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Post Your Gustav Becker Clocks Here
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The patent number 171659 was issued in 1906 for a feature of the striking mechanism...and the patent was used to about 1922 per what John Hubby has written. Note that there is a serial number under that oblong plate below all the logos. If you remove the plate, the serial number will be helpful for narrowing in on a manufacture period.
Kurt
Kurt
I think you should start a new thread somewhere explaining the dilemma you're in. Show additional pictures of the various pieces. Let the other experts give you guidance on how to proceed.
Kurt
Kurt
A reintroduction to my first VFU/Gustav Becker mantel clock, circa 1927. Case No. 406. Westminster/Whittington chime on rod gongs.
This clock arrived back in 2012 when I purchased it from Gaius Coleman of Scotland. The clock arrived with wrecked rods. It was a matter of studying how the rods were made and tuned before a suitable set could eventually be furnished. Many different rods were tried out in differing diameters and materials. I was not impressed with the first attempt but practice makes perfect.
There was also the 'slight' nuance of the old German chime rods manufacturer suddenly going out of business in 2018 which saw multiple attempts at trying new rods from different suppliers from other countries. The end of German gong making was the end of over 100 years of a tradition that was obscure as it was admired. The first 'go' at using rods from a non-German source was a disaster: none of the rods rang out at all. Dead sound. This was back in 2019. Luckily a new manufacturer has been found and the results thus far have been good.
Just the same type of sound as the original rods would have given in 1927.
When the case was cleaned up it was found an old dedication tag had been removed at some point.
A new nameboard giving the movement's model designation has been custom made as replacement.
The difference in performance between this earlier 'Wewi Gong' and the later example is the tail-less hammers
provide a more erratic hammerblow which results in a quieter sound. The chimes play slower due to the hammers weighing down on their
lifts at all times. The later Wewi gong has tailed hammers which are supported by a bracket, resulting in louder & faster chimes.
Timekeeping is good but that stubby little pendulum must be adjusted to the touch to maintain accuracy within 1 minute per week.
There is much more to write up elsewhere but why not have some nice photos and a video?
This clock arrived back in 2012 when I purchased it from Gaius Coleman of Scotland. The clock arrived with wrecked rods. It was a matter of studying how the rods were made and tuned before a suitable set could eventually be furnished. Many different rods were tried out in differing diameters and materials. I was not impressed with the first attempt but practice makes perfect.
There was also the 'slight' nuance of the old German chime rods manufacturer suddenly going out of business in 2018 which saw multiple attempts at trying new rods from different suppliers from other countries. The end of German gong making was the end of over 100 years of a tradition that was obscure as it was admired. The first 'go' at using rods from a non-German source was a disaster: none of the rods rang out at all. Dead sound. This was back in 2019. Luckily a new manufacturer has been found and the results thus far have been good.
Just the same type of sound as the original rods would have given in 1927.
When the case was cleaned up it was found an old dedication tag had been removed at some point.
A new nameboard giving the movement's model designation has been custom made as replacement.
The difference in performance between this earlier 'Wewi Gong' and the later example is the tail-less hammers
provide a more erratic hammerblow which results in a quieter sound. The chimes play slower due to the hammers weighing down on their
lifts at all times. The later Wewi gong has tailed hammers which are supported by a bracket, resulting in louder & faster chimes.
Timekeeping is good but that stubby little pendulum must be adjusted to the touch to maintain accuracy within 1 minute per week.
There is much more to write up elsewhere but why not have some nice photos and a video?
Yesterday I was able to buy a nice Gustav Becker "as is". The movement's serial number is 2,279,481. The interior of the clock says "3/4 Westminster" and it contains 8 chime rods. I held my breath and expected the worst when I removed the clock face, but the only surprise is the pendulum leader. Despite the dirt, the movement managed a few ticks, which is promising.
Can someone help identify what has happened with the pendulum leader? The metal at the top of the wood pendulum doesn't look original either. I intend to return the clock to running condition, but am not a stickler for original Gustav parts. Any solution that doesn't require so much solder would satisfy me. Finally, I was going to replace the suspension spring with a #6. Would that work?
Any additional history would be appreciated!
Thanks in advance for your suggestions!
Can someone help identify what has happened with the pendulum leader? The metal at the top of the wood pendulum doesn't look original either. I intend to return the clock to running condition, but am not a stickler for original Gustav parts. Any solution that doesn't require so much solder would satisfy me. Finally, I was going to replace the suspension spring with a #6. Would that work?
Any additional history would be appreciated!
Thanks in advance for your suggestions!
Your clock utilizes the same movement shown in this 1924 catalog page. It will play Westminster on 3 quarter hours, then on the hour just strikes out the hours. 3/4 Westminster chimes were once popular as cost-cut offerings compared to a three train 4/4 Westminster chime movement.
A similar case appears in the 1912 catalog and could be had with a variety of different movements.
Your clock movement should have a chronological serial number indicating the year of manufacture. John Hubby has the serial database. As there is no documentation on what size leaders, suspensions were used on these movements, replacing those parts is a matter of trial and error unless someone else has the same movement to use for measurement references.
A similar case appears in the 1912 catalog and could be had with a variety of different movements.
Your clock movement should have a chronological serial number indicating the year of manufacture. John Hubby has the serial database. As there is no documentation on what size leaders, suspensions were used on these movements, replacing those parts is a matter of trial and error unless someone else has the same movement to use for measurement references.
The leader does look a bit "home made", and the pendulum hook is not what I would have expected with a GB, but I can't see why it would not work. The pendulum hook would hook over the horizontal bar on the leader and the two prongs on leader would go on either side of the pendulum hook to steady it and prevent it flexing at that join. I would be tempted to remove some of the excess solder to neaten it up.
*THANK YOU* chimeclockfan and Walesey!
My wife is so appreciative, and amazed that people know so much, so quickly.
The link between the leader and wood pendulum is snug, with only a smidgen of play between the joint. It is also hidden by the clock face, so I won't worry about the appearance. However, I would love to know if it is near the correct length (mine is 4.0-inches, or 112-mm long).
My wife is so appreciative, and amazed that people know so much, so quickly.
The link between the leader and wood pendulum is snug, with only a smidgen of play between the joint. It is also hidden by the clock face, so I won't worry about the appearance. However, I would love to know if it is near the correct length (mine is 4.0-inches, or 112-mm long).
Nice! Thank you, Kurt! I know this forum warns us to not trust the serial number / date tables found on the internet, but I expected late 1920's. My wife called the clock "vintage" since we didn't think it crossed the 100-year threshold yet. This makes our find all the more sweet.
As far as the length of the pendulum is concerned, it is probably a safe bet that whoever made up the pendulum leader that you have, would have already done the hard yards and calculations, etc and made it to the correct length. Chimeclockfan has included a catalogue photo of your clock. Does your pendulum appear to be in about the same place in the door glass as the catalogue photo?
I assume that you will strip the clock down to clean and oil it, When you do, you will be able to do a wheel tooth and pinion count and calculate accurately the exact number of beats per hour for your clock, and calculate a pendulum length from there, but until then, you might be able to coax it to run by simply oiling all the pivots and winding it up. Don't run it dirty for too long because you may cause unnecessary wear in the pivot bearings, but if you run it for just a day, that might be enough to see if the rate is "in the right ball park"
Walesey
I assume that you will strip the clock down to clean and oil it, When you do, you will be able to do a wheel tooth and pinion count and calculate accurately the exact number of beats per hour for your clock, and calculate a pendulum length from there, but until then, you might be able to coax it to run by simply oiling all the pivots and winding it up. Don't run it dirty for too long because you may cause unnecessary wear in the pivot bearings, but if you run it for just a day, that might be enough to see if the rate is "in the right ball park"
Walesey
Thanks again, Walesey!
I currently don't have a suspension spring, though I may be able to fake it with a piece of string for now. Also, the brass is black (soot?), despite the photos. It is pretty dirty. I will definitely count the gear teeth when I take it apart.
The back of the movement has "P48" stamped on it, which I think means the pendulum length is 48-cm. When I measure from the top of the pendulum leader to the middle of the bob, the lengths can range from 33.0-37.8 cm. When I measure from the top of the pendulum leader to the bottom of the bob, the lengths can range from 38.7-43.5 cm.
I have included photos of the pendulum inside the case (using a small loop of floss to replace the suspension spring), at the highest and lowest lengths. The piece of electrical tape on the bob represents the middle. Also included is a photo of the back of the movement which shows the pendulum leader just peeking out below the wood support.
Finally, I have included a photo of some hardware at the bottom of the case. Does anyone know its function?
Thanks again!
-Larry
I currently don't have a suspension spring, though I may be able to fake it with a piece of string for now. Also, the brass is black (soot?), despite the photos. It is pretty dirty. I will definitely count the gear teeth when I take it apart.
The back of the movement has "P48" stamped on it, which I think means the pendulum length is 48-cm. When I measure from the top of the pendulum leader to the middle of the bob, the lengths can range from 33.0-37.8 cm. When I measure from the top of the pendulum leader to the bottom of the bob, the lengths can range from 38.7-43.5 cm.
I have included photos of the pendulum inside the case (using a small loop of floss to replace the suspension spring), at the highest and lowest lengths. The piece of electrical tape on the bob represents the middle. Also included is a photo of the back of the movement which shows the pendulum leader just peeking out below the wood support.
Finally, I have included a photo of some hardware at the bottom of the case. Does anyone know its function?
Thanks again!
-Larry
I agree with JTD. I presume that they are attached and have a sharp point which goes through the case and when screwed down, would poke into the wall behind, preventing the clock from tilting on its mounting screw.. I have a Vienna regulator type wall clock with similar stabilisers on the OUTSIDE of the case. They leave a small divot in the plasterboard wall.
Hello Larry
I am not an expert on this subject, but the length of the pendulum (P48), goes from the spring to the lower end of the pendulum. The parts that determine that extension (48 cm) are the spring, the pendulum extender and the pendulum.
If the pendulum extender seems to be modified as I saw in some pics you uploaded, then you have to find an original one with the precise size. There are spare parts of these clocks available in the web. Springs you could find as well. Some of them have the exact size for a GB clock. I bought some of them some years ago in the US.
Regards,
Sergio
Just read that today and yes, me is aware John is the untoucbale holy grail at this place which he deserves!
Even so, he is mistaken on above.
The Medaille d'Or was NOT awarded 1875 but at the
'Schlesische Industrieausstellung' 1852.
Although it is not clear when it became a permanent mark on the back plate, there is no reason why all of the sudden GB takes down his "Mercedes Star" and stamps a lousy "GUSTAV BECKER FREIBURG i/S" instead. A matter of pride, vanity and commerce
now and then.
In my opinion movemnets of the VFU around 1900 and Braunau after 1918.
But I cannot proof that, so can't John the other way round.
Hence I consider it a draw.
May he and many other here forgive me for my disobedience ;-)
Did you read post 682 in this thread? You need to watch your tone so that you do not come across as belittling the research of a person who has spent a number of years and has put forth a great deal of effort in studying Gustav Becker. John would be the first to admit that new information could change his opinion on a great number of things; however, you do not seem to have provided such new information.
Dear Steven,
It is obvious you do not care at all the courteous sandwich I squeezed my concern in to avoid exact such a response.
Just to make myself as clear as you did:
1st
You may talk with this parental threatening undertone to your wife or kids or pupils. Not to someone, probably your age, who also has earned some reputation at this place with a tenth of posts others
need for.
2nd:
John, hope he is well, can still speak for himself, in case he wants.
And if not, I am pretty sure he is not happy at all been safeguarded that way.
Anyway, if you believe that GB made this kind of simple
movements in those simple industrial designed cases, which can be found on EBay in hundreds every month and my issue is done and dusted as such because John said other - not my cup of tea.
I go with common sense and the beauty those clocks where made
at the times.
Take care.
"It is easier to bamboozle than to debamboozle"
(Norman Angell, 1927)
ps
"Did you read post 682 in this thread?
No.
Because it is common sense that nobody, including you, has the nerve to read through hundreds of posts for being perfect on the
issue or worse - in fear of been bullied in case he oversaw something...
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I'm used to polite communication on this forum, please read this post https://mb.nawcc.org/threads/post-your-gustav-becker-clocks-here.10545/page-14#post-535729, let's not bother John over trifles.
Regards
Tatyana
I have an observation and I wonder how to report it so that it is appropriate and polite. I don't want to be rude
While browsing the DUZ archival materials, I found an article from mid-1877.
If I understand correctly, and unless my German misled me, it is a clock with the number 99983 sold in 1874.
I understand that it must have already existed then.
If I understand correctly - it seems to me that it may be worth taking this fact into account and correcting the JHubby table (with full respect for his work).
Please take this as an observation, and not as credibility of the table.
While browsing the DUZ archival materials, I found an article from mid-1877.
If I understand correctly, and unless my German misled me, it is a clock with the number 99983 sold in 1874.
I understand that it must have already existed then.
If I understand correctly - it seems to me that it may be worth taking this fact into account and correcting the JHubby table (with full respect for his work).
Please take this as an observation, and not as credibility of the table.
Yahagi,I have an observation and I wonder how to report it so that it is appropriate and polite. I don't want to be rude
While browsing the DUZ archival materials, I found an article from mid-1877.
If I understand correctly, and unless my German misled me, it is a clock with the number 99983 sold in 1874.
I understand that it must have already existed then.
If I understand correctly - it seems to me that it may be worth taking this fact into account and correcting the JHubby table (with full respect for his work).
Please take this as an observation, and not as credibility of the table.
View attachment 685061
If you type @ followed by the person's screen name, that person will receive a message that his or her name was mentioned in a thread.
For example, you should receive a notification when I type your screen name:
Yahagi
By typing John Hubby , John will be notified and he will hopefully read this thread.
John has always been willing to change his various findings based on new information, such as the information that you have posted. John has not responded to any threads since July, 2021. (John - I hope all is well with you!).
Regards.
No, your understanding of German is fine, you have understood everything very well. Clock serial No. 99983 must indeed have existed in 1874.
The DU members in Schweidnitz were very cross with Herr Becker, because of him selling clocks directly to the public. He had promised not to do that any more, but apparently he had, 99983 being one.
It is interesting to note that Herr Becker was given the right to reply to the accusation that three clocks, including 99983, had been sold privately. He said that 99983 had been sold to a friend for a special occasion, another one (138051) was given to the man who delivered glue to the Becker factory and the third one (141456) was sold 'by mistake in my absence' to a man who had twice been turned away and finally convinced a Becker employee to sell him a clock which he needed for a wedding present the next day and to obtain it he had even had to miss his train! [Given that DUZ article states that the question of buying directly from Becker had been discussed in a bar by some people, the innkeeper saying anyone could buy and another person saying you could not, I suspect that the third clock may have been bought under false pretences!]
Whether the anger of the DU members in Schweidnitz was reduced by this I don't know, because the newspaper cutting ends before we can read their reaction.
It is a nice insight into little disputes in the industry.
JTD
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Thank you, Yahagi and JTD. The DUZ article is both very interesting and very amusing!
I find it interesting that the wholesalers / retailers were angry that three clocks out of thousands (I assume) did not follow the supply chain!
I guess the village bar was the equivalent to the modern day internet!
Regards.
Hi everyone! Greetings from Belarus!
I apologize in advance for my English
I'd like to know any info about my parents' GB wall clock.
1. There's no serial number
2. The pendulum number is P48
3. Rod gong
4. There is a "R" and "O" stamped on the back plate. What do these letters mean?
I would appreciate ANY information. Thanks in advance!
I apologize in advance for my English
I'd like to know any info about my parents' GB wall clock.
1. There's no serial number
2. The pendulum number is P48
3. Rod gong
4. There is a "R" and "O" stamped on the back plate. What do these letters mean?
I would appreciate ANY information. Thanks in advance!
Welcome to the message board, Anna! Based upon the back plate logo, I would estimate that the clock was built between 1914 and 1934 which is during the last 15 years or so that Gustav Becker was in business. In 1930, the company was bought by Junghans. The P48 is the length of the pendulum in centimeters. The "R" is for Reschen which indicates it is rack strike. However, there hasn't been any clear indication what the "O" stands for.
Do you know any history of the clock before your family owned it?
Kurt
Do you know any history of the clock before your family owned it?
Kurt
Thanks, Kurt! Appreciate your quick response.
Just got some more photos from my dad. Please, see the attached.
We know nothing.... My grandfather swapped his shelf clock with his friend to this one in 1975, that's all what we know. We've no idea how the clock came to Belarus and when, unfortunately.
Maybe that's it. I'm not sure whether there should be a letter or figure
It is more likely a letter O as in that position other letters were found. But whether it is an "oh" or a zero, the meaning of that stamp has not been determined.
Kurt
Kurt
Welcome to the message board! The serial number indicates that the movement was likely made in late 1898. Do you have pictures of the clock and case before teardown?
Kurt
Kurt
Hi - new member and poster here, and very new to the world of old clocks as well. This is a "Gloria" clock that I just purchased this month. From what I've been able to find out through this group is that the symbol on the back likely dates it to between 1894 and 1903. It keeps time well now, except for the strike (half, and hour) does not work. It looks like the hammer is a bit misaligned. Hoping that is an easy fix. I noticed it has a red string that hangs down inside the case that is seemingly fastened to the strike mechanism. If anyone has thoughts on this or on the clock generally, anything you know would be appreciated. Thank you!
Welcome to the forum.
Your clock is not a Gloria clock.
Gloria is a trademark of Gustav Becker and is the name of the gong contained in your clock.
Your clock is most likely a Gustav Becker. Pictures of the back of the movement will be of great help to confirm and also to date the clock.
Regards.
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