Post Your Gustav Becker Clocks Here

Discussion in 'General Clock Discussions' started by Mike306p/Ansoniaman, Jul 5, 2006.

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  1. Thomas Niemeyer

    Thomas Niemeyer New Member

    Sep 15, 2020
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    My Gustav Becker wall clock is from 1874 according to the movement number. No trade marks, but clearly a Gustav Becker. I don't know whether the case is the original one - same age as the movement? I am looking for the correct style of bottom ornaments and crown as both are missing. Can anyone help with information?

    DSCN9572 Reg. 500pix, vertical.jpg G.B. open door, DSCN9569.jpg DSCN9776, D.jpg DSCN9774, B.jpg
     
  2. Raymond Rice

    Raymond Rice Registered User
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    Thanks to John Hubby and Royce for the confirmation.
    Ray Rice
     
  3. T.Cu

    T.Cu Registered User

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    Hello, I have been wanting to date my Gustav Becker clock. It does not have serial numbers, as some do, but only the identification shown in the photos. I love your site and will be visiting now that I have joined up. (But I do have to learn how to navigate it better.)



    IMG_3307imp.jpg image.jpeg image.png IMG_7522.JPG image.jpeg image.jpeg image.png image.png image.jpeg
     
  4. T.Cu

    T.Cu Registered User

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    Oops, I didn't realize the photos would be so hard to see, the combination of letters and numbers on the left of the movement in the picture Are an "H" and below it a "P 48". On the right there is a "k" or some similar letter.
    There are also some maker's marks up above which I don't think relate to the age of the clock (?)
    Thanks in advance!
     
  5. Royce

    Royce Registered User
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    According to the extensive research by John Hubby, the GB trademark on your clock was used between 1914 - 1934. That possibly can be narrowed down by the fact that your movement does not have a serial number. John’s research indicated that between 1926 - 1932, the Braunau factory was used to assemble non-serial numbered clocks for GB.
     
  6. T.Cu

    T.Cu Registered User

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    Hi Royce, Thank you for your response. I had seen some of John Hubby's posts but haven't learned my way around the site yet. (The photographs thing, obviously.) I have a Mac not a PC so the "sticky" about posting photos doesn't seem to apply to me.
    The seller of my clock thought it was from somewhere around 1900, but sometimes that's just a guess, and sometimes they want things to be older than they are.
    I was thinking that the letters/numbers combination might have served the same function as the "real" serial numbers but maybe not. Maybe if I moved the post to Mr Hubby's thread? Again, Thanks, Tim
     
  7. JTD

    JTD Registered User

    Sep 27, 2005
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    Please don't start a separate thread for the same clock and question - it becomes very confusing.

    Your photogrtaphs have come through very nicely.

    JTD
     
  8. Steven Thornberry

    Steven Thornberry User Administrator
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    At Tim's request, I have merged his thread with the omnibus Becker thread.
     
  9. Sergio Vasquez

    Sergio Vasquez Registered User

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    Congrats Tim. It is a very nice clock.

    Sergio
     
  10. T.Cu

    T.Cu Registered User

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    Thanks Sergio, I have been reading the great Becker thread. And from that I have learned that my clock has a pendulum length of 48cm, which is what is meant by the "P-48", and that the "H" means the clock has lantern pinions.

    My stamped trademark does have the little "c" in it, as shown in the 1909-1933 one on the chart.

    And the movement does have the open plates.

    And it does have the little trapezoidal "holster" for the pendulum to ride in.

    I haven't seen anything yet about the "k" on the right side of the rear plate, across from the H and P-48, nor have I seen anything yet about the "c 26" on the front plate at the top right.

    As to the case, the crown is new, from a group in Poland who specializes in this sort of thing, nice people and fun to deal with. And very reasonable. I got to choose which of the "appropriate" crowns for this model I wanted to use. They made up a computer picture with my very clock and four different crowns on it. Pretty cool.

    Although these clocks didn't seem to have "returns" on the crowns, I made some because I like the look better, and they can always be removed.

    So that's what I have gotten so far in addition to Royce's kind estimates. I will continue to read the Becker thread for more clues. T.cu/Tim
     
  11. Sergio Vasquez

    Sergio Vasquez Registered User

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    Wow, what a wonderful story that you know about your clock.

    I heard about that polish group that build crowns for the clocks. As you can see in my avatar, my clock hasn't its crown. I made a model based on pics of similar models I found in the web and now I have to send it somewhere to make it. Is it possible that you send me an address (web page or email address) to contact them?

    I inherited this clock from my grandfather and I will put a crown again, as the original model was.

    Regards,
     
  12. T.Cu

    T.Cu Registered User

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    Ok, I will try to send a personal email to you. I don't know whether the site would like me to post it. Tim
     
  13. Thomas Niemeyer

    Thomas Niemeyer New Member

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    I did find some information about the outer wooden parts ( now missing ). With all the information / queries on movement age, I wonder why there are no factory logos on some clock movements. I did not realize that there are so many different ones. ( Mine is without logo but I got the serial number ) Thanks for all the information in the meantime,Thomas
     
  14. T.Cu

    T.Cu Registered User

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    Hi, Here's a follow-up post to my first ones. I read all the sixty five pages of the great Becker thread, and have come to some tentative conclusions about my clock, and wonder if you all agree or not. I have posted some additional photos as I am interested in some opinions about the "style" of the case, whether altdeutsche, art nouveau or a mixture of them, or?

    But here is my clock described:

    It is spring driven, and It has no serial number and no Silesia stamp, and no oval or circle stamps. The clock seems to be a fourteen day runner, with stiff springs.

    It has a stamped GB anchor trademark that does have the little "c" or half moon in it, as shown in the 1909-1933 one on the chart.

    The movement does have the open plates (Amerikaner style), and it does have the little trapezoidal "holster" for the pendulum leader end to ride in.

    It has no DRP imprint (so post 1907?). I forgot to look to see if it has a strip pallet.

    It has a "Gloria" gong (1902-1932?).

    It has an "H" on the left rear plate (for lantern pinions/(hohltreiben, so after 1914?). And under that, a "P-48", for the centimeters of leader from suspension spring to the end of the bob. (So possibly after 1926?)

    Then across the plate on the right side of the clock there's a small "k". (I don't believe the meaning of letters in this position is known yet.)

    But the kicker seems to be that somewhere later on in this thread, John Hubby found that the stamps on the upper right front plate, that I do have, were indeed date stamps. On the top of the front plate is a "c26" stamped vertically. And so the meaning of this seems to be that the clock (or movement at least) was made in March of 1926. And the company only used this formulation of letter and number for a couple years before switching to a different system.

    I thought I saw it mentioned that this type of case was not much used after the war, but these findings seem to point to a later time of build.

    This case has the hinged "dust cover" (does anyone remember the German word for this?) on the lower part of the case covering the pendulum bob, so its "swinging" is only "semi" free I guess. But I think it is still called a "free swinger". It isn't really a "balcony", is it? Seems odd to me that mine has the wood seat board but some earlier (Silesia) models have the steel ones.

    The wood case has some markings too. There is a 7790 stamped or burned into both the back and the top. This number is also handwritten on the top right of the back (case model number?).

    There are some penciled initials I can't read also on the top right of the back (quality control? Ownership?).

    There are some ghastly big monograms carved into the back and top, which look like ownership marks to me.

    And this is interesting, there was one "extra" hole in the back of the case. This hole went directly through the back of the case and lined up with a hole in the back of the head of the gong. After manufacture they probably put a screw, bolt, or even dowel through there to prevent the head of the gong from waving around too much during transport of the newly finished clock. I conjecture.

    I would love to hear more from you all, now that there is more description provided about this clock.

    s-l1600 (1).jpg s-l1600 (2).jpg IMG_7519imp.jpg IMG_7522.JPG IMG_7526imp.jpg IMG_7550.JPG IMG_2745.JPG IMG_7629.JPG IMG_7633.JPG
     
  15. Tatyana

    Tatyana Registered User

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    Hi, Tim!

    The patent 145103 for this type of case was issued in 1902.
    загруженное (17).png

    In the 1912 catalog, there are three models similar to your case: 1140, 1141, 1142.

    Becker-1140.jpg
    BR, Tatyana
     
  16. T.Cu

    T.Cu Registered User

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    Wow Tatyana, The lower treatment of that case in the picture is exactly like mine was! And thanks for the patent information too! I am having lots of fun with my "freischwingerurhen" with its "pendelhaus" and will keep both files with my clock. I am keeping records on all the clocks I have, it's a really fun hobby.
    (The photos I sent in my last post are what the clock looked like when I bought it, and above in my first post is what it looks like now, after I bought a crown for it.)
    I am so happy to get all your responses, thanks! Tim
     
  17. T.Cu

    T.Cu Registered User

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    ..Curious about the word that looks like "glasverschlus"? on the drawing...
     
  18. KurtinSA

    KurtinSA Registered User
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    Seems to translate to glass cover or closure. Essentially means what it says in English.

    Kurt
     
  19. new2clocks

    new2clocks Registered User
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    I believe it means "glass enclosure" or something to that effect.

    One of our German speakers can confirm or correct.

    Regards.

    I see Kurt and I were typing at the same time.
     
  20. Sergio Vasquez

    Sergio Vasquez Registered User

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    Hi Tim

    Just a few comments. Dust cover is Staubschutz in German, so probably this is what you mean.

    Regarding the free swinger (Freischwinger), I read at a German blog of old clocks, that a clock like this strictly doesn't have a box with a glass cover for the lens. Based on this, your clock isn't a free swinger.

    Regarding the DRP (Deutsches Reichspatent), from 1898 appears this acronym in the clocks.

    Sergio
     
  21. T.Cu

    T.Cu Registered User

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    Hi Again, Here's a closeup of what Tatyana sent today. This is the word I am not sure about, using a different alphabet than the one with which I am familiar. I get the "mit" part (ha ha) and the "glass" part maybe. It is probably like what Kurt and new2 are saying: Enclosure, cover.
    And Sergio, Yes I have seen that too, that the clock would not, strictly speaking, be a "free" swinger. But it's not a "balcony" style either. So I am settling for "freischwinger" for now. :)

    10071B8B-9DF2-48A9-A0C5-BA868BBEC0A7.jpeg
     
  22. new2clocks

    new2clocks Registered User
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    Whatever you wish to call it, you have a very nice clock!:)

    Regards.
     
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  23. glenhead

    glenhead Registered User
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    I failed to wind my GB serpentine so it ran down. Then bonked the movement when I wound it. While the decoupling of the pendulum from the movement was annoying, it was the first time since I got the clock over five years ago that I was able to get pictures of the movement. :)

    I'm hoping one of you can do your magic and tell me a bit more detail about what I have. I *think* I know some stuff about it, but would really appreciate Truth, ya know?

    The movement serial number is 1288293. Please pardon the angle on the picture of the case - the flash from straight on blows the picture. I didn't take any shots of the mounting brackets or anything else, so if you need that to nail it down I can pull it down and apart again.

    Thanks for anything you can tell me.

    Glen

    gb_serp_mvt01.jpg gb_serp_case01.jpg
     
  24. Royce

    Royce Registered User
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    As you may already know, based on the research by John Hubby, your clock was manufactured in 1897.
    1897: 1265001 1898: 1316001
    Nice Clock!!
    Royce
     
  25. T.Cu

    T.Cu Registered User

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    Thanks!
     
  26. KurtinSA

    KurtinSA Registered User
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    Google "German double s".

    Kurt
     
  27. T.Cu

    T.Cu Registered User

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  28. JimmyOz

    JimmyOz Registered User

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    I may be wrong, however when the pendulum is boxed like this is it not called a 'Berliner'?
     
  29. T.Cu

    T.Cu Registered User

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    Hi Jimmy, It's funny you mention that as I I thought I read somewhere a couple years ago that these clocks were also called "Berliners". But I asked around here and there and never could find out anything more about the term or how it is used.
    But you certainly might be right, that would be great to know. I will try to find out more about that name for them online.
    Thanks for the great idea, Tim
     
  30. JimmyOz

    JimmyOz Registered User

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    Hi T.Cu,
    My thoughts are that maybe the name Breliner was invented to differentiate it from a Freeswinger a long time ago and stuck. I am sure the guys on here would know if it was cataloged as a Berliner and Tatyana's photos say Freeswinger, therefore a Freeswinger and maybe the nickname of this 'style' is a Berliner?
     
  31. Steven Thornberry

    Steven Thornberry User Administrator
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    On the use of Berliner for Freischwinger, Doug Stevenson had this to say some years ago. Possible date
     
  32. T.Cu

    T.Cu Registered User

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    Hi Steven, That is fascinating, as it is exactly the kind of thing I have found. The sellers of clocks and describers of clocks online use the term without explaining it really, and it is hard to figure out anything substantive about the term. The best thing so far is what you just sent that Zep wrote 8/16/08:

    But someone on this Clocks section of the MB used the term in connection with a, er, Freischwingerish clock with a glassed in bit below. And sure enough, Ortenburger uses the term in his volume on page (just a sec) 248. His caption:

    "Freeswinger style made with a running duration of three weeks. Walnut stain. Pendulum is enclosed by a glass door. Also referred to as a "Berliner" Unstamped movement runs 14 days . Circa 1885".

    I'd understood that to mean that some people (?) call this type of Freischwinger a Berliner. But suppose it could be understood to mean that it's another term for a Freischwinger. And I've noted that some American clock websites do show "Freeswingers" and "Berliner" interchangeably.


    I am unfamiliar with Ortenburger, I'll look him up. I am indebted to you all for the closest ideas yet. :) Tim
     
  33. T.Cu

    T.Cu Registered User

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    ... and, as Zep said later in the same post,

    I've not located "Berliner" in connection with a Freischwinger type in any German lexicon, or for that matter in the two-volume Mauch & Mauch German/English English/German horological lexicon. But then again, it could be.

    So if it isn't (commonly) called that in German, maybe it's just an English language description. Odd, but possible.
     
  34. new2clocks

    new2clocks Registered User
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    In horology, there appears to be several names for everything.:)

    Regards.
     
  35. T.Cu

    T.Cu Registered User

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    New2clocks- Ha ha well that's fine with me!
    Sergio sent me a German language clock listing site and the freischwinger type clocks that have the pendelhaus and/or the glasverschluss have been described there, so far, as freischwingers not as Berliners.
    (But these types have also been described there as "regulators", which seem to me to be a different sort of thing, a different look, so maybe those describing the clocks on that site are not all that up on clock things?)
    I will keep my eyes open regarding that subject and report back if I find anything interesting. Tim
     
  36. new2clocks

    new2clocks Registered User
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    The term regulator has grown over the years to describe anything under the sun that tells time.:)

    Among the various nuances that make a regulator a regulator, the clock must be weight driven, which most. if not all free swingers, are not - they are spring driven (at least the free swingers I have seen).

    Regards.
     
  37. T.Cu

    T.Cu Registered User

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    Interesting, I hadn't thought of those points, but was going only on the appearance of a "Vienna Regulator" style and size/shape of case. But I am interested to hear that the Regulator type really must be weight driven. Good to know.
    Also good point, the freischwinger type does seem to always be spring driven. .. Hmm Tim
     
  38. Sergio Vasquez

    Sergio Vasquez Registered User

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    Hi Tim

    I read at a German blog that, a regulator must be a clock that has an indicator for the seconds in the same dial, located below number 12, as I have seen in some Vienna clocks. There was an important discussion on this.

    But in the other hand, I have seen in some GB catalogues, that they are announcing regulators for models that don't have this seconds indicator and are from the Jugenstil style.

    Regarding the Freischwingers, I'm now a little bit confused because for my understanding this type of clock doesn't have a cover for the pendulum (Glassverschluss or Pendelhaus), but there are some models that have this part to cover the lens and there are free swingers. It is a very interesting point by the way.

    Sergio
     
  39. new2clocks

    new2clocks Registered User
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    The definition of a regulator depends on who is providing the definition:). If you ask 10 highly regarded horologists, you will probably get ten different answers.

    Most would probably say that a regulator needs to be weight driven, with a deadbeat escapement. Others would add time only, seconds beat, maintaining power and some would say a compensating pendulum.

    Suffice it to say that 90% (?) of the regulators we see on these forums are not regulators.

    Regards.
     
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  40. T.Cu

    T.Cu Registered User

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    Thanks New2..
    Hi Sergio- I am getting the impression that these terms are somewhat informal. So one clock might be a "pure" and "uncomplicated" "free swinger", but another clock might be, in addition to looking and acting like a freeswinger, a "Berliner style" freeswinger. Because it has the pendelhaus, glass, etc..
    (And the local nomenclature might also just be be different from place to place, like the point made by Zep about them being called something different in parts of Poland.)
    But I am just guessing. What I think I have learned is that my clock is a "Berliner style free swinger". Which, after all, seems to describe it most clearly? Tim
     
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  41. TimWK

    TimWK Registered User

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    My newest Becker is from an estate sale. It looked like the previous owner decided to pick up the entire clock from the top finial and dunk it into a 55 gal. can of varnish and then hung it up to dry. There were a lot of runs and a lot of buildup in certain areas, but it’s clean now.

    The movement serial # is: 1,923.688 and is a P64, made in 1906 I think. It is 61" tall and runs perfect and is quite accurate.

    As found.JPG IMG_0442.JPG IMG_0453.JPG IMG_0456.JPG IMG_0458.JPG As found suspension spring.JPG IMG_0471.JPG
     
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  42. T.Cu

    T.Cu Registered User

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    Wow! What a beautiful clock! Well worth your while!
     
  43. petrus@ZA

    petrus@ZA Registered User

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    Hi Guys.

    This is my 1 beauty..... I inherited it from my dad a couple of years ago, grew up with it gonning in the house everyday and warning my mom late nights what time i got home! I am so lucky to have this by me. Any one with some assistance on some dates on it?

    I also have an Ansonia mantle or table top clock that I can post here if you guys like.

    Recently also acquired a schmekenbecker cuckoo that i just love. Not as old but still a beaut..... this seems to be becoming an addiction like with tattoos, once you get one its never enough....

    20201027_163508.jpg 20201027_163518.jpg 20201027_163524.jpg 20201027_163537.jpg 20201027_163550.jpg 20201027_163614.jpg 20201027_163618.jpg 20201027_163646.jpg 20201027_163854.jpg 20201027_163900.jpg 20201027_165019.jpg
     
  44. KurtinSA

    KurtinSA Registered User
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    Welcome to the message board! Nice to have something that stays in the family. Since there's no serial number, as Gustav Becker did for a period, we only have the back plate logo to go on. From what John Hubby has posted in the past, this logo seems to have been used at both the Freiburg facility as well as the Braunau facility...I see little difference in them. That said, the best we can probably do is to say that the logo was used from about 1906 to 1925. So that would be the date range of the clock. Maybe someone else could narrow things down based up on the gong base plate.

    Kurt
     
  45. petrus@ZA

    petrus@ZA Registered User

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    Thank you very much Kurt, this was the same ballpark that I guessed it to be from what i have researched so far...

    I am truly grateful that I have it and it has been passed down to me, as far as my father can remember he bought it from a pawn shop somewhere in the early '70's. Him and his brother in law bought similar ones at the same shop on the same day.

    I would love to get the side piece restored and to find out what top piece actually goes with it as this was also missing when I got it. I took it into a shop to repair it for me as it was not working at that stage and the owner of the shop happen to have this horse lying around.
     
  46. KurtinSA

    KurtinSA Registered User
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    Maybe others will have some ideas of the missing pieces. If you have the time, look through all the Becker clocks in this thread...you might find some ideas.

    Do you know the fate of the clock your uncle-in-law purchased?

    And no thanks on starting down the tattoo path! :(

    Kurt
     
  47. Sergio Vasquez

    Sergio Vasquez Registered User

    Oct 21, 2018
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    Puerto Varas, Chile
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    Hi Petrus

    It is a very nice clock. Been inherited makes it more valuable. It would be difficult to precise any date on it. It has a Silesia movement, without serial numbers. My clock has the same movement, Silesia - P42.

    There are versions that these clocks were made in Freiburg, where they didn't include a serial number. There are some clocks that were built on Branau and don't a serial number that can be related to a large investigation made by John Hubby.

    Anyway, let's wait at the experts than can share more inopfrmation on this.

    Sergio
     
  48. petrus@ZA

    petrus@ZA Registered User

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    #3248 petrus@ZA, Oct 28, 2020 at 1:04 AM
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2020 at 1:22 AM
    Hi Kurt

    Yes it would seem that that one got inherited by his daughter. I am still trying to get some info from her regarding it. Hopefully it is also still in one piece and working.
     
  49. petrus@ZA

    petrus@ZA Registered User

    Tuesday
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    Hi Sergio.

    Thank you for the info, that is the same that I have gathered so far and that is what has made it difficult to date. It is not a necessity to date it but yes it would be nice. And I am never in my life planning on selling it so not even interested in a value on it, for me it means so much more than the value!
     
  50. petrus@ZA

    petrus@ZA Registered User

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    Is there a thread where I can post my Ansonia as well for some info or shall I just post it here?
     

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