Post Your Junghans Mystery Swingers here

Robert Gary

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As many of you know, I am researching the Junghans swinger clocks. You can find my original posting here: https://mb.nawcc.org/showthread.php?t=59576&highlight=Send+Junghans+swinger

I have now photographed five absolutely amazing Junghans swinger collections. Here are just two of the many fabulous clocks I have been privileged to be allowed to photograph.

The "Swiss Guard" is from the collection of Robert Selene, and the beautifully ornate "Dolphin" is from the collection of Ernie Lopez. I have not found either of these exact versions in any Junghans catalog as yet, but my research is just beginning. The clock on "Dolphin" is indeed a Junghans; style #4 of five shown in the compilation of Junghans swingers by Victor Tang, any400day.com. The clock on "Swiss Guard" is style #3, also from Victor's compilation CD.

My sincere thanks to all that have allowed me to photograph their clocks, and to Victor for sending me the compilation of Junghans swingers CD.

Please contact me if you own any Junghans swinger, or Junghans swinger knock offs. I would love to include them in my research.

RobertG

Swiss Guard 5-29-2010.jpg Dolphin with clock attached 5-29-2010.jpg Dolphin without clock attached 5-292010.jpg
 
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Steven Thornberry

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At Robert's request, I have added this thread to the sticky at the top of this forum. Let's post our Junghans swingers.
 

Robert Gary

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Thank you, Steven.

RobertG
 

Kobas

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Hello.
I am new here. I do not speak English so I use translatom.
I would like to re-open the topic about Junghans mystery clocks. I read previous forum discussions about these clocks. Junghans produced about 34 types of mystery clocks (documented in catalogs). Maybe we can collect all of them here?
I will start with Elegant C (Column) produced in 1914/1915.
Catalog number 7127.
Column made of pear wood - birnbaum. Manufactured on the German and French market.
I apologize for the poor translation.

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JTD

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Welcome to the board!

Your English is fine, even if you need to use translation.

Your clock is unusual and interesting. I hope others will contribute too.

JTD
 
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JTD

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Ah! I thought I remembered that thread but couldn't find it. I thought I must have remembered wrong. Good that you found it.

JTD
 

Kobas

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Thank you for the nice welcome.
OK - Maybe the board administrator will transfer my entry to the topic from 2010?
 

new2clocks

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JTD, there is not much in that thread. I assume that most swingers are posted in the general "Post your Junghans" thread.

I will add my swinger to this thread and maybe the admins can move to the already established thread.

Regards.
 

new2clocks

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Hello.
I am new here. I do not speak English so I use translatom.
I would like to re-open the topic about Junghans mystery clocks. I read previous forum discussions about these clocks. Junghans produced about 34 types of mystery clocks (documented in catalogs). Maybe we can collect all of them here?
I will start with Elegant C (Column) produced in 1914/1915.
Catalog number 7127.
Column made of pear wood - birnbaum. Manufactured on the German and French market.
I apologize for the poor translation.

View attachment 410450
Kobas,

I have never seen an Elegant C. Very nice:coolsign:

Regards.
 

Kobas

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The elephant was produced from 1910 to 1938. Usually it was 29 cm tall. In 1910, its height was 28.5 cm - instead of an oak base it had a pedestal. It was produced for 29 years and sold in Germany and France. Catalog number 6785, 4/51
 

Kobas

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Elephant, Kangaroo, Elegance, Rococo, Salome and Eccomi are mostly copied by a very, very big country in Asia.
Kangaroo has already appeared on the forum several times. It will not hurt if I give it some more time.
Kangaroo produced only in 1929. Sold in Germany, France and Great Britain.
Catalog number 4/267
Height 31 cm. Wooden base. Surface - imitation patinated bronze.
In the animal gallery - next to elephant, dolphin and lion tamed by man (Proteo).

We recognize the original after fixing the bracket under the clock, the shape of the base, the distinct texture of the skin.
The clock can appear as left or right - depending on the needs of the exposure.

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Kobas

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Another interesting clock is a Prisonere.
It was produced only in 1910, intended for the German market. Height 38 cm
catalog number 917

Sculptor - Ernest - Justin Ferrand (1846-1932)

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Kobas

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A very interesting group (collection) of clocks are figures carved by the German sculptor and painter Franz Iffland (1862-1935)
Junghans borrowed three and a half sculptures from Iffland.
1. Elegance sometimes called Diana
2. Salome, sometimes called Cleopatra
3.Gamin sometimes called Bat Boy.
4. Boxer - has been adapted from the sculpture "Javelin"
Calling Elegance Diana is rather incorrect because Diana is a separate figure (in the picture from the catalog)
Iffland's sculptures are signed (in the picture)
If the clock is not signed, it may be a forgery.
You can find information that the clocks Rokoko (barmanka) and Eccomi (seller of onions) are also sculptures of Ifflanda. However, I have not found confirmation of this info,
Elegance comes in three colors: old patina, old silver and matt gold. Elegance could have two types of clock. - there are at least four types of clock pendulums (So there are six Elegance clock combinations.
I have a very interesting Elegance clock. In the left hand, the index finger is pointing towards the sky. The woman shows the direction towards the sky for the bird she holds in her right hand. In my copies, the woman has a bent index finger and her left hand is bent differently. I have never seen such a second sculpture. Junghans officials said it could be a prototype.
I cordially invite you to the discussion

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Kobas

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Mój język angielski jest chyba mało zrozumiały.
To spróbuję inaczej - po polsku.
Ciekawy zegar - Niedyskrecja - L Indiseret
Do niedawna sądzono, że nie jest to oryginalny zegar Junghans.
W grudniu odnalazłem francuski katalog z tym zegarem

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Steven Thornberry

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Mój język angielski jest chyba mało zrozumiały.
To spróbuję inaczej - po polsku.
Ciekawy zegar - Niedyskrecja - L Indiseret
Do niedawna sądzono, że nie jest to oryginalny zegar Junghans.
W grudniu odnalazłem francuski katalog z tym zegarem
English translation from Google Translate:

"My English is not very understandable.
I will try it differently - in Polish.
Interesting clock - Indiscretion - L Indiseret
Until recently it was thought that this is not the original Junghans clock.
In December I found a French catalog with this clock."
 

Tempore747

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Hi Everyone, what a beautiful and interesting thread. As anyone may be knows i collect Junghans Mystery swinger clocks and i have a lot of them. Some of them are a "mystery" for me because i did not found any documentation about. I was very impressed from the Elegant (Diana) pictures posted by Kobas (Thank you!), i never seen the statue witch ispirate the swinger clock. Know that Iffland made and signed a lot of statue like batboy born as no swinging clock. Its very amazing to match both meanings of the action of each figure to the project of the swinger clock. It keeps an higher concept of art hiding the "mystery"... I saw Kobas you have a lot of pages from catalogue, can i ask you if you can pass to me some staff? In example i see for the first time "L'Indiscret" on an official catalogue (i have it!) like for some of the mystery clock (Diana in more than one version including the beautiful "Arcano" golden painted, Elefante, Cleopatra,Loy Schan and a copy of a Barmaid). If have any documents to pass me i appreciate or alternative indicate where to find, thank you
 

chronologiker

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I would like to point out that several years ago Victor Tang from Singapore released a CD with (all?) Junghans Mysterieusen. However, Tang's homepage has been closed for a long time and in this forum Victor registered for the last time in Dec. 2014.

But maybe someone in this forum knows the Mysterieusen CD by Victor Tang.

Should anyone know how Victor Tang is doing, I would be glad to receive a PM release. Thank you!

Chronologiker
 

Kobas

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Hello.
I am very happy that a soul mate has appeared.
Tempore 747 you have a nice collection. Can you show your clocks. I am very interested in Loy Schan nr 4/140.
As for the Arcano clock it is the name used in the Italian ARTURO catalog - Junghans (Venezia) from 1911. It does not necessarily mean that the clock is covered with gold (14 carats) can be patinated and in Italy it is called Arcano.
In Venice, the Junghans factory - Fabbrica D Orologeria was located
In my opinion, Elegant which has the catalog number 6620 is covered with gold - this shell is called matte gold.

I got a lot of information about the Junghans catalogs at the Junghans museum in Germany in the city of Schramberg

4.JPG 1.JPG 1912 Katalog Junghans Großbritannien S. 37.jpg
 

oyster

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I'm not versed with clocks at all but these time pieces are very nice. I like the elephant ones very much!

Didn't know Junghans delved into this "world"... Were these some sort of limited edition collector's items or so ? Did they cost a lot of money ?
 

Tempore747

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Many Thanks, very very interesting mine seems proteo statue instead of freia subject ... anyway the iconography is clear but if you see detailed link i posted the hero is next to proteo than the other subject. May be the drows can be confused isn't it? I found this evidence looking at the hair direction. I am searching for this catalogue any idea where to find it?
 

new2clocks

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I'm not versed with clocks at all but these time pieces are very nice. I like the elephant ones very much!

Didn't know Junghans delved into this "world"... Were these some sort of limited edition collector's items or so ? Did they cost a lot of money ?
Oyster,

Junghans produced the elephant swinger from at least 1910 until 1938 or so.

Since Junghans was probably the largest producers of clocks during that time period, it makes sense that they had the financial ability to expand their lines into the novelty clock arena.

Regards.
 
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Kobas

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Unfortunately, I do not know this clock.
However, there is a problem with the Freja clock.
Freja is a woman. There's a guy on your clock. You can find opinions that the clock with a man is not a Junghans product. I do not issue such opinions. I have many examples that clocks in different collections differ from their images in catalogs. In the near future I will show examples of these differences.

IMG_2236.PNG
 

Tempore747

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Unfortunately, I do not know this clock.
However, there is a problem with the Freja clock.
Freja is a woman. There's a guy on your clock. You can find opinions that the clock with a man is not a Junghans product. I do not issue such opinions. I have many examples that clocks in different collections differ from their images in catalogs. In the near future I will show examples of these differences.

View attachment 440614
Thank you Kobas, infact the marriage is very interesting... the subject seems proteo on the eagle. I think it show Ganimede on the Eagle, but i have no documentation on it. The clock dial shows "made in italy" so the only one possibility its one from the italian junghans production...(in case it will be very rare example) . as regards the other mystery clock (angel with pentagon star on the head and cornucopia grabbed with the left hand i am in totally black out)

Anyway before go on on those considerations, i really want to thanks all the members of this unique and very useful board. It gives to me the possibility to discover the invaluable value of those beautiful mysterieuse clocks. Very very thanks to all members.
 

Kobas

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Amour catalog number 916. Height 29 cm. It belongs to the smallest (lowest) clocks. The only dolphin is 26 cm. Produced in 1910 on the French market.

Here is the difference between the catalog and the specimen on the shelf

It is interesting that the clock was shown in the German book "Jahresschrift 2015" - Band 54. In the picture a visible copy from the catalog.

Amor, Cupid (in Roman mythology), Eros (in Greek literature) - Is there any difference between them?

There is also another Amor. This is a large Amor - 38 cm.
I am looking for a directory in which I will find this large Amor.

BOURET (1833 - 1906) - French sculptor, author of many works in marble, bronze and terracotta - exhibited at the Paris Salon in the years 1875 - 1903.

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Kobas

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Eccomi, boy with onions, onion seller.

Catalog number 4/104. Produced in 1922, 23.27,29.32. For the German, French and English market.

Height 40 cm. Patina.

I met the opinion that Eccomi is a sculpture of the German sculptor Franz Iffland. I have not found confirmation of this thesis and I think that Iffland has nothing to do with this figure.

The boy's original figure holds onions in his right hand - "Chinese" - no.

Looking at the rags of this young man one can come to the conclusion that the onion trade at the beginning of the 20th century was not a too profitable occupation

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Kobas

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Rococo (sometimes called the Country Lady or barmaid) produced in 1922 and 1923 appeared in two variants: patinated and gold-plated.
The first one has the catalog number 4/102, the second one is 4/120.
Height 34 cm

Produced on the French, German and English market.

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John Hubby

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Kobas, congratulations on posting so much interesting information about these unique clocks. Per earlier requests I have merged this thread "Mystery Swinger" with the Post Your Junghans Mystery Swingers Here thread. I will also look for other specific mystery swinger threads to merge with this one so we will have them together.
 
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Tempore747

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Kobas

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Our catalog is missing the very popular position "Salome" very often called Cleopatra. Catalog number 4/101
Height 40 cm. Produced in 1922, 23, 27, 29, 32. It was made with patina applied thermally or chemically - greenish or brown.
Wooden base.

Junghans produced this type for the German, French and British market.

Based on the visible signature of the sculptor - Franz Iffland. Chinese products do not have signatures of sculptors - although they often have the Junghans logo on the dial.
Elegance, Gamin, Large Elegant are also the works of Franz Iffland.

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Kobas

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Junghans used at least four types of pendulums. Some collectors say that there were five of them, but nobody saw it in the fifth.

The first type was produced throughout the production of kiwaki 1910 -1938 - 29 years

the second type: 1910,1911,1912,1913, 1914

the third type: 1910,11, 12, 13, 14

the fourth type 1911, 13, 14, 15


An interesting case is Gamin and Groz Elegant. The latter is also called Large Elegant, Joueur, Grand Elegant.

Gamin has the catalog number 4/106 and the Large Elegant 6764

Gamin has a height of 45 cm, a large elegant 47 cm

Both figures are identical, made by the German sculptor Franz Iffland.

The sculptures have the sculptor's signature. Gamin is patinated in brown, while Elegant is golden brown.

Gamin produced in 1915, 23, 27, 29, 32, 33, 34, 45

Large Elegant: 1911,12,13,14,15

The third type of pendulum clock is much larger

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krisill

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Hi,
I have an old onions figure. A bit different from the Junghans Onion figure.
The hat has chicken feathers and the arm has a bigger Onions than the Jungahns Onion holder.
Does anyone know this figure?
Regards.

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Kobas

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Krisill very nice figure. Do you have a clock for this figure?
I think the figure is not Chinese,
I have seen many figures that differ from the images in the Junghans catalogs.
This is a big curiosity and mystery - why there were figures different from their catalog designs.
 

krisill

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Hi Kobas,
Thank you your message. Yes I have a clock in addition.
The clock still my grandels bought about 70 years ago.
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Kobas

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Clock with so-called French line - "Surprise"

The Fontenelle company dealt with the sale of clocks to the French market. From 1900, Fontenelle also sold the clocks of Thomas Haller outside of the Junghans grenades. In order to sell it efficiently, it published catalogs and advertising materials. Unlike the Italian market, it was a company independent of the Junghans company.

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Kidbu

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CB86C4F3-3B81-44CE-ABCC-14D4A8CD8D00.jpeg 96F5B7F6-93E2-47BC-AAC6-EFBC1AFA8C6A.jpeg FA35DE7B-3B03-4421-B3B5-C8D4B1998D6C.jpeg 44CA86B3-C424-49B4-B873-C02FD76D7E1F.jpeg Hello, I’m new. I found this forum looking for information about a Junghans mistery clock I received from my grand mother. Does anyone know the model? Actually a clockmaker si fixing it.
 

Tempore747

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View attachment 473792 View attachment 473793 View attachment 473794 View attachment 473795 Hello, I’m new. I found this forum looking for information about a Junghans mistery clock I received from my grand mother. Does anyone know the model? Actually a clockmaker si fixing it.
Hi, i have the same, with the same clock dial (i am repairing it and for now i replace with another tipe swinging clock). The curiosity is that mine and yours are both marked junghans so difficult there are 2 rare statue with 2 clocks marked junghans (same tipe of pendulum not the one on post 27), for now i can believe those are Mysterieuse clocks from junghans or any official marriage.
 

Kidbu

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Hi, i have the same, with the same clock dial (i am repairing it and for now i replace with another tipe swinging clock). The curiosity is that mine and yours are both marked junghans so difficult there are 2 rare statue with 2 clocks marked junghans (same tipe of pendulum not the one on post 27), for now i can believe those are Mysterieuse clocks from junghans or any official marriage.
My clock is arrived to me from Milan, maybe was produced by an italian division
 

Kobas

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It seems that this may be the original Junghans.
The method of attaching the clock in the figure is characteristic of Junghans (shown in the picture)
You need to find a directory with this clock. I have not seen such a catalog yet.

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