wedding presents for our kids. I will put a Lenzkirch grandfather movement in one and another Hawina in the other one.

    I am taking step-by-step pictures of the building process.

    Steve
     
  11. harold bain

    harold bain Registered User
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    Steve, the woodwork of a clock case is just as much clock related as the movement, so I don't think the moderators would have any problems with a woodwork 101 thread or something instructional as it relates to clock cases.
    Very nice work. You should make up a plaque with your name and date of construction.
    Harold
     
  12. LenzkirchFan

    LenzkirchFan Registered User
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    Here is my Lenzkirch model 534. Steve

    43.jpg
     
  13. Scottie-TX

    Scottie-TX Registered User
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    Nice. VERY nice. I'm envious. I have not one with a name - let alone a model no. Thanks for sharing.
     
  14. Richard T.

    Richard T. Deceased
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    #64 Richard T., Aug 28, 2006
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2013
    Greetings all,

    I have a Lenzkirch movement including mounting bracket/gong and pendulum. It's obvious that it came from a wall clock. No case. Spring driven. Pendulum has the indicator that moves when you adjust the rate of the clock; porcelain insert with the Lenzkirch trademark at "6 O'clock".

    Serial Number is 812924, There is a "26" in the center of the rear plate, also the Lenzkirch trademark. external count wheel.
     

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  15. LenzkirchFan

    LenzkirchFan Registered User
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    Super Richard! I think, in this case, the pendulum might be worth as much as the movement.

    Steve
     
  16. Richard T.

    Richard T. Deceased
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    #66 Richard T., Aug 28, 2006
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2013
    Here are better pictures of the Lenzkirch pendulum mentioned above. I would like to know if anyone else has a Lenzkirch clock with this type pendulum and what type case it has.











    .
     

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  17. LenzkirchFan

    LenzkirchFan Registered User
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    Thanks for the better pictures Richard. I really like the Lenzkirch trademark on the bob! I can go through my many pictures to see if I can find another clock with that type pendulum. It will take me a while to do that. I do know that there are not that many out there. This is not a common pendulum bob.

    Steve
     
  18. Joe Jones

    Joe Jones Registered User
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    Mike,
    Regarding your post of July 30, Dana's clock, I have the exact movement, serial number in the 106,500 range (circa 1867?). I believe it to be a Lenzkirch as it is cased in what is posted in this thread as a Model 309, albeit mising the top three-leaf ornament and the bottom finial. The pendulum in the 309 is different, and the clock appears to be spring driven. Looking at the two in the July 17 posting makes me think that the 309 and my clock are two sizes of the same design.

    Now, for what may well be a little, very little, light on dating Lenzkirchs. My clock has a repair lable posted on the bottom of the inside. It is mostly illegible, but the words "...maker...Jewelers" and "...tuplar St. Phila" are clear. The outside back of the case is covered in what appears to be its original black paper, and there is a repair label on the back that reads "Daniel W. Bates, Ridge and Wallace Sts., Philadelphia" and is dated "1 March 1880". This is pasted over an earlier label. I would take that as an indication that serial number 106,500 being listed as 1867 may be accurate, at least we know that it is two servicings before 1880.

    Joe
     
  19. LenzkirchFan

    LenzkirchFan Registered User
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    Hi Joe,

    I would love to see some pictures of your clock, including the movement, bracket and the paper back. You are correct, some of the early Lenzkirch clocks did have paper glued to the back. How does your pendulum differ?

    I took most of the paper off of the first case that I owned that had the paper on the back. There was nothing under it and I later realized, after acquiring another early Lenzkirch with paper on the back, that it was part of the original clock. How dumb of me!

    Thanks! Steve
     
  20. LenzkirchFan

    LenzkirchFan Registered User
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    Here is my first Lenzkirch clock. I bought it from my German landlord in 1973 while I was in Germany in the Army.

    The top is not original and I will do a better job making another one soon.

    This is a model 114

    49.jpg
     
  21. zepernick

    zepernick Deceased

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    Richard --

    The Lenzkirch pendulum you show was described in a 15 September 1890 article, "Regulirungs-Mechanismus für Pendel" in the _Allgemeines Journal der Uhrmacherkunst_ (pages 267f.).

    I'll send you the pages (with the nifty white-lines on black background illustration) to your email address, and then you can post them here as well, should you wish. Please though also post them along with your photos of the pendulum on the "Help us date Lenzkirch..." thread so that dating information is, hm, centered there.

    As one would expect of any AJU article, the pendulum device is discussed at length. As far as dating goes, it was recent enough to be described still as "a new pendulum."

    Regards,
    Duck
     
  22. Richard T.

    Richard T. Deceased
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    Greetings all,

    I have posted the drawing/photo supplied by "duck" in my second posting above on this topic. Again, Thanks to "duck" for his research efforts.

    Regards,

    Richard T.
     
  23. LenzkirchFan

    LenzkirchFan Registered User
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    Here is a Lenzkirch model 543. I need to take a better picture of it! Steve

    50.jpg
     
  24. new2clocks

    new2clocks Registered User
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    My first Lenzkirch with movement. Any educated guesses on the date of this Lenzkirch?

    Regards.

    45.jpg

    46.jpg
     
  25. LenzkirchFan

    LenzkirchFan Registered User
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    Hello new2clocks,

    There are more than one serial number tables dating Lenzkirch clocks in existence. The latest one being published by George Everett in his new book titled "Lenzkirch Clocks the Unsigned Story". George has attempted to date the serial number list by factoring in the number of employees that the factory had at different periods of time.

    In my opinion, it does the best job of dating Lenzkirch clocks to date. By looking at his table, your Lenzkirch clock with serial number 340374 would date it at 1876.

    Steve
     
  26. new2clocks

    new2clocks Registered User
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    Thank you, Steve.

    Regards.
     
  27. Scottie-TX

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    GNU2; By style, the period looks 1890/1900.
     
  28. Kevin W.

    Kevin W. Registered User
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    All very nice clocks.If i ever come across one at a decent price, well something in my budget.I will buy it.I love the sleek lines of these clocks and a simplicity about them.
     
  29. Richard T.

    Richard T. Deceased
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    Greetings all,

    jmclaugh(Jonathan) requested that I post these pictures again. They were previously in some of my replies above which are not available at my previous flicker account.

    I will try and post the others that are missing from this thread as well.

    Regards,

    Richard t.
     
  30. Richard T.

    Richard T. Deceased
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    Greetings all,

    I didn't realize that I had posted the above reply. I had to leave and thought I had cancelled it.

    Anyway,

    Two Lenzkirch Clocks below:
     

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  31. Richard T.

    Richard T. Deceased
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    Greetings all,

    I have a Lenzkirch movement including mounting bracket/gong and pendulum. It's obvious that it came from a wall clock. No case. Spring driven. Pendulum has the indicator that moves when you adjust the rate of the clock; porcelain insert with the Lenzkirch trademark at "6 O'clock".

    Serial Number is 812924, There is a "26" in the center of the rear plate, also the Lenzkirch trademark. external count wheel.

    (I am really having problems today, probably of my own doing. ) I'll try again with the pictures.

    Richard T.


     
  32. Richard T.

    Richard T. Deceased
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    Photos to go with above post:


     

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  33. Richard T.

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    Finally, patent drawings for pendulum, thanks to Douglas Stevenson.
     

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  34. LenzkirchFan

    LenzkirchFan Registered User
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    Here is an early Lenzkirch Model 108 that I just got.

    Steve

    http://www.nawcc-mb.com/pictures//file-Early Lenzkirch Mod 108.jpg
     
  35. inbeat

    inbeat Registered User
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    Steve,
    Nice simple lines with a little bit of flash....
    I like it.

    JJ
     
  36. Martyme

    Martyme Registered User

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    Hello,

    Looking for information on this 1 wt, Lenzkirch movement, the serial number is 526479, dismantled the movement for cleaning and found that every movement part has a # 5 stamped on it. Does not have a second hand.

    Wondering what model this may have been used on.
    What is the dial size, pendulum length etc, weight amount.

    Just for fun, I weighed the movement and came out to be 1 # 15 oz.
    Surprised me for such a tiny movement.

    Thanks in advance for any information.

    Hope you, all had a nice three day labor day weekend.

    Martyme (Rich)
     
  37. Scottie-TX

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    Not much to go on, MT. Do I understand you have only a movement?
    Your movement will (should be) reliable on three pounds.
    Typical of these movements was a 7 and 1/4" dial measured at bezel OD.
    Typical also of these was either a 25" or 27" pendulum measured from the suspension post to reg. nut. A brief run period will expose which it is.

     
  38. zepernick

    zepernick Deceased

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    Rich -- that movement number is actually 1526479 (the "million" + the number).
     
  39. Martyme

    Martyme Registered User

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    Hello,

    Wish to Thank Scottie and Zepernick for their kind and informative responses.

    I've rechecked the end shake and pallet wear and there is very little of each.

    Wanting to buff the plates to clean it up, but don't know if it would be a good idea or not.

    Any suggestions ?

    Regards,

    Rich (Martyme)
     
  40. Scottie-TX

    Scottie-TX Registered User
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    I would regard polished plates only as a preference - how you like them. I WOULD be interested from anyone who knows whether they were highly polished from the factory. I suspect they were.
    I polish mine to a mirror brilliance with SIMICHROME metal polish.
    Of course, that is the FIRST process before any cleaning etc. because after plates are polished, they MUST be thoroughly cleaned, bushings pegged and polished, etc. to remove all traces of the polish.
     
  41. Larry

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    Here are three of my Lenzkirchs.

    Larry
     

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  42. Larry

    Larry Registered User

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    The antlers for the hunter are replacements; the top of the open well is missing and the lower finials for the one weight are in the case (the clock is over the couch and the gkids kept knocking them off).

    Larry
     
  43. Ralph

    Ralph Registered User
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    Here's one of my catches from the Ft Mitchell regional. This one came from the parking lot market.

    If it had the lower finial , it would be about 23" tall. The dial is about 3 3/8" ad the bezel is about 4".

    I haven't been able to identify the model.

    Ralph
     

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  44. Kevin W.

    Kevin W. Registered User
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    Nice clocks everyone.I had no idea of the many different case styles.
    Thanks for sharing. :thumb:
     
  45. SrWilson

    SrWilson Registered User

    I recently aqquired a small Lenzkirch westminster bracket clock chimes on 5 gongs.
    I'm in middle of restoring it at the moment so I will post pictures once ive finished.
     
  46. Vadim

    Vadim Registered User

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    appropriate balance?

    See please, saw who such watch with balance? It is correct this?
     

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  47. new2clocks

    new2clocks Registered User
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    Hello all,

    I just purchased my second Lenzkirch - an eight day, weigt driven, time only Vienna style regulator. I will post more photos after it is hung on the wall.

    In the interim, I have posted pictures of the dial and movement.

    The serial number is 413371. What would the date of manufacture be?

    Thanks and regards.
     

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  48. Scottie-TX

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    Lookin' good NOO2:
    1869 perhaps? Oughta be a keeper!
    CONGRATS!
     
  49. zepernick

    zepernick Deceased

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    #99 zepernick, Oct 11, 2008
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2008
    On dating.

    What is known -- independently of any opinion or estimates of estimates -- is that the so-called "new logo," the fir-branch one as on this movement, was applied to movements of 227,000 and above.

    It needs to be stressed that this is according to an advertisement from Lenzkirch (and Gustav Becker) which appeared in the Leipziger Illustrierte Zeitung of 3 July 1875. Moreover, the older Lenzkirch TM was referred to as the "Bisheriges," that is, the "existing" one, the TM used up to then.

    I'd checked this because Kochmann had stated in one source that the ad was from an 1875 Deutsche Uhrmacher-Zeitung. But the mighty DUZ wasn't published until 1877. So with the help of some of our university librarians, I ran down a copy of the original ad from the LIZ, and reported on it and reproduced it in the March 2004 CLOCKS.

    As a result we have a central dating line, and it comes with the authority of Lenzkirch. If you have a movement with this "new" fir-branch trademark, then it was made sometime after 1875. Or if you like chrono-mnemonic devices (and who doesn't?) think of Custer and take 1876.

    Similarly, if you have a movement with a SN above 227,000, you can safely assume it was made after that date.

    In the Frühjahr/Sommer 2005 issue of Der Lenzkircher Uhrenfreund in an article "Zum Thema Werknummern," actual production data were reported that had been recorded by the son (also named Paul) of Lenzkirch co-founder Paul Tritscheller. This information and the DLU article were reported on in English, lest they be overlooked, in an article "Lenzkirch by the Numbers" that appeared in the February 2007 CLOCKS.

    Among various other types of data, PT had recorded production figures of movements and movements-in-cased clocks at 5 year intervals beginning in 1865. The totals of movements and clocks-with-movements were, for example, 31,117 in 1875, 30,205 in 1880, and 43,450 in 1885.

    Which, taking the difference between 227,000 and this SN, would suggest that this movement was made around 1881.

    Regards,
    Zep
     
  50. new2clocks

    new2clocks Registered User
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    Thanks. Scottie.

    Zep, your scholarly approach to horology amazes me!

    Thank you so much!

    Regards.
     

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