Post Your Gustav Becker Clocks Here

Discussion in 'General Clock Discussions' started by Mike306p/Ansoniaman, Jul 5, 2006.

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  1. roughbarked

    roughbarked Registered User

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    Abteilung is correct as is your description and no, I'm not a native German speaker.
     
  2. dgmcrm

    dgmcrm Registered User
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    Here is a Gustav Becker regulator from the latest Tom Harris auction. It is my first Gustav Becker. I like Black Forest type cases, which is why I bought this particular clock although it was not made in the "Black Forest" region. The movement is marked with S/N 48314 which according to Karl Kochmann's book would place it circa 1871 or 1872. See photos. My question is this: Was this a "one-off" design or was it one of many similar hunter theme organic designs made by GB? Information from that time period is not available in the NAWCC library. The logo on the back plate is very weak but clearly implies Freiburg, Silesia.

    IMG_0170.JPG IMG_0225.JPG IMG_0227.JPG IMG_0228.JPG
     
  3. KurtinSA

    KurtinSA Registered User
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    The Kochmann dating reference has been superseded with John Hubby's date ranges...see John's post regarding this...your clock is more like 1885.

    Post Your Gustav Becker Clocks Here

    From some of the other things that John has posted, that logo is different than anything so far. I'll be interested to here what he has to say.

    Kurt
     
  4. dgmcrm

    dgmcrm Registered User
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    Thanks for your response. However, the S/N falls clearly in the 1871 range according to John's data and Kochmann's book. This S/N is 48314
     
  5. KurtinSA

    KurtinSA Registered User
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    Sorry...I guess you're right...I was reading too many zeroes into your serial number. John does say that Kochmann's data is reasonable until 1900.

    Kurt
     
  6. vin

    vin Registered User

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    hello again, is this GB clock missing a crown? my father in germany just send this to me by package, thats why i dont know if it is missing or not, hope you can give some screenshots of possible crown for this model... thanks
    ps: is this gb clock real?
     
  7. vin

    vin Registered User

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  8. John Hubby

    John Hubby Principal Administrator
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    #2808 John Hubby, Dec 5, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2017
    Well, first thing to do here is to see who actually made the movement. The logo is for Uhrenfabrik Concordia (UCEG = Uhrenfabrik Concordia Eingetragnene Genossenschaft), one of the "children" companies of GB in Freiburg that was started by ex-employees of Gustav Becker and operated from mid-1881 to June 22 1899 when it and four other companies were merged with GB. Based on the serial number this movement was made in 1889 using my Concordia database info for dating. Here is a better photo of the actual logo:
    68950 Mvmt Logo-SN.jpg So, what you have is a marriage, although the only part of it that seems "not" to be by Concordia is the dial, which has a much later (c. 1907) GB dial logo. The hands are correct for Concordia although it appears the "tail" of the minute hand has been broken off. Here is one that is complete; Concordia used this distinctive design for most of their clocks:
    38558 Dial.jpg
    Your case is likely one that was made in the Black Forest and for which many traders, dealers, etc., would buy the cases and then buy complete movements with dials, weights, and pendulum and install those in the cases. GB did offer this type of case as well, there were many illustrated in some of their sale catalogs. They also sold "Lose Uhrwerk" (loose movements) for such purpose but all of them were stamped clearly with a GB logo and serial number. Actually most of the German makers did the same, some such as Carl Werner made this a major part of their business, supplying movements with or without the dials, pendulum, and weights to anyone who would buy them. They even stamped the purchaser's own logo on many of them.

    It's unfortunate that the clock was offered as a genuine GB, based solely (I presume) on the dial logo and without bothering to do research on the movement logo. Even so it's an interesting clock.
     
  9. John Hubby

    John Hubby Principal Administrator
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    #2809 John Hubby, Dec 5, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2017
    Vin, thanks for posting. I just realized this is the same clock for which the meaning of what was inscribed on the plaque was being discussed. Two very important things regarding dating can be found with your clock. First is that it could not have been made later than April 1, 1926 (1.4.1926) when it was presented, nor could it have been made before May 1925. The reason it could not have been made earlier is that GB changed their logos and information stamped on their "Amerikaner" style movements in that month, and your movement has the exact info they used after that date. The "H" on the back of the movement is for "Hohltreiben" which is German for lantern pinions, and the fancy GB anchor logo is missing the word "SILESIA" stamped below the anchor. That stamping was discontinued in the May 1925 changeover.

    Thus, your clock must have been made between May 1925 and probably no later than January of 1926 allowing for transit from the factory to the retailer, etc. Actually, there may be a manufacturing date stamped on the movement. IF there it will be located at the upper right corner of the movement FRONT plate, so to see it you will have to remove the dial or use a dentist mirror with a strong light to see what is on the front of the movement in that position. It will likely be a number and letter combination, such as "k 25" which would indicate November 1925.

    The case style looks very similar to GB box clocks of the 1920s, there likely would have been a small crown that fit into a slot cut in the top front molding of the case, or dowel holes in the same location. I could not find the exact case design in the 1924 or 1926 GB catalogs but that is not unusual since GB didn't publish every single model they made in any given catalog.
     
  10. vin

    vin Registered User

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    john, thanks for that informative reply. will try to look for that characters located in upper right corner of the front plate and will search in google again for the right crown.thanks again for you time ☺
     
  11. waqar

    waqar New Member

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    hi John as per your information the logo on my machine looks like 1914-1934, but still i am not sure as there are three similar looking logos on your description post,
    and i could not find any serial number as well it says only P 18, H.

    706f1623-0aee-48aa-b831-c47dce0e4fa4.jpg 40ff3ee6-88e6-4efd-acaa-6a446c8f3ef8.jpg
     
  12. gintarasb64

    gintarasb64 Registered User

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    Sharing my 2 weight Gustav Becker clock. Simple case but really elegant :) I think that year of production is 1906?
    Best regards
    Gintaras

    20171206_212101.jpg 20171203_142852.jpg 20171203_142906.jpg 20171203_142915.jpg 20171203_181020.jpg 20171203_181026.jpg 20171206_213539.jpg 20171206_213552.jpg 20171206_213601.jpg
     
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  13. KurtinSA

    KurtinSA Registered User
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    Looks like the production is mid-year 1907.

    Kurt
     
  14. John Hubby

    John Hubby Principal Administrator
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    Waqar, welcome to the NAWCC Message Board! Thanks for posting your inquiry and the photos of your GB movement. Based on the stampings and the logo, this one was made after May 1925 and before the end of 1932. If you can look at the front of the movement as I mentioned above to Vin, you may find a manufacturing date stamp at the upper right corner of the front plate. That would confirm the actual date it was made. Also, if you could post photos of the case of your clock from the front that would help to identify when it was made based on the design of the case.
     
  15. John Hubby

    John Hubby Principal Administrator
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    Gintaras, thanks for posting the photos of your GB clock. Kurt's dating is correct, and you have a very attractive architectural style Vienna regulator case. It is a little unusual to find oak cases but they do show up more with this style than with other designs.

    I would appreciate if you could post photos of the movement support bracket and gong. Also, a closeup "without flash" of the GB logo on your dial. It appears to be consistent with others of this age but I can't see any detail in the photos you have already posted.
     
  16. dgmcrm

    dgmcrm Registered User
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    #2816 dgmcrm, Dec 6, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 7, 2017
    John, thank you for your good information. So now I need to find a dial from the UCEG period to be correct? I think I can come up with a minute hand that is not broken off.
     
  17. roughbarked

    roughbarked Registered User

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    #2817 roughbarked, Dec 6, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2017
    I posted this clock a little further back. This is it again, being checked before recasing. Part of this job required cutting a new hole in the mainspring for the hook.

    PC060252.JPG PC060255.JPG PC060256.JPG
     
  18. roughbarked

    roughbarked Registered User

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    I also shifted the oddly place guard pin and set it in beat properly. It needed some bushing, not all. Don't criticise my S pins. I'll do those better before I hand the clock back. I also put a new glass in. Photos won't be possible until tomorrow at the earliest. In the above photos I have finally included the hands and pendulum along with the strike gong temporarily fitted.
     
  19. Steven Thornberry

    Steven Thornberry User Administrator
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    If I were to translate "gewidmet von," I would say "dedicated (or given) by." "Abteilung Stade" may refer a district in Lower Saxony, part of the Hamburg metropolitan area.
     
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  20. gintarasb64

    gintarasb64 Registered User

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  21. Dave T

    Dave T Registered User
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    Here is my first and only Gustav Becker Beehive. She's old, dirty and needs a little love. But, I just unpacked it, and so far I'm pleased. Re-hung the pendulum, set it out on the dining room table and it immediately starting working. Sounds so quiet, sound reminds me more of a pocket watch than a clock.
    Anyway, here's the pictures from the listing. Couldn't tell what the serial number was until I opened it. 2345078. Would that put it around 1924 - 1925?
    Gustav Becker Beehive 1 2345078.jpg Gustav Becker Beehive 11.jpg Gustav Becker Beehive 10.jpg Gustav Becker Beehive 9.jpg Gustav Becker Beehive 8.jpg Gustav Becker Beehive 7.jpg Gustav Becker Beehive 6.jpg Gustav Becker Beehive 5.jpg Gustav Becker Beehive 4.jpg Gustav Becker Beehive 3.jpg Gustav Becker Beehive 2.jpg Gustav Becker Beehive 1.jpg Gustav Becker Beehive.jpg
     
  22. KurtinSA

    KurtinSA Registered User
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    The date would more like the latter part of 1918.

    Kurt
     
  23. Dave T

    Dave T Registered User
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    Yea, you're right. Thanks to John Hubby's files. When I bought this I was wondering what to do about the dial. But after I cleaned the front door glass, it looks a little better! According to that sales slip it was sold in Chicago in 1945 for $25. Probably hasn't been cleaned since!
    Gustav Becker cleaned the front door glass 1.jpg
     
  24. John Hubby

    John Hubby Principal Administrator
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    Dave, thanks for the info and posting the photos of your GB clock. Kurt posted the correct date, which some say isn't probable due to the war. However, from my data it appears that GB didn't completely shut down their production of clocks for the civilian market during the war except for their 400-Day clocks that stopped about mid-1916 and didn't resume until 2nd half 1919. Westminster clocks were made right through the war and even exported to the U.S. and England. Your clock in particular was made for the Kuehl Clock Co. of Chicago, who also kept offices open in Germany right through the war.

    Your case design was used from around 1911 to the late 1920s with some variations such as additional decor and trim, different feet, etc. There are similar lancet-shape clocks in their 1912 and 1924 catalogs but not this exact one in those or later catalogs. It is rather plain but when cleaned and polished has a nice rich mahogany color. With regard to the dial, I might try removing the subsidiary dial rings and chapter ring, then use a soft sponge with a little Goddard's Silver Dip to lightly clean the dial plate. That is a clear liquid and you should use latex gloves to prevent direct contact with your skin. This should be done next to a sink where you can quickly rinse the dial with very hot water. The subsidiary dial for setting the slow-fast rate could also be given that treatment but I think the chapter ring and Chime-Silent subsidiary dial can stay as they are.
     
  25. Dave T

    Dave T Registered User
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    #2825 Dave T, Dec 14, 2017 at 9:57 AM
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2017 at 10:40 AM
    Thank you John, You must have been reading my mind. I was going to ask how best to go about cleaning the dial. When I bought it the pictures indicated (to me) that the dial is in worse condition than I think it really is. But it definitely needs to be cleaned. I removed a lot of brown (tobacco?) residue on the glass and suspect the dial has some as well. I was considering using a little cream of tartar paste. Good idea or not?
    Gustav Becker Beehive dial.jpg
     
  26. John Hubby

    John Hubby Principal Administrator
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    I’ve also used Cream of Tartar, found that the Goddard’s Silver Dip was easier and maybe a little more effective. The Cream of Tartar should be very thin and soupy so you don’t get any abrasive action, same rinsing procedure as for the Silver Dip. Don’t leave the cleaner on it very long and use a lot of water to quickly rinse it off.
     
  27. Dave T

    Dave T Registered User
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    Thanks John, I've got cream of tartar and have used it with some success on an old worn Ingraham dial, but would have to order the Goddard's. I'll gently test the cream of tartar first.
     
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