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Well, first thing to do here is to see who actually made the movement. The logo is for Uhrenfabrik Concordia (UCEG = Uhrenfabrik Concordia Eingetragnene Genossenschaft), one of the "children" companies of GB in Freiburg that was started by ex-employees of Gustav Becker and operated from mid-1881 to June 22 1899 when it and four other companies were merged with GB. Based on the serial number this movement was made in 1889 using my Concordia database info for dating. Here is a better photo of the actual logo:Here is a Gustav Becker regulator from the latest Tom Harris auction. It is my first Gustav Becker. I like Black Forest type cases, which is why I bought this particular clock although it was not made in the "Black Forest" region. The movement is marked with S/N 48314 which according to Karl Kochmann's book would place it circa 1871 or 1872. See photos. My question is this: Was this a "one-off" design or was it one of many similar hunter theme organic designs made by GB? Information from that time period is not available in the NAWCC library. The logo on the back plate is very weak but clearly implies Freiburg, Silesia.
Vin, thanks for posting. I just realized this is the same clock for which the meaning of what was inscribed on the plaque was being discussed. Two very important things regarding dating can be found with your clock. First is that it could not have been made later than April 1, 1926 (1.4.1926) when it was presented, nor could it have been made before May 1925. The reason it could not have been made earlier is that GB changed their logos and information stamped on their "Amerikaner" style movements in that month, and your movement has the exact info they used after that date. The "H" on the back of the movement is for "Hohltreiben" which is German for lantern pinions, and the fancy GB anchor logo is missing the word "SILESIA" stamped below the anchor. That stamping was discontinued in the May 1925 changeover.hello again, is this GB clock missing a crown? my father in germany just send this to me by package, thats why i dont know if it is missing or not, hope you can give some screenshots of possible crown for this model... thanks
ps: is this gb clock real?
john, thanks for that informative reply. will try to look for that characters located in upper right corner of the front plate and will search in google again for the right crown.thanks again for you time ☺Vin, thanks for posting. I just realized this is the same clock for which the meaning of what was inscribed on the plaque was being discussed. Two very important things regarding dating can be found with your clock. First is that it could not have been made later than April 1, 1926 (1.4.1926) when it was presented, nor could it have been made before May 1925. The reason it could not have been made earlier is that GB changed their logos and information stamped on their "Amerikaner" style movements in that month, and your movement has the exact info they used after that date. The "H" on the back of the movement is for "Hohltreiben" which is German for lantern pinions, and the fancy GB anchor logo is missing the word "SILESIA" stamped below the anchor. That stamping was discontinued in the May 1925 changeover.
Thus, your clock must have been made between May 1925 and probably no later than January of 1926 allowing for transit from the factory to the retailer, etc. Actually, there may be a manufacturing date stamped on the movement. IF there it will be located at the upper right corner of the movement FRONT plate, so to see it you will have to remove the dial or use a dentist mirror with a strong light to see what is on the front of the movement in that position. It will likely be a number and letter combination, such as "k 25" which would indicate November 1925.
The case style looks very similar to GB box clocks of the 1920s, there likely would have been a small crown that fit into a slot cut in the top front molding of the case, or dowel holes in the same location. I could not find the exact case design in the 1924 or 1926 GB catalogs but that is not unusual since GB didn't publish every single model they made in any given catalog.
Waqar, welcome to the NAWCC Message Board! Thanks for posting your inquiry and the photos of your GB movement. Based on the stampings and the logo, this one was made after May 1925 and before the end of 1932. If you can look at the front of the movement as I mentioned above to Vin, you may find a manufacturing date stamp at the upper right corner of the front plate. That would confirm the actual date it was made. Also, if you could post photos of the case of your clock from the front that would help to identify when it was made based on the design of the case.hi John as per your information the logo on my machine looks like 1914-1934, but still i am not sure as there are three similar looking logos on your description post,
and i could not find any serial number as well it says only P 18, H.
Gintaras, thanks for posting the photos of your GB clock. Kurt's dating is correct, and you have a very attractive architectural style Vienna regulator case. It is a little unusual to find oak cases but they do show up more with this style than with other designs.Sharing my 2 weight Gustav Becker clock. Simple case but really elegant I think that year of production is 1906?
Well, first thing to do here is to see who actually made the movement. The logo is for Uhrenfabrik Concordia (UCEG = Uhrenfabrik Concordia Eingetragnene Genossenschaft), one of the "children" companies of GB in Freiburg that was started by ex-employees of Gustav Becker and operated from mid-1881 to June 22 1899 when it and four other companies were merged with GB. Based on the serial number this movement was made in 1889 using my Concordia database info for dating. Here is a better photo of the actual logo:
View attachment 409510 So, what you have is a marriage, although the only part of it that seems "not" to be by Concordia is the dial, which has a much later (c. 1907) GB dial logo. The hands are correct for Concordia although it appears the "tail" of the minute hand has been broken off. Here is one that is complete; Concordia used this distinctive design for most of their clocks:
View attachment 409511
Your case is likely one that was made in the Black Forest and for which many traders, dealers, etc., would buy the cases and then buy complete movements with dials, weights, and pendulum and install those in the cases. GB did offer this type of case as well, there were many illustrated in some of their sale catalogs. They also sold "Lose Uhrwerk" (loose movements) for such purpose but all of them were stamped clearly with a GB logo and serial number. Actually most of the German makers did the same, some such as Carl Werner made this a major part of their business, supplying movements with or without the dials, pendulum, and weights to anyone who would buy them. They even stamped the purchaser's own logo on many of them.
It's unfortunate that the clock was offered as a genuine GB, based solely (I presume) on the dial logo and without bothering to do research on the movement logo. Even so it's an interesting clock.
If I were to translate "gewidmet von," I would say "dedicated (or given) by." "Abteilung Stade" may refer a district in Lower Saxony, part of the Hamburg metropolitan area.Vin I think it translates as "Dedicated to friends of the town department" . I believe you have misread "arteilung" it should be read as "abteilung". I any case you should wait for a German speaker to confirm the translation.
Yea, you're right. Thanks to John Hubby's files. When I bought this I was wondering what to do about the dial. But after I cleaned the front door glass, it looks a little better! According to that sales slip it was sold in Chicago in 1945 for $25. Probably hasn't been cleaned since!The date would more like the latter part of 1918.
Dave, thanks for the info and posting the photos of your GB clock. Kurt posted the correct date, which some say isn't probable due to the war. However, from my data it appears that GB didn't completely shut down their production of clocks for the civilian market during the war except for their 400-Day clocks that stopped about mid-1916 and didn't resume until 2nd half 1919. Westminster clocks were made right through the war and even exported to the U.S. and England. Your clock in particular was made for the Kuehl Clock Co. of Chicago, who also kept offices open in Germany right through the war.Here is my first and only Gustav Becker Beehive. She's old, dirty and needs a little love. But, I just unpacked it, and so far I'm pleased. Re-hung the pendulum, set it out on the dining room table and it immediately starting working. Sounds so quiet, sound reminds me more of a pocket watch than a clock.
Anyway, here's the pictures from the listing. Couldn't tell what the serial number was until I opened it. 2345078. Would that put it around 1924 - 1925?
Got this beautiful GB clock today, sharing information. Made in 1896 (thank's to John's table) I guess. I would say that design is unusual for Gustav Becker, never saw something similar before.
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Piotr, thank's for your finding. Such case design and colors are unusual for me also having in mind 1896 y of movement production. Thought there are no signs of previous holes for movement bracket in the case... I know you are expert of Vienna regulators, can you look at my other post regarding Germania clock?Case (and probably dial, weights and pendulum bob) and the movement are not a set IMO. Case is about 20 years younger.
Gintaras, thanks very much for posting the photos of your clock. The movement definitely made in early 1896 based on my database info, however I agree with Piotr that the case is unlikely to be as old as the clock. While very well made, I think it is a custom design that was made several years later than the movement (and the dial, weights and pendulum which I believe are original with the movement). In looking at the detail of construction of the door, I don't recall seeing any GB that had the fine construction seen here, and unusually it appears not to have bevel glass which would have been the norm for such a design especially in the early 20th century from about 1905 through 1925 when similar cases were made at the GB Braunau factory.Hello all,
Got this beautiful GB clock today, sharing information. Made in 1896 (thank's to John's table) I guess. I would say that design is unusual for Gustav Becker, never saw something similar before.
JH COMMENT: As I mentioned in your earlier post, this clock could have been made from as early 1914 to as late as 1923 based on the GB anchor logo design on the dial. Now taking a closer look at the case, my judgement is later than earlier, probably in the early 1920s say 1920-23. The 1924 catalog has a number of similar designs but not the exact model, these are more representative of the case style of your clock that the ones found in the GB 1912 catalog that are not quite as elaborate as the ones made after WWI. Without any other clue this is the best we can do with this clock. Check to see if there is any writing or stamps on the back of the case, or evidence of a paper label having been there at some point. Clocks made after WWI almost all had a paper GB label on the back printed in red and black ink with yellow or orange highlights, and the design of these labels can be sorted into particular years.Hi,
Here are my 3 Gustav Becker clocks I currently have, 1 mantle and 2 wall.
I'll start with the wall clocks, firstly one i have recently posted in the new acquisitions section. John Hubby has already commented with some information in that thread. I'll repeat what I said about it so its in the correct thread. Bought a few weeks ago off eBay, marked with the anchor and crown and Silesia. I can't see a serial number anywhere on it. Is in good condition, does have some wood worm which I will be treating for to be safe. 2 finials have been replaced, the movement has been cleaned as seen in photos (not by me) looks like the finish has been removed from it. A new hammer also looks like its been put on. Also missing the beat scale.
JH COMMENT: This clock is older than your first one by as much as 3 years but would have been made from about mid-1911 to early 1914, again based on the GB anchor logo on the dial. It is quite a mess right now but I have no doubt you will get it up and running before too long and also get the case reassembled and finished properly. Your first clock above and this one have the same basic movement with solid cut pinions. One thing I may have overlooked mentioning in my earlier response is that you will "not" find serial numbers on any of this particular design. There were some movements made for the Braunau factory that do have Braunau serial numbers, however they all have solid back plates and adjustable pallet anchors.Secondly, another one I got off eBay. This is a project to restore, the case and the movement. You can see its mostly in bits, needs gluing back together, it has 3 new pillars for the door frame, 2 new finials, also looks like the top and bottom are new to me as well given the colour and condition. I only noticed that when I got it back home. Need to find a replacement top with eagle etc or something else. Movement is stamped with anchor and crown and Silesia that's just visible under the grime. This needs a good clean as it looks like it's been collecting dust for a long time! Also need to get some glass cut for the front door. Can't see a serial number with this one either. So a good project to do here. Any info in this is appreciated as i'd like to know more about it.
Maybe next time i'll get one that isn't in as many bits!
JH COMMENT: This clock is a very nice Westminster chime bracket clock made in second half 1926 based on the serial number. It is Model No. 431 as illustrated in the 1924 and later GB sale catalogs Here is a scan of the catalog illustration; thanks to member Victor Tang for his publishing this catalog:Lastly a mantle clock given to me by a grandparent. It's in fairly good condition. Has a Westminster chime, adjustment for pendulum on dial to regulate. The hands have been replaced at some point with the ones you see in the photo. i don't like them at all and need to find some that are more suiting. Photo shows the GB mark on the back plate. The serial number is also at the bottom and says 939.
Thanks again for posting, you have acquired some interesting clocks!That's all for now. I do plan on acquiring another wall clock as I do love them, maybe a weighted one. Any extra info is much appreciated.
Many thanks for your reply and information. I don't remember seeing any writing or stamps on the first one. I'll have another look at some point.
Yeah, that's a current work in progress. Got to get some glass made for the door and a crown to finish. I think the pendulum may not be correct for this one. The fitting at the top of it is more of a hook than what would go in the wedge shaped pendulum leader. I've also had it at the bottom of the thread and it still runs fast. The fitting does screw off so could be replaced but it does slot it to make do. On the movement it says P64 and this one is shorter than that, if i'm right that does correspond to pendulum length. I've forgot the measurement now. Maybe it needs a longer rod or is the bob not the correct type. I have seen many with a brass bob that looks smaller than the one I have and without the design on mine. Not sure on this.
Thank you for the catalogue page, that will be very useful for finding the correct hands and is nice to have hold of.
Again thanks for the information, much appreciated.
I have this Gustav Becker Hall Clock
Nice clock! Someone will be along to help with positioning the hammer. The serial number dates to the first quarter of 1894. Not sure about the 1834 unless you're slightly misreading the number...could it be 1894 instead?
Dave, thanks for posting. Kurt provided the correct dating for your clock. If you could post a photo of the case and dial we may be able to help you find a suitable pediment (crown).Trying to date this Box clock Westminster GB. Serial no. 755
Having a little trouble picking out the right crown!
Skinnb1, thanks for posting your inquiry and the photos of your GB westminster chime clock. I apologize for the slow response, wasn't available most of February. Based on the movement serial number, your clock was made about July-August 1925, shortly after GB changed their serial numbering system to use separate number series for at least four different clock types.Gustav Becker Westminster chime mantel clock
Serial 2452686 with GB mark but no factory or gold medal stamp
It also has 148 and P14 and the letter M inscribed.
The rear door is missing/ broken.
I believe (from other information on this site about serial numbers) that it dates from 1923. I don't know what the other inscriptions mean.
Liam, thanks for posting all this information and the photos of your GB Vienna style regulator. Kurt provided the correct age of your clock based on the serial number. The 1834 number on the back of the dial could be many things, such as the clock model number, a repair mark, or something else. It certainly could not be a date. You have done a lot of good work on the case, good to see.Hi,
I recently won this GB at auction bidding online. Have posted in the new acquisitions about it but posting here with more info and photos, also for some information about it. Case is in good condition, only some small bits missing from the crown, some bits broken from the horse. Case had some repairs that were not very good, I dismantled what needed repairing and put the case back together correctly as the top was not joined to the case and an expanding foam repair that was not good had been done to the joints of the sides at the top. These were rectified and its all together now. All parts look original to me and have age, or at least have not been replaced too recently. I did have to put new door hooks and one eye on, also both stabilisers. Also put the glass into the door frame correctly and sorted that as that has been repaired at some point with metal joining plates but some random nails sticking out of the frame to hold the glass in place at the top. Apart from that the rest of the case just has general age and wear.
The movement looks in good condition, which I was surprised about, I was expecting it to turn up filthy, given most other clocks I've bought had dirty movements. I guess it has been cleaned within the last few years or so. Seems to work properly, have it ticking away now. Did have an issue with something sticking or something i think after warning to strike and thus it stops ticking. Its done the striking now though and I've set it back off and can keep on eye on it properly now to see if there is a problem or maybe I did something. The gong hammer doesn't seem to go behind the pendulum to strike the coil. I've lifted it as sliding movement onto bracket but it doesn't seem to be bent in the correct position. So I've left the movement forward a little for now. There's also a thin piece of wire bent under the hammer, which i assume prevents the hammer bouncing to much, seems to damped the hammer at each strike. Weights and pendulum are also in good condition and have been cleaned. Dial and beat plate had a clean and the gong/movement bracket had a good scrub to remove lots of dirt and what looked like oxidation.
Attached some photos of movement and case and marking. Going by the stamps and from the image on the first page its from between 1875-1896. Serial number is 1109865. Medaille D'or and Freiburg in SCHL. logos present. There was also a black stamp on the back of the case, It was oval in shape with Gustav Becker in the middle and the second word that was around the top was Fabrik. It has two words around the bottom too. I forgot to photograph this and its all up on the wall now so will do it next time i have to take movement out.
Oh also on the back of the dial the number 1834 are scratched in, looking like a year. Not sure what that could mean.
Any more information is appreciated and help dating. Any tips for getting the strike hammer in the correct position?
Many thanks, Liam
TonZZa, welcome to the NAWCC Message Board! Thanks for posting your inquiry and the photos of your GB clock. Regarding the serial number, many times the "1" at the beginning of a seven digit serial number is separated somewhat from the next digit and it seems there may or may not be a small dot between that digit and the next, in your case a "7". However, you may also notice there are multiple "dots" all around the serial number which in my opinion are irregularities in the back plate. In any event the correct serial number is 1714124. That dates your clock to just before mid-1903 as Kurt has posted.Here is my Gustav Becker
What is year?
and serial is
There is strange dot before seven.
Thanks John, After going back and re-reading my post, I have concluded I should be a little more specific. I was referring to the various "crowns" used in the GB logos over the years. I don't have a picture available of the case, but it's a rather plain box clock.Dave, thanks for posting. Kurt provided the correct dating for your clock. If you could post a photo of the case and dial we may be able to help you find a suitable pediment (crown).