Post your IBM/ITR Time Recorder Clocks here

Discussion in 'General Clock Discussions' started by harold bain, Jun 3, 2010.

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  1. harold bain

    harold bain Registered User
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    #1 harold bain, Jun 3, 2010
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2010
    I've been working on this one for a customer over the past few weeks. It is a Canadian made model 1200, made in 1925. Note the unique IBM logo on the dial, one I haven't seen before. It prints day of week, hours and minutes, with PM highlighted with a line under the hour. It is a 6 hroizontal column in/out, with a daily card used (the carriage doesn't go up and down, this was an option).
    The day indicator has to be manually shifted daily with a knob on the left side (it is not connected with the typewheels). It has a lock on this function as well as one on the horizontal card shifter (uses same key as the case lock). The card in the clock indicates it was installed October 9, 1925. Serial number 2510103 confirms date.
    It measures 46 inches tall with a 1/2 inch dial.

    IBM model 1200_0010.jpg IBM model 1200_0012.jpg IBM model 1200_0011.jpg IBM model 1200_0015.jpg IBM model 1200_0014.jpg IBM model 1200_0013.jpg Time card for 1200 _0024.jpg
     
  2. Steven Thornberry

    Steven Thornberry User Administrator
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    Harold:

    I've added this to the sticky at the top of the forum. Should be an interesting thread.
     
  3. harold bain

    harold bain Registered User
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    Thanks, Steven. I thought it would be a good idea to document clocks like this one in one thread for easier research. I will look for some earlier threads/posts to add to this one.
     
  4. Kevin W.

    Kevin W. Registered User
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    Interesting clock Harold, reminds me of one i believe i saw at the museum.
    Do these types of clocks come up often for sale?
     
  5. harold bain

    harold bain Registered User
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    I see them quite often at auctions, and ebay. But I would hate to pay the shipping, they are quite heavy.
     
  6. jacks61fd

    jacks61fd Registered User

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    International Time recorder

    International Time Recorder Co..jpg
     
  7. harold bain

    harold bain Registered User
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    Nice clock, Jack. Does it have a date? Serial number? Model number? Looks very much like the clock in my first post.
     
  8. harold bain

    harold bain Registered User
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    #8 harold bain, Jun 4, 2010
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2018
    Here is my model 8100 job cost recorder. Serial number 2204201 dates it to 1922. It punches date, hour and minutes. It is 32 inches tall with a 7 inch dial.
    The card is slid across the card receiver to where it lines up with the marker on the plate above, to where you want the punch to be, then pull the lever down to make the punch. The date wheel has to be reset in months without 31 days.
    Note the "globe" trademark, as commonly found on IBM clocks.
    Also note the movement serial number doesn't match the clock. They never do.

    IBM model 8100_0017.jpg IBM model 8100_0018.jpg IBM model 8100_0020.jpg IBM model 8100_0019.jpg IBM model 8100_0021.jpg IBM model 8100_0022.jpg IBM model 8100_0023.JPG
     
  9. RickB

    RickB Registered User

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    I had pictures of mine, but I can't locate them on the computer right new. I know they're here...somewhere. I'll post them here as soon as I find them again or I'll take new ones.
     
  10. csers

    csers Registered User

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    Hi Harold,

    Take a look at a thread you originated on 02-11-2005, 11:32 AM. I'm fairly certain that the clock I had at that time has the same IBM logo as the one you have recently repaired. I no longer have that clock, but can probably come up with a photo of the dial. That serial number was 2306114.

    I'll see what I can do about obtaining a photo.

    Regards,

    Manuel
     
  11. harold bain

    harold bain Registered User
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    Hi, Manuel, I recall that thread. Too bad the pictures didn't survive. If you find anything, post it.
     
  12. csers

    csers Registered User

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    Here's an early (1909) ITR card recorder. The clock next to it is probably one of the latest models of the Bundy/ITR era. The ITR/Bundy clocks were made for a short period of time after ITR bought Bundy. This one is a key recorder that still maintains the lower recording unit. Most of the Bundy/ITR key recorders had the lower units removed when they were decommissioned.The clock on the far right is a Bundy/ITR dial recorder and next to it is the dial. The plaque on the bottom of the clock is a Bundy plaque, but the dial says International Time Recording.

    ITR&Bundy.JPG ITRdial.jpg Bundykey&bob.JPG Bundy.JPG Bundydial.jpg
     
  13. harold bain

    harold bain Registered User
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    Nice group of clocks, Manuel. I love the old Bundy's:thumb:
     
  14. harold bain

    harold bain Registered User
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    #14 harold bain, Jun 9, 2010
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2018
    Here is another job cost recorder. Serial number 3802703 dates it to 1938. It has no model number tag, but is very similar to the model 8100 I posted earlier. When I first saw it, I wondered why someone would paint it black. Closer look convinced me this is how it came from the factory. It is a wrinkle finish. Also appears to be missing top trim, but I don't think it ever had anything but the flat top it has now.
    Height 29 inches with a 7 inch dial. Punches date, hour and minutes.

    IBM 8100_0025.jpg IBM 8100_0026.jpg IBM 8100_0027.jpg
     
  15. harold bain

    harold bain Registered User
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    #15 harold bain, Jun 24, 2010
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2018
    This one is a bit newer, and electric (telechron rotor and field). It is a model 8400-5, Canadian made in Toronto, serial number 469145, dating it to 1946. This is at odds with the IBM archives website that says this model was first introduced in 1949.
    It is a consecutive space clock that could be used for attendance or job costing. Each punch takes a little hole out of the card, which is found to locate the next punch under the previous one.
    It also had a bell ringer option using two discs, with pieces cut out to time the ringing for breaks or start and quit times (this one has the option, but the discs are missing).
    A small, popular clock, that was also made by Simplex after they bought IBM's time division (their consecutive space model was less than successful, from a service point of view). It is 11 inches high by 7 inches wide, by 7 inches deep, including the mounting bracket.

    IBM 8400_0032.jpg IBM 8400_0033.jpg IBM 8400_0034.jpg IBM 8400_0035.JPG
     
  16. rll

    rll New Member

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    Hi. I'd appreciate any information on an International Time Recording clock serial number 310373, which the IBM site dates to 1926. It doesn't punch a card, but was connected to external bells. It is key wound, and still running nicely.

    clock-sm.jpg Clock plate-sm.jpg wiring diagram clock-sm.jpg
     
  17. harold bain

    harold bain Registered User
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    Hi, rll, welcome to the message board. Interesting clock. It looks like they used a time recorder case, and shortened it to house the bell program unit, although the recessed sides are not used on time recorder cases that I have seen. Strange they didn't put any model number down on the ID tag. It isn't one I've seen before. Nice find.
     
  18. Ralph

    Ralph Registered User
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    I have an identical clock as RLL's squirreled away. It's the last of my IBM clocks. I used to have a few of them... masters and time clocks. My second to last one burned up in a fire. It was a model as shown earlier in this thread. It had the fancy cast iron cover over the punch unit... there were variations.

    Ralph
     
  19. John Lippold

    John Lippold Registered User
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    Your clock is called a "Wheel Type Program Clock (Key Wound)". They had no style (model) number but were furnished in two capacities: No. 1 will control one circuit of bells and will furnish a different schedule on Saturday from other days of the week. No. 2 will control two circuits of bells with a different schedule on each circuit. I have more information and photos if you are interested... John
     
  20. harold bain

    harold bain Registered User
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    Hi, John, welcome to the message board. Please do post any pictures and information you may have on these clocks:D.
     
  21. John Lippold

    John Lippold Registered User
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    #21 John Lippold, Feb 3, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 30, 2018
    Harold, here is some additional information on the Wheel Type Program Clock (Key Wound). I have taken pictures of several circa 1923 documents and will also send photos of a No. 1 Program Clock in my collection.

    DSC00236-m.jpg DSC00237-m.jpg DSC00238-m.jpg kwwtpc-01-s.jpg kwwtpc-02-s.jpg kwwtpc-03-s.jpg
     
  22. MCCLINTOCK-LOOMIS

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    #22 MCCLINTOCK-LOOMIS, Feb 3, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 30, 2018
    Here's one you haven't seen before,being it's my own design. I had an extra movement for an ITR hanging in the shop so one day I got the idea to build an outside clock using it. Built the case from Honduras mahogany and beefed it up a bit to handle the 40+ lbs. of the 24 in. marble dial. designed the dial to replicate ITR logo and numbers. Then had a local sign company make a rubber mask so I could sandblast the the face similar to a tombstone,should last longer than me. It's mounted about 15 feet off the ground so I made an extension pole with swivel to wind. Oh I had another ITR movement with dial and built a case for it from an old piano. It hangs at ground level in the dining room.
    George

    gable clock8.jpg gable clock2.jpg gable clock1.jpg
     
  23. harold bain

    harold bain Registered User
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    Thanks, John, that's great documentation with your clock. I'm guessing this type of programmer was made obsolete by the big disc programmers like this one combined with my model 17-7 master clock:
    attachment.jpg
     
  24. harold bain

    harold bain Registered User
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    George, that's quite the clock. How do you wind it? Does it survive well in the elements (humidity, rain, etc)?
     
  25. MCCLINTOCK-LOOMIS

    MCCLINTOCK-LOOMIS Registered User
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    Thanks Harold, To wind I have made an aluminum extension pole with a lathe turned knob at one end and a swivel at the other end with a modified time recorder key affixed. The only thing I should have added is an outside lever to get the pendulum going if it misses getting wound on Fridays (clock winding day) Otherwise I have to get a ladder and go up on roof just to give the pendulum a push, I plan to ad lever in the spring. As for it holding up to the elements it has been no problem. I used to be a boat builder and home builder so I know what to do to protect properly. Honduras mahogany is glued up with epoxy, sealed with ship and shore sealer then several coats of spar varnish. After rebuilding the movement I waxed all parts to help stave off corrosion. A couple of months ago one of the old mainsprings broke literally blew up into several pieces but no other damage. I was pleased to find the movement looked as good as when I assembled it 2 years ago. Another couple of things to help it seal out the elements are the gasket around the case behind dial and oil soaked felts around the base of winding arbors. The marble is also sealed.
    George
     
  26. soaringjoy

    soaringjoy Registered User

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    #26 soaringjoy, Feb 4, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 30, 2018
    Well, only one picture left of the clock.
    The dial said "Berlin"; the pendulum bob was
    scratch made.
    It hab its original T-shaped winding key with it.
    The clock was in use in a cable and wire factrory in Cologne,
    until they closed down in the 1970s.
    A former worker took it home and there, it hung in the stairway.
    He told me, that his old foreman used to say:
    "When it loses 5 minutes, you have to wind it up again...":)

    Jurgen

    ITR01.jpg
     
  27. harold bain

    harold bain Registered User
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    Jurgen, looks like a time recorder that was cut down to be a wall clock. The IBM factory used to do this as an incentive to trade in the old clock, knowing it would never again be a time recorder in competition with their new clocks.
     
  28. MQ32shooter

    MQ32shooter Registered User
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    Here ya go Harold.

    Image003.jpg
     
  29. harold bain

    harold bain Registered User
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    Thanks, Mel, looks great. Similar to my model 1161. :thumb::thumb:
     
  30. karenlewis

    karenlewis New Member

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    #30 karenlewis, Feb 5, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 30, 2018
    Hi

    I bought this clock a couple of years ago and would like to know more about it if anyone can help

    Thanks

    Karen

    DSC00906.JPG
     
  31. harold bain

    harold bain Registered User
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    Hi, Karen, welcome to the message board. Your clock is what is known as a "dial" clock. This type of clock had a very long production run from the late 1800's til around the 1940's. If you have a serial number we could date it for you. Is it a "4 door" model?
     
  32. karenlewis

    karenlewis New Member

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  33. harold bain

    harold bain Registered User
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    #33 harold bain, Feb 6, 2011
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2011
    Karen, in the same archives you linked to, I found your clock's serial number dates it to 1930. The basic model would have had options that would make it appear to be different. Unusual not to have a window at the bottom for viewing the pendulum.
    I find this picture interesting, showing how these large clocks were installed in a factory:
    http://www-03.ibm.com/ibm/history/exhibits/cc/cc_YK00285.html
     
  34. John Lippold

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    Hello RLL, I did post some additional information about these program clocks in another post. If you click on my name and select "Find all posts by John Lippold" you will see the other post. If you down load the photos I posted, and enlarge them, I think you will be able to read more details about these clocks.
    The clock in the photos is in my collection (S/N 282562). It is a little older than your clock (late 1924) but very similar. It also runs perfectly and rings a buzzer at various times as programmed... I hope this is helpful... John
     
  35. bkerr

    bkerr Registered User
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    I don't know how I missed this thread? One of my favorites, time recorders! I have a few and think I have pics on the laptop. Hold on I'll take a look------

    Okay I found a few

    Yes, that is yellow house paint YUK just the way I found it on Ebay. I went to Cleveland to pick it up. I really liked the dial! After stripping the yellow paint, the quarter saw oak was fantastic! I bushed, cleaned and oiled the movement. It is on the wall in the clock shop. I'll look for more pics of others.

    cleveland clock.jpg Cleveland Clock 2.jpg Cleveland dial.jpg Cleveland movement.jpg
     
  36. bkerr

    bkerr Registered User
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    Reference was made to cutting down the cases and removing the recorders. Here is one that was painted red. After a stripping you can see the oak is very nice. I'll never understand why these got painted. Look close in the oic and youll see two other movements on the test stands. The one furthest away is a thirty day movement.

    IMG_1001 time recorder cut down.jpg
     
  37. harold bain

    harold bain Registered User
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    I've come to like my cut down Simplex clock, as a complete one is rare enough that I am unlikely to find one in a price range that I would pay for it.
    attachment.jpg

    See this thread for discussion on this one:
    https://mb.nawcc.org/showthread.php?t=35009
     
  38. anwimo

    anwimo Registered User

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    #38 anwimo, Feb 14, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 30, 2018
    Hi - I've enjoyed following all the Posts on the ITR clocks. I especially liked the one with the Yellow Ebay clock that had the paint stripped off to reveal a beauty underneath.

    I also have an ITR, serial No. 242303 dated 2-26-23. I got this from a friend of mine that was working for Milwaukee Engraving and saved this gem from being scrapped. I finally "bartered" it away from him in about 1972 or '73. He traded it because he never used it.

    So I brought it home, set it up and I've pretty much have had it running ever since then.

    Unfortunately, about 2 years ago, one of the mainsprings (the one for the date & time recording portion) let go with a pretty big bang. The good news is that it did not damage any internal mechanisms when it broke. I've been able to keep it going using just the clock portion of the mechanism.

    I'm attaching a few pics of this clock in the hope that someone can steer me to where I can find a replacement mainspring. I sure would like to get it replaced, so the clock will be intact again.

    Thanks for any help anyone can provide.........

    Bill

    1 Front .jpg 2 Door Open.jpg 3 Inside .jpg 4 Inside Label.jpg 5 Serial Plate.jpg
     
  39. harold bain

    harold bain Registered User
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    Thanks for posting Bill. I've never had to source a spring for one of these yet, and I don't know the specs for them. We have a supplier who could custom make one, but you need to know the length, thickness and width. I suspect Timesavers part # 15959 would work. It's 3/4 x .0165 x 120". This movement has both springs driving a single pinion, so if one spring is a bit weaker, it shouldn't have a major effect on it's operation.
    www.timesavers.com
     
  40. John Lippold

    John Lippold Registered User
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    Hi Bill,

    The main springs are .037" thick. That is what the 037 stands for on the front of the clock movement... John
     
  41. anwimo

    anwimo Registered User

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    Thanks Harold & John for the ITR Mainspring info. I'll check out the Timesavers part # 15959 to see if it would work. You said it's 3/4 x .0165 x 120" so I'll compare that to the old spring that's sitting on my bench now.

    If it's looks like it will work, I'll probably have a clock guy I know put it in. I hear it's a pretty daunting task doing those....... (he says you need like 3 hands to do it!)

    I'll let you know how I come out...

    Thanks again!

    Bill
     
  42. harold bain

    harold bain Registered User
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    You would likely have to have a spring custom made to match the broken one. Let us know how thick yours are.
    This company can help with custom springs:
    Larry Wise
    Timewise (formerly Tani Engineering)
    Phone 330-947-0047 email: twclock08@att.net
     
  43. anwimo

    anwimo Registered User

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    Harold - I think the Timesavers Mainspring may not work. I measured the thickness of the Spring removed from my ITR and it's 3/4 x .038 by my micrometer. Probably have to be a custom made spring. Bill
     
  44. bkerr

    bkerr Registered User
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    Bill, are you wanting the time recorder part to be fuctional? If so then replace with a like spring. If not and all you want is a time keeper you can remove the drive shaft and replace with MUCH lighter springs.

    Be careful, those orginal springs are pretty stiff!
     
  45. harold bain

    harold bain Registered User
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    Yeah, it would be unbalanced/underpowered with a lighter thickness spring on one side. Better to get the correct size. Let us know if Larry Wise can help you with the correct spring.
     
  46. bkerr

    bkerr Registered User
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    Your right Harold. One needs to change both sorry if that was misleading. Those springsseem to be scarce here (or I don't know where to look).
    I just finished one up this weekend that had a scraped looking surface on the plates (like a good milling machine way surface) any idea why that was done? Kind of looks neat.
     
  47. harold bain

    harold bain Registered User
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    I've seen some older movments that had plates that were damaskeened from the factory. Not sure why, as they are only seen by those who service the clock. But a nice touch.:D
     
  48. StoveBolt

    StoveBolt Registered User

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    ITR Master & Recorder

    oakmaster.JPG timeclock.JPG
     
  49. StoveBolt

    StoveBolt Registered User

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    Double sided ITR Hall Slave..

    http://www.frontiernet.net/~irishhills/hallclock.JPG
    189.jpg
    190.jpg
     
  50. twfmd@hotmail.com

    twfmd@hotmail.com New Member

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    Hello,
    I have an International Time Recorder clock with the serial number 16778. Can anyone tell me when it was made?
    Thanks very much.
    Tom
     

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