Post your JUNGHANS clocks here

Discussion in 'General Clock Discussions' started by any400day, Dec 2, 2008.

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  1. multibit

    multibit Registered User

    Sep 12, 2011
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    #701 multibit, Sep 9, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 9, 2012
    Thanks for the info guys, I'm especially grateful for the above attachment!
    I paid 30 UKP's for the clock, it will be added to the slowly growing collection .
     
  2. Walt Wallgren

    Walt Wallgren Registered User
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    #702 Walt Wallgren, Sep 19, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 30, 2012
    I found an older Junghans with and integrated crown on an auction site. Note the 5 pointed star in the logo instead of the more common 8 points. It does look as if it may have been refinished but the color of the case is what drew me to it. I should have it cleaned and on the wall within the next couple of weeks. ;)

    Thanks,
    Walt
     

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  3. soaringjoy

    soaringjoy Registered User

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    #703 soaringjoy, Sep 20, 2012
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2012
    Beautiful, thanks for sharing!
    I'm moving this to our standing Junghans thread.

    The clock is listed in Victor Tang's Limited Edition Volume "Gebr. Junghans Schramberg I",
    as the "Othello" from 1882.
    The black trim is original.
     

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  4. Walt Wallgren

    Walt Wallgren Registered User
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    Thanks for the info! I so enjoy learning about my clocks!!

    Walt
     
  5. Walt Wallgren

    Walt Wallgren Registered User
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    I was a little surprised when I tore the movement down tonight to clean it to discover that the plates aren't pinned but held together by a nut. Does anyone know when the practice changed from pins to nuts?

    Thanks,
    Walt
     
  6. soaringjoy

    soaringjoy Registered User

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    It depends on the movement. Some were still pinned in the 1920s.
    Junghans started using nuts pretty much from the starts.
     
  7. Walt Wallgren

    Walt Wallgren Registered User
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    Thanks, Soaringjoy, I will never cease to appreciate the wealth of knowledge we have in these groups!
     
  8. Walt Wallgren

    Walt Wallgren Registered User
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    #708 Walt Wallgren, Sep 29, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 30, 2012
    No that the movement is cleaned and ready to go back to "work" I believe it will be good to add those pix to the thread. I wasn't able to find anything else on the movement except the 5-pointed Junghans star.

    Thanks again everyone for the good info.

    Walt

    Movement Back.jpg Movement Front.jpg
     
  9. soaringjoy

    soaringjoy Registered User

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    The movement indicates an important point in Junghans history, because
    it already was an "original" JH designed model. That is, the company had
    then left the stage of mere copying American types of movements and had
    started to find their own ways of doing things.
     
  10. Walt Wallgren

    Walt Wallgren Registered User
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    Thanks for the new info, Soaringjoy. Is there something specific about the movement that indicates the JH design or just that it is different from the earlier JH movements?

    Walt
     
  11. ClocksCollector

    ClocksCollector Registered User

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    Can you help me determine when my Junghaqns was made. Plate is marked B-20, 104 1/2. The clock is 39 inches tall. I do not think the pendulum is original but not sure. A photo from a catalog would be great. Thanks for your reply.
     

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  12. harold bain

    harold bain Registered User
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    #712 harold bain, Oct 8, 2012
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2012
    Your clock was made in the second half of 1920.
     
  13. ClocksCollector

    ClocksCollector Registered User

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    Thanks Harold. From the wavy glass I thought it was earlier.
     
  14. soaringjoy

    soaringjoy Registered User

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    Don't dispair, wavy glass was common well into the mid 1920s and you shouldn't worry about the
    pendulum either. Not all "Vienna style" wall clocks had the grid "R&A" types.
    Your clock is the "Isar II" (a river through Munich). As shown in the 1923 Junghans catalogue,
    the clock had a choice of headpieces.
     

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  15. ClocksCollector

    ClocksCollector Registered User

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    Thanks soarjoy for your help in identifying/dating my clock. I see that I'm missing two finials for the bottom. Have a good day.
     
  16. Walt Wallgren

    Walt Wallgren Registered User
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  17. soaringjoy

    soaringjoy Registered User

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    #717 soaringjoy, Oct 15, 2012
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2012
    Walt, we cannot know from here, if the springs are original, or have been shortened,
    or switched, or even replaced with any old spring that fits.
    The strike train usually -or often - had a spring slightly more powerful, in order to guarantee,
    that the time side runs down before the strike side. That kept the strike from desynchronizing.
    You might have to wait and see what happens, when you let it run down completely.
    Make some notes on winding times.
    After that, you can still decide, if you want to switch the barrels for another trial run.
    I wouldn't worry too much about it. It's an antique clock and never was intended to be
    a precision instrument.
     
  18. harold bain

    harold bain Registered User
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    The number of turns it unwinds is governed by how many turns the greatwheel makes as it winds down. Not all clocks are geared to have equal unwind between time and strike. If your clock worked for 7 days without the strike going silent, then this applies to your clock. But if you are not sure if the clock kept striking until you rewound it, a not working strike could also account for the difference.
     
  19. Walt Wallgren

    Walt Wallgren Registered User
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    Thanks Jurgen and Harold,

    I will pay closer attention and see what happens between now and next Sunday, winding day.
     
  20. hiteq

    hiteq New Member

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    clock1.jpg clock2.jpg clock3.jpg clock4.jpg


    Hi I just bought this Antique Junghans Clock and this is my first clock and it does work and keeps time but would like to know more about it
     
  21. soaringjoy

    soaringjoy Registered User

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    Hiteq, welcome to the NAWCC Message Board and thanks for posting your clock.

    It is a so called bracket clock, or Stutzuhr in German. The clocks resembled the heads
    of floor clocks, fitted with a spring driven movement and the often came with matching
    wall brackets.
    Your movement was made in the second half of 1909 - and it does need a clean, before you
    let it run. Otherwise damage on bushings and pivots will stop the clock eventually.
    The clock is the model "Lohengrin", as listed in a 1902 Junghans (export) catalogue.
    In details, the case has been altered on yours; the "pineapple" finicals are not original and
    the dial is most probably a replacement too. Those white enamelled dials usually came with Vienna
    style wall clocks. The original was a silvered chapter ring dial with etchings and an ornate brass
    center piece - unless Junghans changed it especially for the Asian market, which I doubt.
    Can you tell us, what the dial says and in which language?
    You may also want to display your country's flag (edit your User Settings). Then we will possibly be
    able to give you some more information, concerning your regional market.
     

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  22. hiteq

    hiteq New Member

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    clock6.jpg

    Here is a better picture of the Dial . Can not tell id it had been replaced but looks like this dial has been there for quite some time due to aging
    I do not know the language but after closer in inspection of the the "pineapple" finicals. I could see that they were indeed replaced with the brass
    in getting a restoration done would that be an easy fix to get those put back.
     
  23. soaringjoy

    soaringjoy Registered User

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    Thanks for the flags - now we at least know, you're not in Southeast Asia,
    as the clock dial might suggest. :D
    Some dials were easily interchangeable and yours may have been a contemparary
    replacement in order to paint on those Chinese words.
    I'm afraid there is no way of knowing when and why, today.
     
  24. JarM

    JarM Registered User

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    #724 JarM, Oct 23, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 23, 2012
    Hello friends.
    I just bought a "chapel" Junghans. I'm getting ready to go to the review of the watchmaker.
    I have a question about the approximate date of manufacture (the mechanism is just a logo without punched digits - Junghans allegedly began to strike digits after 1900).
    Do any of You have a scan of this type of directory Junghans clock - I mean the upper pinnacles (seem to me to be secondary).
    Regards Jarek.
     

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  25. soaringjoy

    soaringjoy Registered User

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    Jarek, yes Junghans had a date code on their movements - sometimes.
    There is no definate golden rule for what they did, though.
    The Junghans star logo was changed in detail in 1918, so yours is before that
    change, I presume just around WW 1.
    I have not found an exact match, but these two from 1902 and 1910 show very
    well, how "kits" were used for cases, with changes made only in details.
    Take this, add that, and they had a "new" model.
     

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  26. JarM

    JarM Registered User

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    soaringjoy thank You very much. My clock is more similar to the model 1910. Small difference is in the construction of the mountains. Regards Jarek.
     
  27. tarant

    tarant Registered User
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    Neurohorologist ;)
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    It's a "Dickens", still produced in 1905.
    Junghans.jpg
     
  28. soaringjoy

    soaringjoy Registered User

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    Yes, indeed it's the Dickens. Thanks, Piotr!
     
  29. clarke

    clarke Registered User

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    Hi,
    According to my partner in China, those two characters on the face translate to roughly: "Broadcast hello", or "Say Hi"
    c.
     
  30. soaringjoy

    soaringjoy Registered User

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    Thank you Clarke!
    I'm wondering, if there was a thought behind that, that makes sense...,
    or if the letters were chosen by coincedence.
     
  31. clarke

    clarke Registered User

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    Oh, there's always a thought. The questions is, who knows what it is??
    This is just the feedback I got from one "interpreter". Over the years, I've learned that Asia has a variety of interpretations of printed characters. I've listed and discussed my Chinese and Japanese clocks and posted pictures on NAWCC forums.

    When it comes to this particular thread:

    In Chinese, there are myriad ways to express things such as two characters and coming back with "Broadcast hello", or "Say Hi".

    Possibilities:

    – Could be what the characters sound like in Chinese and then finding English words that have the same sound and just using them regardless of the meaning, or the "closest sounding/closest DESIRED meaning". Thus here in Hong Kong where I live, there are numerous "Fit Well Tailors", "Shiny Fender" boy shops, ""Trustworthy Investment Services", etc.
    – Could be this particular translation (and there are many opinions of almost any group of Chinese characters) merely reflects the interpreter's bias/opinion.
    – Understand that "sounds" are very important in any Chinese dialect (and there are many, many). One character's sounds when spoken may be similar to other meanings of a similar sound. Chinese characters vary in meaning depending on the tone/sound they are spoken, but when printed (as on this clock's face) no tones are involved to just the printed character is there to be interpreted as one sees fit.

    So Soaringjoy, is there a thought that makes sense? The answer is a definite maybe...sorta...could be... no... absolutely!.... or... who knows?
    But then the obvious question is: why would someone have a Junghans clock and decide to put something even remotely in the ball park of "Broadcast hello", or "Say Hi"?
    That's what makes the whole thing a lot of fun. You think?

    c.
     
  32. soaringjoy

    soaringjoy Registered User

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    You're definately right, Clarke, and in clocks research we all have to live
    with those beloved "definate maybes". ;)
     
  33. harold bain

    harold bain Registered User
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    Here's a different Junghans movement. It calls the quarters with a ting-tang, and gives a Westminster of sorts on the hour, followed by a ting-tang hour strike. The model number tag on the back says "5182", and the movement is trademarked with the 8 point star with a J in the middle. No date code on the movement.
    I'd be curious if this predates the double movements used by New Haven (Willcock chime), patented August 28, 1894. It definately predates the Sonora Chime clocks.
     

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  34. soaringjoy

    soaringjoy Registered User

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    Well, well, look at that.

    Harold, please post a close-up of the JH star, if possible. That too, can be a date indicator.

    I don't think I've seen the "piggy back" type of movement before by Junghans.

    The funny thing behind the historical story is, that Junghans started out with "American" movements, causing other
    German makers of massive movements a hard time. Then, sometime around 1900, Junghans started to produce
    massive movements themselves (!)

    Might be, Albra or Victor could probably know some details; I will have to dig into my stuff later today.
     
  35. harold bain

    harold bain Registered User
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    Here's as good a picture of the logo as my camera will give us, Jergen: Junghans trademark_0206.jpg
     
  36. Walt Wallgren

    Walt Wallgren Registered User
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    [QUOTE=

    I've had this clock back on the wall over a week now and have discovered something unusual. In the clock repair board I had a question about a JH time only R/A with and eccentric swing. Harold told me that it might be a 14 day clock based on 3 or 7 turns to completely wind the clock. I filed that away and yesterday when I wound THIS clock, I noticed it took 3 turns to wind the strike and 7 to wind the time. OK, so which is it a 14 day or a 7 day and should I change one of the springs to make it match. If so, which one?
    [/QUOTE]

    OK, I have gone through 2 complete cycles to make sure I had it right. The numbers I stated to before, were actually half-turns. So, the correct numbers are 1 1/2 turns to wind the strike and 3 1/2 turns for the time. The number of strikes continues to match the hour so I know the strike isn't stopping. When I took the movement apart and cleaned it, the springs "looked" to be the same, no sign of repair, shortening, etc. It looks as if the time spring is a 14 day. Based on what Harold said, this I can understand. I am definitely confused as to what's up with the strike. Should I make the strike match the time? Could the strike spring be for a month runner? Should I just not worry about it as Jurgen said? Part of me is thinking, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." The clock is running fine an keeping good time. The other part of me wants it "right." I'm just not sure what "right" is.

    Pictures of the clock and movement are on page 49, posts 729 and 735.

    As always, I appreciate your help,
    Walt
     
  37. harold bain

    harold bain Registered User
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    You would have to re-engineer the strike side (change tooth counts) to have the amount of unwinding be equal on both trains. Changing the spring would have no effect, assuming it actually is striking on every hour. If it makes you happier, you could assume the clock had a repeat strike option, which would have caused it to run down at the same rate as the time spring, but yours doesn't have the option:whistle:.
     
  38. soaringjoy

    soaringjoy Registered User

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    #738 soaringjoy, Oct 30, 2012
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2012
    Harold, you got me into a fix.
    First, the bracket clock you've shown is the "Bells" No. 5182, from Victor's 1905 JH
    catalogue CD; the next page shows a clock with the off-set third winding arbor, so we
    can be assured it was exactly that movement being used. Unfortunately, there are no
    movement pics.
    The 1/4 Glockenspiel gong was used until at least 1911, and so I believe your movement
    is the fore-runner of the No. 103, as pictured below.
    What makes it all itchy is that according to a newer publication of Schramberg Museum,
    Junghans started to offer Westminster movements in 1909.
    So there's a glitch somewhere and I hope I can find it.

    The JH star on your movement applies to the period and was in use until 1918.

    The earliest mention of a JH Glockenspiel / Westminster is 1904 / 1905. Glockenspiel1904.jpg
     

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  39. chimeclockfan

    chimeclockfan Registered User
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    The round chime block is alternatively known as the Rohr-Gong (DRP 154523) and was used up to the 1920's on bracket clock designs.

    I've seen a handful of these Junghans piggy-back movements, most do a ting-tang quarter strike then the Westminster on top of the hour. Some strike the hours on a ting-tang, others strike on one note.
     
  40. harold bain

    harold bain Registered User
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    Jurgen, I suspect this one was from around 1900, since they started using the date code markings by at least 1902. It isn't a true Westminster, just a closely similar chime. It's missing the normal 1st quarter sequential run. Took me a while to figure that it wasn't out of sync (can't easily change the order, as the chime drum is pinned to the arbor, and the stop cam is on the same arbor).
     
  41. Walt Wallgren

    Walt Wallgren Registered User
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    Thank you, Harold. Sometimes I suffer from can't see the forest for the trees, syndrome. :bang: Everything you say is perfectly logical and true (as I stand in front of the mirror and shout at myself, Well, Duh!) Of course the spring will unwind the same number of turns no matter how strong it is. (Well, Duh again) If you are 20 miles from San Francisco, you are going to be 20 miles from San Francisco whether you are in a Porsche or a pedal car. I am so grateful that I was given the ability to laugh at myself when my logic is slightly flawed or I do something really dumb. Needless to say, I laugh a LOT.

    Thanks, again,
    Walt
     
  42. soaringjoy

    soaringjoy Registered User

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    Well, no laws without exceptions and they did run production lines without the date code.
    Afaik, there is nothing recorded about the system Junghans used.
    CCF is right about the gong's DRP 154523 (Tongeber für Schlaguhren), which also held
    the U.S.patent 773,646 (Clock Bell). Yes, a "sound maker" and a "bell"...
    But, both were applied for in 1903 and published/granted in 1904, which fits fine with the ad, oder?
    Personally, I feel fine with a dating of "ca. 1900" for an "oddball movement". ;)
     

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  43. kokonut

    kokonut Registered User

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    I would like to ask you a question about this mechanism.It would be awesome if you could give some more details about it because I' ve never seen before like this.
     
  44. Sergei

    Sergei Registered User

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    #744 Sergei, Nov 24, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 24, 2012
    Hey.
    Such mechanisms Junghans production are common.
    I came across a few pieces, and all have been made about 1907.
    Sincerely.
    Sergey.
     
  45. soaringjoy

    soaringjoy Registered User

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    Kokonut, the movement with the large countwheel is known
    and can be found every once in a while.
    Sergey is right, it's a pre WW1 movement and I have seen two
    or three marked A 08, which is 1908.
     
  46. kokonut

    kokonut Registered User

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    That is it is possible to assume that he is quite rare.
     
  47. soaringjoy

    soaringjoy Registered User

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    Rare? Well no. Uncommon perhaps.
    When you start looking for these specifically, you'll find quite a few. :)
     
  48. kokonut

    kokonut Registered User

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    I understand, I saw for the first time and I thought that it was some rarity.
     
  49. pidragos

    pidragos Registered User

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    #749 pidragos, Dec 18, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 18, 2012
    Dear all, I have in my clocks collection one interesting version from Junghans that could not be identified by my connection in Junghans company. They told me they cannot find this type in their archives/ catalogs. I guess this "I" letter in a 8 corners star and Junghans writing was a type manufactured outside Germany (according Mikrolisk), probably in England? In addition it has a "WALD GONG", meaning Forest Gong, and 22847S number, together with the DRP mark, as patent number (Deutsche Reich Patent I think). The movement is stamped different, with "J" inside the star and the writing also. Can anyone give details what is about? I am wondering why Junghans has no info about this type of clock. Thanks, Dpl.Eng.Dragos Poponea
     

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  50. Albra

    Albra Registered User

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    #750 Albra, Dec 18, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 18, 2012
    Greetings Dragos,

    the patent number on the gong-holder gives a very exakt date of your clock. It was granted to Junghans in Nov. 1910, thus your clock was made befor WW 1. And no doubt: Your clock was made in Germany.

    The different logo on the movement and dial are not of deeper meaning: Junghans used simultaneously at this time different logos, but we do not know exactly when they were introduced. And of course tools were not thrown away just because annother logo has come up.

    Also the registration of logos does not help, because catalogs of Junghans can show logos that have been officially registered years later.

    And that today at Junghans such details are not longer known, nobody should be surprised ...

    albra
     

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