Post your Kroeber Clocks Here

Discussion in 'General Clock Discussions' started by Richard T., Jul 3, 2010.

  1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  1. Steven Thornberry

    Steven Thornberry User Administrator
    NAWCC Member

    Jan 15, 2004
    21,125
    709
    113
    Male
    Ne’er do well
    Here and there
    Country Flag:
    Thanks for the comments, RM. I guess I'll not be sure who made what for whom unless I see the clock in a TCC catalogue. Indeed, Kroeber did sell the clocks of other mfrs. A number of them are in Tran, and I believe some Kroeber labels state he is agent (maybe "sole" agent) for several others. I've seen the Lily somewhere, perhaps on antiqueclockspriceguide.com. Can't remember if it's in Tran, but it wouldn't surprise me.
     
  2. jacks61fd

    jacks61fd Registered User

    Jul 2, 2002
    1,344
    25
    48
    Male
    Retired Police officer
    Ocala Florida
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    There's a "LILY" for sale on that famous online auction site. 3 hours left.
     
  3. doufou_db2aa3

    doufou_db2aa3 Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Nov 12, 2009
    1
    0
    0
    WIN_20150322_180057.JPG Recent purchase, my first Kroeber. What's left of the label leads me to think the model name begins with the letter "A". Can someone identify it, years in production, and what am I missing? (two holes in top of case at front corners). And I know this isn't the place to discuss value, but any idea of whether it is common or not so much so?
     
  4. Steven Thornberry

    Steven Thornberry User Administrator
    NAWCC Member

    Jan 15, 2004
    21,125
    709
    113
    Male
    Ne’er do well
    Here and there
    Country Flag:
    This is Kroeber's Cabinet No. 12. It is shown in Tran Duy Ly's book on Kroeber clocks from the 1888 catalogue. Perhaps offered a few years before and after as well. I can find no reference to an alternative name beginning with "A."

    Yours is missing top corner finials as well as some front "railing."
     
  5. Steven Thornberry

    Steven Thornberry User Administrator
    NAWCC Member

    Jan 15, 2004
    21,125
    709
    113
    Male
    Ne’er do well
    Here and there
    Country Flag:
    #105 Steven Thornberry, Jul 4, 2016
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2019
    This clock, timepiece rather, was sold as a New Haven or Jerome. It is, however, a Kroeber clock called the Supply. Tran Duy Ly's Kroeber book (arlingtonbooks.com) shows a photo of one from Kent Kroeber's collection, a one-day T/S clock, but there is no catalogue illustration.

    Supply.JPG Supply Tran.JPG

    Note the label on Kent Kroeber's clock; it show's Kroeber address as 8 Cortlandt Street in NYC. Kroeber was there from 1874 to 1882, moving then to 14 Cortlandt Street. In fact, he kind of hopped all over the town. I have run across one other example of the Supply, also a one-day T/S, carrying the same label and same address. Alas, mine has no label. It also had no pendulum and no minute hand and a dial that had seen better days and a case that needed some reattaching. But, what the heck, for $13.50, I could have done worse.

    There was a good reason the seller suggested New Haven or Jerome. The movement is a New Haven one-day time only.

    Supply Movement Front.JPG Supply Movement Back.JPG

    It was attached to the backboard through the agency of a mounting board, all of which seems original to the clock.

    Supply Interior 1.JPG Supply Interior 2.JPG

    The movement has the tapered escape wheel bridge that is the later style used by New Haven and thought to have been adopted sometime in the 1870's. Assuming that this timepiece was made during Kroeber's 8 Cortlandt Street years (a guess given that there is no label), the tapered escape wheel bridge would be appropriate for that time-frame. The movement is a 6 o'clock wind, which appears to be a later development in the array of New Haven's time only one-day movements; exactly how much later "later" is, I'm not sure. Another thing struck me about this movement - it has largish iron mounting feet. I might have expected the feet to be brass, as on this New Haven 6 o'clock wind one-day movement from a timepiece called the No. 251 (aka the Dolphin):

    No. 251 Movement Front.JPG No. 251 Movement Back.JPG

    The iron mounting feet remind of the movements with iron mounting brackets mentioned in this thread.
     
  6. sfcpenny

    sfcpenny New Member

    May 1, 2017
    1
    0
    0
    Country Flag:
    Just thought I would share my example of a Kroeber #31 Regulator Wall Clock. This particular one hung on the wall of the train station in Clarksville, OH and was presented to my Great Grandfather when he retired as Station Master. The base has the initials PC&S for Penn Central and Southern Railroad. I believe it's been cleaned at some point by my Grandmother as it was covered in soot from the trains. Still keeps perfect time to this day.

    303595.jpg 303596.jpg 303597.jpg 303598.jpg 303599.jpg 303600.jpg
     
  7. John P

    John P Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Sep 17, 2010
    837
    24
    18
    Male
    Looking after the cats
    North Carolina
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    This is my only F. Kroeber clock we rescued in Wilmington Ohio,
    Its been repainted once with white house paint the then sprayed
    with automobile paint. After getting case cleaned up,
    I went with white epoxy paint and left the dial as it was.
    The pat. date is 0ct.9 1894
    I am missing the lower part of the speed regulator, the shaft and gear.
    PM me if anyone has an extra set.



    303676.jpg 303677.jpg

    303678.jpg 303679.jpg
     

    Attached Files:

  8. Bruce Alexander

    Bruce Alexander Registered User
    Sponsor NAWCC Brass Member

    Feb 22, 2010
    5,956
    349
    83
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Very nice Job John! I recently fabricated a replacement regulator for a Kroeber China No. 14. Although you don't really need one because the Eclipse Pendulum is adjustable, it's a nice feature to have and the clock originally had it.
     
  9. Bruce Alexander

    Bruce Alexander Registered User
    Sponsor NAWCC Brass Member

    Feb 22, 2010
    5,956
    349
    83
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    #109 Bruce Alexander, May 9, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 15, 2017
    Kroeber China Clocks can be very interesting and challenging to work with.

    My wife and I like to collect Porcelain Mantel clocks and have acquired a few Kroeber Chinas.

    The heavy gauge brass wire guided pendulum bobs (called the "Eclipse Movement from circa 1895) are an interesting feature. Kroeber claimed that "In this movement the pendulum remains attached. It can be transported and knocked about without injury, remaining in beat and causing no complaints". I think that is true to an extent but I still would pack around the movement if I were to prepare one of these clock/movements for shipping.

    The Kroeber Porcelain clocks have many different floral patterns and colors which we think are attractive.

    One the "Con" side:

    Generally, we don't care much for the paper dials as they deteriorate, sometimes badly, with age.

    Kroeber's method of mounting the movement and dial to the porcelain case also leave something to be desired. Ansonia Porcelain clocks used a much superior cast metal method. Here was another discussion concerning the subject of Kroeber's methond on the Message Board in 2005 https://mb.nawcc.org/showthread.php?4177-Kroeber-China-Clock-Case-Assembly

    Kroeber used a ring of plywood and wood screw fasteners to attach the movement to the plywood ring. The dial/bezel was then placed over a brass shim/plate which fit over the porcelain case. Again, wood screws were used to attach that assembly to the plywood ring. As you might imagine, the plywood ring deteriorates with time and we've had a number of clocks arrive with one or more failing fasteners. This can lead to a loose movement and shipping damage. We even had one clock arrive with the movement bouncing around in the porcelain case. How the case did not get damaged is a real mystery to us. The movement must have broken free late in the delivery but the hands and dial were somewhat damaged in the process.

    Below are photos of a Kroeber China No. 14 that I partially restored. According to Tran's book, it is a pretty old-timer from circa 1898.

    The movement was in acceptable condition and did not require an overhaul at this time just lubrication.

    However, after trying to glue the various layers of wood back together, I decided that the Plywood Mounting Ring needed to be replaced. I cut out and shaped a slightly wider ring of new ¼" plywood, which I sealed with shellac. I also ordered some slotted brass screws to better match the dial and movement. The screws used to fasten the dial were longer than the steel "as found" screws to more fully engage the plywood mounting ring which I reinforced with small blocks of hard wood where the screws came in.

    I also ended up using some judiciously placed double-sided tape between the plywood ring and the porcelain case to help prevent movement rotation when winding. This also helped reduce the need to "over-tighten" the bezel/movement assembly to the porcelain case.

    In addition, the Regulation Arbor was missing. Evidently, for some reason, this isn't a rare finding on Kroebers. I suppose folks get carried away with them just like the do with other makes and models. Ingraham came up with a good solution when they invented the thumb wheel. They couldn't do much about dirty, oily thumbs against paper dials though. :)

    I don't have a mill but I started the process by turning the replacement gear on my lathe and then manually cutting and filing the teeth. It took a couple of tries before I got an acceptable wheel. The regulation gear mesh doesn't exactly require high precision, but they do have to mesh smoothly or they'll strip quickly. I had some steel rod that was appropriately sized for the arbor. Getting the missing part into place was a real challenge as the driving gear/rod assembly bracket was staked at the point of mesh like many other designs we see. Seth Thomas, for example, often uses that type of set up. It's much easier, and usually quite functional, to just place an adjustable pendulum bob but the clock wasn't manufactured that way and it is a nice feature to have when fine-tuning the clock's rate. My arbor's squared end was a little long but it didn't interfere with the hands so I left it long.

    I also replaced an unoriginal over-sized black steel cover with a more properly sized brass cover.

    I'm happy with the outcome. Hopefully this Kroeber will stay in good shape for a little while longer.

    304249.jpg xyzzytom_342959 304253.jpg xyzzytom_342962 xyzzytom_342965 xyzzytom_342967 304262.jpg 304264.jpg 304256.jpg 304249.jpg 304251.jpg 304253.jpg 304254.jpg 304256.jpg 304259.jpg 304261.jpg 304262.jpg 304263.jpg 304264.jpg
     

    Attached Files:

  10. SteveC1964

    SteveC1964 Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Dec 11, 2009
    28
    0
    1
    Retired
    Houston, Texas
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    I have that Kroeber. I bought mine restored about 25 years ago.
     
  11. heirloomclocks

    heirloomclocks Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Nov 21, 2005
    110
    0
    16
     
  12. skyclock

    skyclock Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Sep 27, 2011
    63
    3
    8
    USN Aircraft Maintenance Officer
    San Diego
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    May be my only F Kroeber. The embossing? is nice on the back plate. Case is some kind of metal.

    549 2.jpg 549.jpg
     
  13. heirloomclocks

    heirloomclocks Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Nov 21, 2005
    110
    0
    16
     
  14. heirloomclocks

    heirloomclocks Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Nov 21, 2005
    110
    0
    16
    Hello,
    I have just read your NAWCC listing for Kroeber clocks you own. I own the California model too. Since I acquired it I have been trying to determine what statue was used on the clock. To date I have been unable to find any reference that identifies if if was a composite of other statues or if the exact statue exists somewhere and was duplicated for the clock. I will check your listing regularly to see if you posted any additional information. Thanks.
    Cordially,
    Carl
     
  15. Joedy860

    Joedy860 Registered User

    Oct 4, 2017
    10
    0
    1
    Male
    Country Flag:
    Kroeber cabinet #58
    I am not sure how much of this clock is original.
    If anyone knows where I can find reproduction finials I would appreciate it.

    20181218_165507.jpg 20181218_165528.jpg 20181218_165553.jpg 20181218_165616.jpg 20181218_170133.jpg 20181218_171334.jpg
     
  16. RobinHood

    RobinHood New Member

    Jul 9, 2019
    3
    0
    1
    Country Flag:
    I was given this Kroeber clock by a lady in her 90s. It belonged to her husband's grandmother. It seems to be in nice condition, except for the missing tip of the decoration on the right front side. I think it's enameled cast iron. It's 13.5" tall, 10" wide at the base, and 4.5" deep. I have a key and what looks like a pendulum of some sort.

    There is no label inside, but the works are engraved "F Kroeber Clock Co, New York USA."

    I have not tried to wind it. I don't know how and didn't want to damage it. It chimed the other day and surprised us.

    Can anyone tell me about this piece? I really know nothing about clocks and I'm curious to learn about this one.

    What model is it? When was it made? How can I wind it?

    Thank you!!

    IMG_2032.JPG IMG_2033.JPG IMG_2034.JPG IMG_2035.JPG
     
  17. Bruce Alexander

    Bruce Alexander Registered User
    Sponsor NAWCC Brass Member

    Feb 22, 2010
    5,956
    349
    83
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    #117 Bruce Alexander, Jul 10, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2019
    Hello "RobinHood", welcome to the NAWCC Message Board. Thanks for sharing your newly acquired heirloom. Sounds like it goes back in the same family quite a ways! The model is Kroeber's "Voltaire" from circa 1895. My reference (Tran Duy Ly) says that it originally came in white, black, pink, blue, red, green and brown. That's quite a selection since many "Black Mantel Clock" models only came in black! Kroeber often did things a little differently to compete with larger companies.

    Your Voltaire is made of enameled iron probably with finished Spelter casting/decorations. Spelter (Zinc Alloy or "Pot Metal") is relatively fragile for a metal and broken parts are seen often. Yours doesn't look too bad, and I wouldn't worry too much about it. Just handle the clock with care.

    In my opinion, before you put an antique mechanical clock back in daily service, it should be examined by someone who knows clocks. The lubricant showing in your second and third photos, for example, looks pretty dirty. It may just be some kind of black grease but who knows? Maybe the 90 year-old lady can give you an idea of when the clock was last serviced.

    Winding: I believe this has an 8-day time and strike movement. The mainsprings on such clocks are pretty strong and care should always be used when re-winding them. They can "bite" you if mishandled. You won't be able to turn the winding key the wrong way. If it doesn't turn to the left, try turning it to the right. If it won't turn either way, it's probably fully wound and the clock should run and "strike" normally.

    As you turn the key, you should hear a "clicking" sound. This is a pawl and ratchet assembly most often called the click and click wheel. Turn the key as far as you can turn your wrist and then relax your wrist before you let go of the key to get a new grip. By relaxing your wrist, you should be able to tell if the click is going to catch and hold the mainspring for you. If it catches, good, let go of the key and get a new grip so you can continue to wind the spring. If it doesn't catch, you've got a problem. Try to slowly let the mainspring unwind by alternating with both hands to unwind the spring one-half turn at a time. If you can't do that, pull your hand away from the key as fast as you can and turn your face away from the clock.

    Assuming all goes well, once you have your clock fully wound up (you can tell by feel when the spring is fully wound), it should run for a full week (if it is an 8-day movement) before you need to rewind it.

    The clock must be put "in beat" to run well. See this link for details: Beat Setting 101

    If the strike is out of sync with the time (clock hands show 6:00 and it only strikes 4 times, for example) let us know and we'll walk you through re-setting the strike.

    You've come to the right place as I think there is a lot of questionable information about the care and feeding of antique clocks to be found on the internet. There are many experienced and dedicated horologists who offer free help and advice to the public on this Message Board.

    Look around, and please don't hesitate to ask questions.

    Regards,

    Bruce
     
  18. claussclocks

    claussclocks Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Mar 14, 2013
    720
    178
    43
    Male
    Texas
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    I recently acquired this enameled iron case Kroeber. I was shocked at the virtually perfect condition of the case. One interesting feature is the detailed scroll work on the plates. Sadly, you never see it unless you open the back and look. According to Tran's book this is a "Louis XIV. It originally was sold with a set of matching design candle holders. I did not get those. Looks very similar to RobinHood's Voltaire.

    Noting what Bruce has said, I have cleaned and serviced this movement before putting it back in service.

    You have a nice clock. Kroeber did not make his own movements. He designed cases and sometimes the movement to go in them but had the movements made by some of the well known New England clock makers.

    Welcome to the NAWCC Message Board. There are many helpful people here and you are off to a nice start as a collector.

    Finished Clock.jpg Movement Rear View 2.jpg Close-up of Scroll work.jpg Front of Movement.jpg
     
  19. Bill Cann

    Bill Cann Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Mar 26, 2019
    21
    0
    1
    This is one that I picked up at an estate sale last fall, but don't know what model it is. It is enameled cast iron and heavy. I was pleased how well it cleaned up considering how grimy the case and movement were. I really like the bob guide rods and surprised that concept wasn't more widespread.

    IMG_1044.JPG IMG_0962.JPG
     
  20. claussclocks

    claussclocks Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Mar 14, 2013
    720
    178
    43
    Male
    Texas
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    That's a real beauty. I like the guide rods as well. Kroeber made some really beautiful clocks
     
  21. Bruce Alexander

    Bruce Alexander Registered User
    Sponsor NAWCC Brass Member

    Feb 22, 2010
    5,956
    349
    83
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    That is a nice looking black mantel Bill.
    I like the "Eclipse" movement too.
    I'm out of town and don't have access to my Tran books right now. I can check when I get back if needed.
    Thanks for sharing with us.

    Bruce
     
  22. Bill Cann

    Bill Cann Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Mar 26, 2019
    21
    0
    1
    Bruce,
    At your convenience, would be nice to add to my records.

    Thanks, Bill
     
  23. Steven Thornberry

    Steven Thornberry User Administrator
    NAWCC Member

    Jan 15, 2004
    21,125
    709
    113
    Male
    Ne’er do well
    Here and there
    Country Flag:
    Bill, your clock is the Richelieu, shown in Tran's Kroeber book from the 1895 catalogue, though it was possibly offered a few years either side of 1895. It was furnished in black, white, pink, blue, red, green, and brown. It apparently came with either the dial that is on yours or with a somewhat fancier dial.
     
    Time After Time likes this.

Share This Page